Has ESC been a success in avoiding deer?

*knock on wood*

There has been a distinct lack of "crashed viper" pics/stories since the car went into production (sans the SRT engineer that hit the guard rail in a preproduction model). Granted, only 500 moved off show room floors to date... (I've counted 3 crashed C7's on corvetteforum in the last two weeks).

Has it helped tame the beast on the road?

Personally, I think there have been 2-3 instances where without it, I would have ended up in a ditch and I wasn't even giving it much of a go. It has helped me learn the limits of the car with a gentle reminder, the car still wants to ****** you.

Drive safe.

I'd be curious to see how often people coming up from older gens see the "oh crap" light come on. Wonder if drivers will start getting more complacent and relying on the ESC as opposed to being more attentive in the old cars where you don't get much time to react. Either way, these cars shouldn't be driven to their limits on public roads, I'll can attest to that first hand. If anything the ESC is nice because it can probably offer a lot more peace of mind when driving in non-optimal conditions (ie rain, cold, etc.).

I've just felt the rear wiggle a bit a few times and the ESC light flashed. Nothing aggressive other than cold tires. More than anything when I first got the car.

I'd love to hear from older gen owners as well...

It is a worry of mine "knowing" it is there, but I think - at least to me, it has sort of been a gentile reminder that there is an easy limit to reach.

I agree that it really is a good idea in the long run. The old cars were like handing someone a gun without a safety and saying "have fun". The new car is still a gun and can hurt you, but ultimately it's the person behind the wheel that will pull the trigger. I'm pretty sure I would have put a Vette in the field/ditch off an on-off ramp if it weren't for ESC kicking in. Never hurts to eat a little humble pie from time to time. It's usually less expensive than body work, lol.

I think you can still get hurt in a Gen V if you aren't careful and/or don't know what you're doing at the limits. There are some scenarios where the car will bite. One is lift throttle oversteer (i.e., if you get into a corner too hot and lift to scrub speed). It's odd because the speed and degree of rotation is about the same as in a 911 cup car. Generally front engined cars don't rotate that quickly in this scenario.

The other thing to consider is that ESC is a computer program and it cannot anticipate everything the driver will do. Some actions may just be too stupid for the programmers to have considered. For example, several years ago I was driving home from the kart track in a Mercedes S65 with really intrusive traction control that intervened with the slightest wheel spin or yaw (and it couldn't be turned off). So just for laughs, I threw it sideways into a hairpin turn at much too high a speed, figuring the traction control would kill the fun. The traction control did absolutely nothing. I was all on my own. Fortunately I was able to react in time. But I've been racing for a very long time. Had I done this before racing I would have ended up so far into the weeds it would have taken a day to find my way back to the road.

P.S. Yes, in hindsight, it was really stupid and I haven't done it again since.

I gave my system an intense workout 2 weeks ago, when doing laps at MSR.... in the rain. ABS, ESC, all of it - were working overtime. I still had to drive the car and keep from going off, but the systems did kick in several times during those laps. Once I had learned the limits of them on the dry course later that day, I was able to drive the car without triggering anything. I did let out a drift at 120ish mph and ESC was like "you are on your own with this one, pal". I went way too hot into a long sweeping curve at the end of a straight. I'd compare the system functionality to my previous C6Z06, it wasn't intrusive. It still allowed you to do stupid things.

PilotaX said:

I think you can still get hurt in a Gen V if you aren't careful and/or don't know what you're doing at the limits. There are some scenarios where the car will bite. One is lift throttle oversteer (i.e., if you get into a corner too hot and lift to scrub speed). It's odd because the speed and degree of rotation is about the same as in a 911 cup car. Generally front engined cars don't rotate that quickly in this scenario.

The other thing to consider is that ESC is a computer program and it cannot anticipate everything the driver will do. Some actions may just be too stupid for the programmers to have considered. For example, several years ago I was driving home from the kart track in a Mercedes S65 with really intrusive traction control that intervened with the slightest wheel spin or yaw (and it couldn't be turned off). So just for laughs, I threw it sideways into a hairpin turn at much too high a speed, figuring the traction control would kill the fun. The traction control did absolutely nothing. I was all on my own. Fortunately I was able to react in time. But I've been racing for a very long time. Had I done this before racing I would have ended up so far into the weeds it would have taken a day to find my way back to the road.

P.S. Yes, in hindsight, it was really stupid and I haven't done it again since.

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Without a doubt!

I think with pretty standard street driving it will prevent you from getting too stupid. Once you start to approach anything other than that, you are on your own (from what I've read).

Which, IMHO is great. But yeah, no replacement for not driving like a ******* on the open street!

Nine Ball said:

I gave my system an intense workout 2 weeks ago, when doing laps at MSR.... in the rain. ABS, ESC, all of it - were working overtime. I still had to drive the car and keep from going off, but the systems did kick in several times during those laps. Once I had learned the limits of them on the dry course later that day, I was able to drive the car without triggering anything. I did let out a drift at 120ish mph and ESC was like "you are on your own with this one, pal". I went way too hot into a long sweeping curve at the end of a straight. I'd compare the system functionality to my previous C6Z06, it wasn't intrusive. It still allowed you to do stupid things.

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I'd be curious to see where ESC basically is useless in the "performance curve" - at what point it can no longer truly function as intended.

I think ESC is capable when you creep up on limits, but not when you just try to bury your foot and expect it to catch you. It's one thing to take a turn on the limit and push just a little bit harder (what I did in the Vette), it's another to bury your foot mid-corner and expect it to stop you. Think of it like ABS. Just because it keeps your tires from locking doesn't mean you can miraculously stop in half the distance. It just helps try to keep the car in as much control as physics might allow (depending on how aggressive it acts). No amount of computers will defy physics.

ViperSmith said:

Without a doubt!

Which, IMHO is great. But yeah, no replacement for not driving like a ******* on the open street!

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LOL. You are absolutely right about that! And you made my point better than I did I think.

FWIW, Anot driving like a ******* on the track is also a good thing. Particularly in a Viper. I'll be honest, I'm not nearly as enthused about instructing these days now that we have to ride with students. My sole Viper club student was a good student and gradually inched up to the line. But some from other clubs have been downright frightening.

ViperSmith said:

I've just felt the rear wiggle a bit a few times and the ESC light flashed. Nothing aggressive other than cold tires. More than anything when I first got the car.

I'd love to hear from older gen owners as well...

It is a worry of mine "knowing" it is there, but I think - at least to me, it has sort of been a gentile reminder that there is an easy limit to reach.

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Same situation in my 2003 with PS2s. I just know that it's probably gonna happen, so I'm ready. Hopefully, people with ESC wont let the car do their thinking for them. I can get the ESC to kick in in my 425 hp SRT8, so I cant imagine a Gen 5!

With all of this being said, would you say despite the shorter gears and more power, this is an easier Viper to drive not at its limits, but easier to drive in general?

It drives identical to my Gen 3. Steering, braking, pedal placement, blind spots, everything feels like Gen 3-4. No difference in drivability. The creature comforts and nicer interior do make the commute more enjoyable, however. The only real improvement in terms of drivability is when you are in reverse, due to the very nice rearview camera

Nine Ball said:

It drives identical to my Gen 3. Steering, braking, pedal placement, blind spots, everything feels like Gen 3-4. No difference in drivability. The creature comforts and nicer interior do make the commute more enjoyable, however. The only real improvement in terms of drivability is when you are in reverse, due to the very nice rearview camera

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That's why you have loud exhaust. Just give it a few blips to let people know you're moving. Up to them to get out of the way

Just throwing this out there again - ESC = electronic stability control, which is something you get on AWD cars. Involves feeding data from accelerometers and yaw sensors to the ECU, which then adjusts the torque transfer among the wheels in an effort to keep the car going in the direction the driver wants it to VS the way physics is forcing it to go. It may also activate brakes on individual wheels to stabilize the car.

What we have on the Gen 5 is TCS - traction control system, which attempts to keep the rear end planted by moderating the torque to the rear wheels when wheel slip is detected during acceleration. It's really only active during acceleration, and this is important to know.

TCS is a great feature to have on the Viper but I think everyone should be aware that it does not compensate for sudden turns or swerves, such as avoiding wildlife on the road. It's not like a GT-R or Evo, which both have ESC programs (in addition to TCS) that can help you maintain control of the car and even recover from a slide due to such an event. If you swerve in the viper and lose it, you're going wherever Netwon's laws dictate.

That is incorrect. The Gen V has both ESC and TCS. First time for both systems in a Viper. Get the car out on a road course, and push the limits in a turn, and you'll feel it trying to manipulate the car. I found the Gen V easier to push the limits of, compared to my Gen 3. The Gen 3 hits that limit quickly, resulting in a spun-out car. Gen V gave better warnings of those limits, with ESC on.

http://blog.chryslergroupllc.com/blog.do;jsessionid=FE38C8ECA65DA13199AF133411492E18?p=entry&id=2162

My mistake - the Viper does have ESC. Good to know...but it's implemented exclusively through the brakes...so it helps with getting around a track but it's still not going to be as effective as a more advanced system in an AWD vehicle, which can recover from more serious loss-of-control conditions.

My point still remains, and that is not to expect these systems to counter physics for you...if you're driving in an area where you know there's a high chance that deer or other animals will be on the road then slowing down is a better bet than hoping your ESC allows you to recover from a swerve going 90+ MPH.

Would be nice to know just how far sideways you can actually be in the Viper and still expect the ESC to save your.

It isn't very intrusive, at all. You do hear the brakes clicking, sort of like ABS, but don't really feel the car shift around much. When I would go too hot into corners and try and recover, the outer front wheel would make the ABS clicking sound, depending on left or right turn. I was able to get the car sideways with a 4-wheel drift at 120ish mph though. It didn't do anything to save that, but I was able to straighten it out. LOL

I think the main difference is that the Gen 3-4 don't let you have any warning of approaching the limits of traction. Those generations make you feel confident with grip, so you continue to push it further. Then you suddenly end up facing the wrong direction, or taking a slight offroad excursion. The Gen V ESC system let me know that I was approaching the limit, so it served as a good indicator/warning. If you wanted to push it further, it wouldn't save you. C6Z06 system behaved pretty similar, making them easier to track. The Gen V is more capable around the track with this system.

I caught the sound (had external mic under the hood) on my video, listen to the noise at 2:36 as I enter a corner too hot. That is what ESC stepping in sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lFhGhfXRGQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UUrETiHfxlI0Igei04hd1KVQ

Nine Ball said:

I gave my system an intense workout 2 weeks ago, when doing laps at MSR.... in the rain. ABS, ESC, all of it - were working overtime. I still had to drive the car and keep from going off, but the systems did kick in several times during those laps. Once I had learned the limits of them on the dry course later that day, I was able to drive the car without triggering anything. I did let out a drift at 120ish mph and ESC was like "you are on your own with this one, pal". I went way too hot into a long sweeping curve at the end of a straight. I'd compare the system functionality to my previous C6Z06, it wasn't intrusive. It still allowed you to do stupid things.

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thanks for the fine info