Will SRT's Marketing Department Kill the Viper Brand?

GTS-R 001 said:

I've bought 12 Viper, test drove 0 of them, sat in 0 of them

That said, you can't expect t steal customers away from Porsche (who let you take anything under $200K for a test drive) without a sit in and a drive.

Click to expand...

As much as I like the 911s, the test drives are easy because they have 6 cylinder motors that are in the wrong place with an absolutely useless trunk that's also in the wrong place. Porsche owners are used to that and probably think the Viper motors are in the wrong place with rear trunks that have more space then they know what to do with. They are also intimidated by the ridiculously montrous grins the Vipers wear on their front ends. LOL!

I don't know what the SRT marketing people were thinking with the pricing and conquest sales but if they did surveys with these German and Italian car owners, I think the survey takers were less than forthright or there was too much distortion in the questions and "reading in between the lines" to where the SRT folks were able to fool themselves with the pricing. The only conquests sales the Viper can get realistically are Corvette buyers IMHO. The remaining market are Viper owners, ex-Viper owners, and those wanting to be Viper owners that are able to afford them. I can't see the best Viper being over $125K. And that's a stretch given the ZR1 sales were heavily discounted from those prices. I hate to see the Viper languishing on the floor (a little early yet to pronounce demise) because we may see it die again. It's why I wanted to see higher production numbers so that the prices could be significantly lower and we could enjoy better dealer and aftermarket support.

GTS-R 001 said:

I've bought 12 Viper, test drove 0 of them, sat in 0 of them

That said, you can't expect t steal customers away from Porsche (who let you take anything under $200K for a test drive) without a sit in and a drive.

Click to expand...

But thats the rub. You wanted one and had to have one.

I didn't test my Gen V before I bought it. I hadn't even seen one in person when I ordered it. I hadn't ever driven a car with over 300HP in it before...

But, people like us aren't the norm. When I originally canceled my Gen V order, I looked at GT-Rs. They wouldn't let me in one, so I passed. Porsche threw me the keys to a $125,000 991 without even taking my DL. I would have bought it, but I wasn't totally sold...

If you are someone that can afford the Viper, drop by a Dodge passing by, and can't even get in the car - sorry but you aren't going to land that sale. It is a much bigger problem.

ViperSmith said:

But thats the rub. You wanted one and had to have one.

I didn't test my Gen V before I bought it. I hadn't even seen one in person when I ordered it. I hadn't ever driven a car with over 300HP in it before...

But, people like us aren't the norm. When I originally canceled my Gen V order, I looked at GT-Rs. They wouldn't let me in one, so I passed. Porsche threw me the keys to a $125,000 991 without even taking my DL. I would have bought it, but I wasn't totally sold...

If you are someone that can afford the Viper, drop by a Dodge passing by, and can't even get in the car - sorry but you aren't going to land that sale. It is a much bigger problem.

Click to expand...

I now that when ever I bought a Viper from a dealership, Willowbrook in BC, GAstman at Roanoke, (Forget the Name) at Folsom Dodge, (Forget the Name) at St. Albert Dodge, I dealt with the owner/manager, to expect a sales person, (no matter what your history with the dealership) to let you into the car that cost the dealership 15 Darts worth of capital that the owner has told them "to not let anyone in of they are fired" is just un realistic, the Viper is known to bite a lot of drivers.

There is a dealership in Petaluma CA, where the sales manager decided to show a buyer what his new 2008 SSG coupe could do. The manager wrote the car off in 35' and 4 seconds by giving it too much gas and hitting a telephone pole across the street from the dealership, nuff said.

I am sure that any one of the top Viper dealers would let you test something if they "knew you" and were there to make the call at the time.

But this doesn;t help Dodge sell cars to the crowd that expect to have a dealer sell them a car like they are used to at the Porsche dealership (though try to get a test drive in a 918 or the Carrera GT, WON'T HAPPEN' no matter who you are.

So what's the answer then?!?...Should Dodge now include Vipers in the SRT Track Experience?

Or should SRT allot Vipers to Authorized dealerships for test drives ?

Or should SRT start making commercials for the Viper and have them sold in Ferrari dealerships?..



PS: Kuddos to Hemotoxic....Great job on the screen play....

Read your last 48 posts, if they do not define you as a hater, nothing will. I will take a page from Freud's underpinnings and say that low self esteem drives you to post, through introspection you then believe you will be viewed as all powerful and all knowledgeable. I have looked at your posts and there is nothing tangible or meaningful, just garbage. I am guessing at the truth, but, would guess one day you were at WOT in your civic or fusion and a viper came flying by you, therefore, the hate.

Goodbye, hammerofthefools

hammerofgods said:

If I am a hater, what does that make you? A freedom fighter? How can I drive new Viper if nobody is even allowed to sit in one? But yes, driving the car would alleviate any issues related to its design, just gotta buy one first to find out.

Click to expand...

Jog said:

So what's the answer then?!?...Should Dodge now include Vipers in the SRT Track Experience?

Or should SRT allot Vipers to Authorized dealerships for test drives ?

Or should SRT start making commercials for the Viper and have them sold in Ferrari dealerships?..



PS: Kuddos to Hemotoxic....Great job on the screen play....

Click to expand...

I know for a fact that SRT was presented with this problem and solutions to this problem in 2012. They categorically refused the solutions and didn't even acknowledge there was a problem or that there would be a problem. It leads me to believe that SRT marketing has drank to much of their own kool-aid. They actually think the Viper is the best car in the world and needs no introduction, marketing, or support. That's what owner are supposed to believe, but don't. The roles are reversed, hence the catastrophic problem.

GTS-R 001 said:

I now that when ever I bought a Viper from a dealership, Willowbrook in BC, GAstman at Roanoke, (Forget the Name) at Folsom Dodge, (Forget the Name) at St. Albert Dodge, I dealt with the owner/manager, to expect a sales person, (no matter what your history with the dealership) to let you into the car that cost the dealership 15 Darts worth of capital that the owner has told them "to not let anyone in of they are fired" is just un realistic, the Viper is known to bite a lot of drivers.

There is a dealership in Petaluma CA, where the sales manager decided to show a buyer what his new 2008 SSG coupe could do. The manager wrote the car off in 35' and 4 seconds by giving it too much gas and hitting a telephone pole across the street from the dealership, nuff said.

I am sure that any one of the top Viper dealers would let you test something if they "knew you" and were there to make the call at the time.

But this doesn;t help Dodge sell cars to the crowd that expect to have a dealer sell them a car like they are used to at the Porsche dealership (though try to get a test drive in a 918 or the Carrera GT, WON'T HAPPEN' no matter who you are.

Click to expand...

The car buyers have insurance. If they wreck the car, it gets paid for. It is a silly, old excuse. Add ESC and Traction control and the car is pretty manageable. It is a $100,000 Dodge, lets get real.

And incorrect on the 918. One of my mentors was flown out by Porsche to have a go in a 918, he is getting the P1 instead.

Read no.49 then. I post due to interest in cars, being very partial to Viper. Perhaps you should take another page from Freud or more aptly, Carl Yung and get to the bottom of your own reaction to opinions different than yours. I sincerely hope you will gain some courage to face your own insecurities and apparent low self esteem and spend your time in more constructive way than attacking other posters. I am willing to bet that should these discussions be more constructive, the car may improve and survive. Alternatively, you are always welcome to simply ignore points of view that differ from your own.

Jack B said:

Read your last 48 posts, if they do not define you as a hater, nothing will. I will take a page from Freud's underpinnings and say that low self esteem drives you to post, through introspection you then believe you will be viewed as all powerful and all knowledgeable. I have looked at your posts and there is nothing tangible or meaningful, just garbage. I am guessing at the truth, but, would guess one day you were at WOT in your civic or fusion and a viper came flying by you, therefore, the hate.

Goodbye, hammerofthefools

Click to expand...

Jack B and hammerofgods, I don't want this thread to get off topic. I don't know either of you, but I do believe you are both Viper enthusiasts. I think many of us here are frustrated about the direction (or lack thereof) Viper is headed. Let's not take it out on each other

ViperSmith said:

One of my mentors was flown out by Porsche to have a go in a 918, he is getting the P1 instead.

Click to expand...

Wow! Who is your mentor?! Can I have a ride in the P1 when he gets it? Now that is a car that doesn't need any marketing!! Arguably, the best car on the planet right now. Great heir and successor to the F1.

Agreed. SRT as a brand is non existent. In reality, the same dealerships and sales people who cater to mini van and truck crowds, sell Viper. When Viper sits on the showroom floor next to a mini van, with families shopping and kids getting around, it is not difficult to understand why the cars are locked up. Shopping for Viper is not the same type of experience you get when shopping for Jaguar/Land Rover, Porsche or BMW. No matter how much the Viper costs, you still deal with the same people who sell 20k cargenes to make living. If there are exceptions, this only further supports the general rule. This is why dealerships selling high end cars do not lock their vehicles and why you can test drive the cars.

theviper said:

I know for a fact that SRT was presented with this problem and solutions to this problem in 2012. They categorically refused the solutions and didn't even acknowledge there was a problem or that there would be a problem. It leads me to believe that SRT marketing has drank to much of their own kool-aid. They actually think the Viper is the best car in the world and needs no introduction, marketing, or support. That's what owner are supposed to believe, but don't. The roles are reversed, hence the catastrophic problem.

Click to expand...

hammerofgods said:

Agreed. SRT as a brand is non existent. In reality, the same dealerships and sales people who cater to mini van and truck crowds, sell Viper. When Viper sits on the showroom floor next to a mini van, with families shopping and kids getting around, it is not difficult to understand why the cars are locked up. Shopping for Viper is not the same type of experience you get when shopping for Jaguar/Land Rover, Porsche or BMW. No matter how much the Viper costs, you still deal with the same people who sell 20k cargenes to make living. If there are exceptions, this only further supports the general rule. This is why dealerships selling high end cars do not lock their vehicles and why you can test drive the cars.

Click to expand...

Did you ever try buying a Ford GT? It is the exact same experience as buying a Viper.

VRYALT3R3D said:

Did you ever try buying a Ford GT? It is the exact same experience as buying a Viper.

Click to expand...

No, I have not but if my experience with SVT signifies anything, I bet it would be considerably worse, although I had no problem with sitting in a car.

The Gen 5 is the best Viper yet, no doubt. Is the Gen 5 the best car for the money? If you have a solid product priced at a rate the market will bear, you will create demand which translates into sales. A product needs good marketing to gain customer base, marketing needs a good car to gain customer base. Dodge brass will ultimately breath new life into the program or kill it. One thing we all agree is that it can't go much longer at the status quo.

I don't care what anyone says. Higher educated people will not subject themselves to a brand unprepared to treat them like a king. Hell when I bought my first viper locally with cash in 98 I was treated like crap before, during and after the purchase. Place has been dead to me for 15 years and I'm sure there are other buyers also in the same train of thought. I don't care how much you polish a **** or cover it with lipstick, it still is a ****. I would be interested in seeing the number of new buyer sales to previous Viper owners sales.

Hoosier Daddy:3225899 said:

I don't care what anyone says. Higher educated people will not subject themselves to a brand unprepared to treat them like a king. Hell when I bought my first viper locally with cash in 98 I was treated like crap before, during and after the purchase. Place has been dead to me for 15 years and I'm sure there are other buyers also in the same train of thought. I don't care how much you polish a **** or cover it with lipstick, it still is a ****. I would be interested in seeing the number of new buyer sales to previous Viper owners sales.

Click to expand...

Any other car buying experience treat you the way you were looking for?

VRYALT3R3D said:

Did you ever try buying a Ford GT? It is the exact same experience as buying a Viper.

Click to expand...

If so, then the fact that Gen 5 has sold LESS than 15% of what a Ford GT sold (even thought the GT was priced higher priced last decade) signifies that "SRT, we have a problem".

" Did you ever try buying a Ford GT? It is the exact same experience as buying a Viper. "

BAD EXAMPLE!!!...Or perfect example depending on how you look at....The GT wasn't marketed well either..As a matter of fact Ford actually took a loss every time they sold one ( No one was paying 150k for a Ford )...This resulted in the Ford GT becoming a failure as introduction into the exotic sports car realm...But luckily it was still able to survive as a collectors piece..

Take a look on both this forum and the G2 forum you will find hundreds of constructive posts from yours truly. I do not see anything from you but 49 posts ******** about a car you will never own.

hammerofgods said:

Read no.49 then. I post due to interest in cars, being very partial to Viper. Perhaps you should take another page from Freud or more aptly, Carl Yung and get to the bottom of your own reaction to opinions different than yours. I sincerely hope you will gain some courage to face your own insecurities and apparent low self esteem and spend your time in more constructive way than attacking other posters. I am willing to bet that should these discussions be more constructive, the car may improve and survive. Alternatively, you are always welcome to simply ignore points of view that differ from your own.

Click to expand...

You are off course we are not cut from the same cloth, far from it. What do you make of close to fifty posts with zero content, basically all contain negative content. What makes it worse this all comes from a zero knowledge base.

theviper said:

Jack B and hammerofgods, I don't want this thread to get off topic. I don't know either of you, but I do believe you are both Viper enthusiasts. I think many of us here are frustrated about the direction (or lack thereof) Viper is headed. Let's not take it out on each other

Click to expand...

Jack B said:

Take a look on both this forum and the G2 forum you will find hundreds of constructive posts from yours truly. I do not see anything from you but 49 posts ******** about a car you will never own.

Click to expand...

You may want to start living by your own words and finally start talking cars instead of spending your time dispensing psychological profiles, writing critiques, personal attacks and B&M. Very insightful explanation why Viper became so stale.

Jack B said:

You are off course we are not cut from the same cloth, far from it. What do you make of close to fifty posts with zero content, basically all contain negative content. What makes it worse this all comes from a zero knowledge base.

Click to expand...

Well Jack, thanks for making it apparent who is the ass here. Please stop posting in the thread I created.

SRT has major problems and, despite your random comments about "zero knowledge base", I actually have some pretty deep insight into the problems. The question is not if there is a problem. The question is will the Viper be killed off because of simple stupidity from SRT marketing. If you have nothing to contribute, please post your random thoughts somewhere else.

The only person on this thread full of hate is the ususal suspect Jack B. Its a discussion forum for goodness sake.

Anyway, none that matters. He wont have something to rabidly defend if SRT keeps its head in the sand like they are doing. At what depth does SRT need to fall before someone there realizes they need to do a 180 with their approach to marketing this car? There are many good ideas being discussed on these boards by a wide range of posters both owners and non-owners. Focus on that instead of trying to be a wanna be head shrink.

This car has always elicited emotions from people. And I think its great that so many are passionate about it and are very concerned for its survival. Thats what I see from a lot of these so-called "hater" posts. If a lot of us didnt care about the car enough to question SRT's botched handling and even offering solutions then this car would be truly dead because no one cares about it but a small minority of ownership. Needless to say we have a lot of frustrated folks posting lol. SRT is tearing this board apart.

Some observations and all objective:

1. All the haters are now together on one thread.
.
2. Most have a limited number of posts.

3. Most do not own a viper, none own a G5.

4. Most have not contributed one positive post on this forum.

5. The same negative rhetoric is repeated, it is like ground hog day.

You are right that is a lot to love.




.

hammerofgods said:

You may want to start living by your own words and finally start talking cars instead of spending your time dispensing psychologsshical profiles, writing critiques, personal attacks and B&M. Very insightful explanation why Viper became so stale.

Click to expand...

To further Jack's list:

6. Viper owners shouldn't have to be accused of "defending", or "justifying their purchase of" any Viper, on a VIPER CLUB website. That is what this site is about, Vipers. The Corvette sites treat Gen V owners better, and that is a shame.

7. Whenever Gen V owners post about their feedback on the actual ownership of the cars, or quirks, or issues, the anti-Gen V hater brigade shows up to piss all over the thread. Instead of thanking them for sharing feedback, they choose to use the info to fan their flames.

8. On this forum, it seems the Viper crowd has been more scathing about SRT and the Gen V, than Motor Trend has. It is no wonder that SRT doesn't want to participate or be associated with the VCA. Would you? Constructive criticism is welcome, but rare here. The same group of haters keep beating the same drum.

9. If the Viper were to end production today, I'd lay about 50% on the marketing failure. The other 50% on the negative anti-SRT and anti-Gen V discussions that seem to happen in every single thread within the Gen V forum. When is enough, enough?

Nine Ball said:

9. If the Viper were to end production today, I'd lay about 50% on the marketing failure. The other 50% on the negative anti-SRT and anti-Gen V discussions that seem to happen in every single thread within the Gen V forum. When is enough, enough?

Click to expand...

Nine Ball,

It's not just the VCA GEN V forum. Checkout the following exchange I just read on viperalley:

http://www.viperalley.com/forum/2013-srt-viper-discussion/135162-any-predictions.html

It appears the poor guy joined the forum to get a prediction when his car was going to be available. If I was on the fence about the GEN V and seeking input from either this forum or viperalley, I would run the other direction. This is a Viper enthusiast website, and there is very little love for the GEN V. You don't hear the Mclaren, Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Lexus (etc., etc., etc.) owners whining on their respective websites because their rides were bested by a lowly Viper at Laguna Seca. Many here never recovered from the Motortrend ZR1 comparo.

However, it's not just the Viper related websites. It's the comments on any GEN V related story found on the web. Honestly, I believe many of the trolls who frequent the GEN V forums also seek out any GEN V related story on the web to distribute their drivel. Many just repeat, verbatim, details mentioned in the Motortrend comparos, or issues from previous gen Vipers (i.e. interior, heat, widow-maker etc.). I believe many are pimply-faced teenagers with too much time on their hands who just took time away from Forza Motorsports to post on a review they didn't take the time to read.

Is the GEN V perfect? NO! Has SRT made mistakes? YES! The Viper is a niche performance car. It will never truly be the end all be all for every consumer. The Viper program was dead. Frankly, perhaps SRT should have delayed the GEN V program until they had the proper resources in place. Despite that fact, many have admitted the GEN V the best Viper ever. Unfortunately, SRT will never be able to satisfy everyone, but I don't believe it's time to throw dirt on the GEN V, yet.

The Alley is pure garbage when it comes to the Gen V.

SnakeBitten said:

The only person on this thread full of hate is the ususal suspect Jack B. Its a discussion forum for goodness sake.

Anyway, none that matters. He wont have something to rabidly defend if SRT keeps its head in the sand like they are doing. At what depth does SRT need to fall before someone there realizes they need to do a 180 with their approach to marketing this car? There are many good ideas being discussed on these boards by a wide range of posters both owners and non-owners. Focus on that instead of trying to be a wanna be head shrink.

This car has always elicited emotions from people. And I think its great that so many are passionate about it and are very concerned for its survival. Thats what I see from a lot of these so-called "hater" posts. If a lot of us didnt care about the car enough to question SRT's botched handling and even offering solutions then this car would be truly dead because no one cares about it but a small minority of ownership. Needless to say we have a lot of frustrated folks posting lol. SRT is tearing this board apart.

Click to expand...

How many threads do we need on how bad SRT marketing is? You won't find a single person here who thinks they are doing a good job. We've easily had a dozen so far, every time it rehashes the same things.

But it is going further than that. People are also trashing the car as well which is getting old. I don't waltz into the Gen II forum and tell them their vehicles are piles of garbage, you'd think there would be some two way respect here. But, there isn't. For some reason people need to justify their decisions and come bang on us here.

Sorry, it has gotten quite old.

Even worse are the children who have never owned a Viper coming here and running their mouths.

Why would SRT jump in on Nine Balls thread to help with the issue, considering all the negativity here? It isn't fostering an environment that will get the manufacture involved with owners. The SRT -> VCA link has been severed thanks to events earlier this year, so owners are sort of dangling in the wind. It is a shame, and the "SRT *****" pile on isn't helping, and that is coming from someone who has had a lot of criticism of SRT and isn't happy with how marketing has gone.

I would like to propose the VCA creates a "Complaining about SRT / Gen V" sub-forum, so we have a specific forum for that. Then maybe the Gen V owners and shoppers can use the Gen V forum, as it was intended for. To give feedback about the Gen V, and ask questions about the Gen V.

I've never heard so much complaining about any generation Viper before. They didn't exactly market the Gen 4, either. The magazines didn't exactly love the Gen 4, either - until the ACR came out.

The difference is probably due to the evolution and expansion of the use of social media and smart phones. Twitter and Facebook are a two edged sword. They may broaden the "fan base" but they also increases the speed at which bad data is disseminated and commented on by anyone and everyone. A feeding frenzy of adverse commentary is quite common these days given the anonymous nature of posting and the tendency to write things that would never be said face to face. Many consider this progress. I think it is a Borg like destructive virus on polite society.