v10enomous
Enthusiast
Sure why not? The guy had never ridden in a Viper before and I had the time. Spread the Viper joy.
I would have probably done the same thing
Viper production slowed by one third due to sluggish sales
- Thread starter 46hemi
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I would have probably done the same thing
Here is an interesting article from the Detroit Free Press titled "Viper loses its venom as the 2014 Corvette revs" that was just published:
http://www.freep.com/article/20131028/BUSINESS0103/310280032/Chrysler-Viper-Chevrolet-Corvette
It also states "only 426 have been sold, less than one-tenth the year-to-date sales of the Corvette. Even Tesla’s all-electric Model S, which is in a similar price range as the $100,000 Viper, sold 1,950 in September alone."
"Chrysler spokeswoman Jodi Tinson did not comment on the reasons behind a delayed launch" (Silence is not always golden, Chrysler)
"I don’t think we advertised the car enough,” said Chuck Eddy, a dealer near Youngstown, Ohio, and vice chairman of Chrysler’s national dealer council. “We have a very hot specialty car, and we should utilize it a little bit more in our marketing." (Yes, exactly. Is Chrysler listening??)
http://www.freep.com/article/20131028/BUSINESS0103/310280032/Chrysler-Viper-Chevrolet-Corvette
It also states "only 426 have been sold, less than one-tenth the year-to-date sales of the Corvette. Even Tesla’s all-electric Model S, which is in a similar price range as the $100,000 Viper, sold 1,950 in September alone."
"Chrysler spokeswoman Jodi Tinson did not comment on the reasons behind a delayed launch" (Silence is not always golden, Chrysler)
"I don’t think we advertised the car enough,” said Chuck Eddy, a dealer near Youngstown, Ohio, and vice chairman of Chrysler’s national dealer council. “We have a very hot specialty car, and we should utilize it a little bit more in our marketing." (Yes, exactly. Is Chrysler listening??)
compcoupe21
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Why do they compare the C7 to the Viper? They are not the same category of product and not even close in quality. And that's not to mention that the C7 is a dime a dozen cookie cutter POS. A lot more 300k homes get sold than 5-600k homes as a for instance. They can keep their DI and 285's with the lousy fit/finish and game boy styling, the Gen V annihilates the C7 IMO.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
That article is the least bit interesting.
Yes the tesla is selling more, it is a four door family sedan.
Yes the tesla is selling more, it is a four door family sedan.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Well, considering the naysayers of electric vehicles on this site, and how useless and irrelevant they are, and how high priced they are, they sold quadruple the amount in September alone. I would say its relevant only in fact that its a very niche car at a high price tag like a Viper, but agree that its a totally different purpose. It's interesting nonetheless.
Again, the SRT Viper can be had for ~$100K (some at Tomball), and it has more features, power, and quality than a 2010 model at near the same price. I didn't witness what incentives were on the 2010s, but still, I am not sure why the SRTs aren't flying. If you didn't know about all the GTS stuff, you'd be perfectly happy with the SRT I think. Maybe it is marketing like many are saying. It's true there are huge multi-page Corvette ads like in Motortrend, in thicker stock.
Tesla is a company that has been on taxpayer life support like just about every other 'green' company out there...they've been relying on obama's "green economy" initiative which is little more than a fraud free-for-all full of mostly bankrupt solar and battery companies mixed in with a handful of electric car makers that **** away hundreds of millions of tax dollars.
If you buy a tesla you get either a $7,500 federal tax credit, or in California a $12,500 tax credit; tesla itself gets up to $35K in tax credits for each sale. None of these should exist; but they are stealing some of this money by imposing things like the bogus "gas guzzler" tax on cars like the Viper as well as taxes on fuel itself.
All that tesla sales show is that there are at least 1,900 people who want do not want anyone to have to guess about how stupid they are. The scam-like green economy exists to part morons with their money while providing yet another mechanism for the government to fleece the taxpayer in the process.
Electric cars will not be viable as a replacement for gas-powered cars until batteries have similar power density as chemical fuel, period.
That's all it is - a lack of competent advertising. There is nothing wrong with the Viper or its price. SRT needs to stop pouring their all of their ad dollars into racing and put that most of that money into a national ad campaign. Their "if we build it they will buy" strategy is definitely igniting the bridges they have with dealers who shelled out time and money to have the "privilege" of offering the Viper for sale.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Yeah, I am not arguing the merits of electric cars in general. I think the article was just saying that for such a niche vehicle like a Tesla, and for all the valid arguments you make about them, they still managed to sell almost 2000 of them in September. This was meant I think to emphasize the strange sales figures of Vipers, which on the surface should appeal to many more people.
Hard to say definitively if more advertising will help, but its pretty clear that NO advertising is not the solution. I was at the NYC Comic Con in mid-October, and there was a C7 Corvette on display. Chevy is obviously trying to push after the middle-aged demographic with the new Vette, to lower the average buyer's age from 60. They are thinking outside the proverbial box and it seems to be working. The C6 was basically dead in the water, and its been a big turnaround.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Whoops wrong post
Obviously I am unaware so what 'issues' are you talking about? mechanical??
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
The Tesla niche is far broader, than the niche for the Viper. The Tesla is still a 4-door commuter car, with plenty of style and utility. I can be driven daily, and the fuel economy could justify it. The only niche for the Viper is pulling up to a gathering, and feeling like a badass, and having to fight off the women that want to take a ride.
Your choice.
The take home point of the article IMO is that the Viper is not selling well at all and marketing is the main issue. They are saying that for half the price, the C7 is really going to pose a big problem for the Viper (marketing or not). They are also saying that a niche car, like Tesla, is crushing the Viper in sales. I don't think they are necessarily comparing the cars in terms of performance in this article. Just using examples that the car industry is VERY healthy right now and the Viper is on life support.
Again, this article was from the Detroit Free Press. When your hometown paper is publishing not so positive things, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee! I don't think any of us know if SRT has woken up quite yet (I sincerely hope they have).
Again, this article was from the Detroit Free Press. When your hometown paper is publishing not so positive things, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee! I don't think any of us know if SRT has woken up quite yet (I sincerely hope they have).
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
The Tesla niche is far broader, than the niche for the Viper. The Tesla is still a 4-door commuter car, with plenty of style and utility. I can be driven daily, and the fuel economy could justify it. The only niche for the Viper is pulling up to a gathering, and feeling like a badass, and having to fight off the women that want to take a ride.
Your choice.
I really don't understand why people are confused that a four door family sedan is outselling a gas guzzling 2 door race car.
I mean, it really isn't all that confusing.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Corvette will sell more Corvettes this calendar year than Vipers have have ever been produced.
It is a useless comparison. The C7 is a great car for a great price, but it is quite the same as a Viper. I'd have bought one if I didn't get a Viper, and who knows I may trade my Viper in for a ZR1 when it is out. Well, depending on what it does.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
I compare Corvette to Viper because they race in the same GT class in the American Le mans series, and Corvette has just won this seasons crown.
Well you did ask
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
There are a few things that don't really do it for me on the Gen V (I'm trying to being honest here), On my Gen II, nine times out of ten at car meets and shows I have the hood up to show off the engine. The plastic covers on the new engine are one of the things that don't cut it for me on the Gen V, I know the engine is more refined now and pushes out more power but take a look at this pic I found.
Dose it really get any better than that?
And No, Sadly that's not my Engine
You must be registered for see images
Dose it really get any better than that?
And No, Sadly that's not my Engine
True, but historically, Corvette has sold multiples of 12x/year (2003) to 23x/year (2008) compared to Viper. I didn't count 2009 and 2010 because the economy was so screwy. Based on current projections for yearly sales of Corvette and the actual sales of Viper, the ratio is is an astonishing 70x! That is the point. Viper is getting crushed in relative sales. In 2013, it was due to ridiculously poor marketing and market research. In 2014, it will continue to suffer from that (unless some major changes take place) and the C7 competition (as we are already seeing).
01viper4me
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So you went to look at a Gen5 and wound up taking your own Gen4 for a test drive with the salesman
While I would have done the same thing... it truly is a shame that dealers aren't more like many Viper owners who love sharing the experience of a Viper. I know that this is a "specialty" car and not everyone can handle the car at first go, so I understand to an extent not throwing them the keys to go for a spin. But at least take them for a quick spin around the block. If SRT's goal is to attract Ferrari and Porsche guys, they need to be willing to offer a Ferrari or Porsche level experience at their dealerships. That all being said, at Tom O'Brien Dodge in Indianapolis I had to take my Gen II in for body damage (tire shop missed the jack points and crushed a side sill) and just about every employee was telling me that I had to go check out the two GTS's they had in the showroom. I walked in and was immediately met with a phenomenal staff that was eager to show me the car. Even after telling them I wasn't in the market they still wanted to talk Vipers with me... could just be good ole 'Hoosier' hospitality but I was impressed nonetheless.
Nsane1
Enthusiast
Wait, why aren't we comparing Prius sales here? Goodness guys, Tesla and C7s as comparisons?
You are missing the point. Read the article (and my posts if you wish). The point is, they are making various references about how Viper is hurting...big time...and how the C7 is booming and this electric, expensive car made by a startup called Tesla is booming. The market is strong, sales are near record highs for the auto industry, and random niche cars are selling well. The Viper is not and I think the Detroit Free Press is, in their own way, trying to give a little kick in the butt to their hometown team at SRT.
If people were being heavily subsidized to buy a Viper and Chrysler got a $50K kickback from our blamer-in-chief for selling them, they may sell more. The point is that the Viper is a quality over quantity type of deal and I'm perfectly fine with them selling a few thousand or less each year as long as they make enough to keep the project going. It's about time they let their econo cars and minivans subsidize the existence of the Viper.
I would be willing to bet large sums of money on the notion that a quality ad campaign will allow SRT to hit whatever sales targets they want...and what they seem to be neglecting is the fact that its OK to take a loss up front on advertising expenses to establish and build the brand. That said, they should also revisit their strategies for the SRT dealership experience. They need to do a better job of separating SRT from Dodge at the showroom level.
Yes, and I'm confident that is the only reason it's not selling as well as it could be.
Comparing Tesla's tax-credit inflated sales to the Viper's honest sales is invalid and reasons for this have already been stated. Take away the corporate welfare and pro-electric-car propaganda that Tesla is getting and let's see how well they sell.
The logic that people will buy the Vette over the Viper because it offers similar performance at a lower price is also flawed. If people ONLY cared about the performance to price ratio, they'd all be buying shifter carts. The Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru WRX both offer high levels of track performance at half the price of the Vette...but you'll be driving around in an econobox with wings.
People here really need to stop trying to gauge the Viper's sales performance by comparing it to lesser cars - people buying "toy" cars buy the one they want AND can afford. If you ask people which car they'd rather have, price being no object, do you think most people are going to choose the C7 over the Viper? Hell no! By the same logic - the Viper was able to compete with a $300K Mercedes and stay within a few tenths of a second - does that mean that people should forgo buying the Mercedes and get the Viper instead? Again, no. They'll buy what they WANT. For people buying cars like this, cost/value is not the primary criteria of most shoppers even if they use that on the forums to justify their purchase of a cheaper car vs the one they'd really like to have.
That's how the Gen 5 engine bay should look...and even though it doesn't, it wouldn't cost a lot to dress it up if you like to show it off.
To SRT: I would have paid a grand or two extra to have an engine bay that looks like that picture...although in my opinion that should have been a standard feature.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Believe the SRT engineers used the plastic covers for the reason most every other manufacturer is using them now. They insulate stray electrical signals from components, reduce component tapping noise from being heard on the outside, and control the heat generated by the engine.
I am sure the company and the aftermarket will offer these soon in carbon fiber look or other cosmetic options as the marketplace desires. Over the years Viper has gone the extra mile to make the engine compartment appeal to the eye. The current aluminum cross brace is perhaps a good example.
I am sure the company and the aftermarket will offer these soon in carbon fiber look or other cosmetic options as the marketplace desires. Over the years Viper has gone the extra mile to make the engine compartment appeal to the eye. The current aluminum cross brace is perhaps a good example.
ohlarikd
Enthusiast
Certainly the engine bay is not any kind of reason to NOT buy the car, but I agree the Gen5 engine bay is a step back. I always liked the way the Gen1/2 had the clamshell and you could see everything so well. Now it is all covered up and looks 'fake'. My purely stock Gen3 is like opening that briefcase in Pulp Fiction - people are in awe. Everything is so CLEAN and out in the open. Dodge did a great job on that engine bay.
I have never seen the engine of the Gen5 with the covers removed... Does it look finished under there, or does it look like removing Darth Vaders helmet?
chorps
Enthusiast
My favourite Viper engine bay:
You must be registered for see images
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Well I guess that engine bay does not look too bad
BlueLIGHTNING
Viper Owner
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Cross brace does nothing for me, something else to get in the way of the engine just like the plastic.
We will be lucky to see the Viper produced after MY 2015. If it makes it that long.
Lack of sales due to lack of performance.
Why are people comparing the C7 to the Viper? Because the performance is not that far off on the base car for half the price. And when the high performance C7 comes out whatever GM decides to call it, it will out perform the Viper for less money once again.
Its sad so much hope and promise we all had for the car, and as most of us seem we are disappointed.
The state of the economy is a poor excuse. Anyone look at their 401K this year? My rate of return is over 16% so far. I cant be the only one. Fuel prices are down still out of hand but down. Home prices are up.
Its the car folks SRT just didn't listen to what we wanted or like many have eluded to FIAT is holding SRT back.
Lack of sales due to lack of performance.
Why are people comparing the C7 to the Viper? Because the performance is not that far off on the base car for half the price. And when the high performance C7 comes out whatever GM decides to call it, it will out perform the Viper for less money once again.
Its sad so much hope and promise we all had for the car, and as most of us seem we are disappointed.
The state of the economy is a poor excuse. Anyone look at their 401K this year? My rate of return is over 16% so far. I cant be the only one. Fuel prices are down still out of hand but down. Home prices are up.
Its the car folks SRT just didn't listen to what we wanted or like many have eluded to FIAT is holding SRT back.
Mamba52
Enthusiast
The good news is I finally get to test drive the car.
YOUR SRT® ALL-ACCESS REGISTRATION IS CONFIRMED
You are confirmed to attend the following SRT® All-Access event:
ADDRESS
Coolray Field
2500 Buford Dr.
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
DATE
Nov.
16, 2013
TIME
4:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m.
We look forward to seeing you soon. For additional information, please email [email protected] or call the SRT All-Access Concierge at
248-553-2458 between 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. EST.
Bad news just purchased a Vette.
YOUR SRT® ALL-ACCESS REGISTRATION IS CONFIRMED
You are confirmed to attend the following SRT® All-Access event:
ADDRESS
Coolray Field
2500 Buford Dr.
Lawrenceville, GA 30043
DATE
Nov.
16, 2013
TIME
4:00 p.m.
6:00 p.m.
We look forward to seeing you soon. For additional information, please email [email protected] or call the SRT All-Access Concierge at
248-553-2458 between 8:30 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. EST.
Bad news just purchased a Vette.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
I didn't realize that people bought Vipers in the past because they represented a better performance value than the Corvette, and that they'll all buy Vettes instead if one is faster in the future! Some own both, some don't like Vettes for various reasons, some own multiple Vipers and will want the new one too, some love the new gen V but won't want to take the price hit of selling their current one to get the new one, some are waiting for the convertible or ACR.
Lots of non-owners seem disappointed, and they're probably disappointed in everything else out there too because instead of buying something else they just keep hanging around here turning this into the moaning forum. And they have to be disappointed in the price of all other cars at this level of performance which cost more than the Viper. I think a lot of enthusiasts know enough about so many cars and their weaknesses, real, perceived, or identified by journalists, that there really isn't anything that would satisfy them...not that most of the whiners are in the market for a car in this price range anyways, or anytime soon. Some of those who are in the market have chosen the Gen V and absolutely love it! And yes, they could have bought a Stingray...but didn't.
Lots of Vette issues and unhappy owners at the moment...
Rant over
Last edited:
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
As far as cost comparisons, a factory Vette as fast as the Viper usually costs as much or more than a Viper.
SSGViper
Enthusiast
SRT would not even provide a new Viper to do the Road and Track performance car shootout LOL! I can see SRT has a lot of confidence in the new Viper performance. SRT was a no show for this and the C7 won the shootout. I can't think of a worse case scenario for the fate of the new Viper. Way to kill off a car SRT. The damage is beyond repair. Kudos to GM for a job well done. First the new Silverado truck of the year, next the CTS car of the year, and now the C7 performance car of the year! Hate all you want on the C7, it is killing the Viper and people love the car. So much for SRT marketing the new Viper.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/bestof2013/2013-road-and-track-performance-car-of-the-year
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/14/road-and-track-2013-performance-car-of-the-year/
http://www.roadandtrack.com/bestof2013/2013-road-and-track-performance-car-of-the-year
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/14/road-and-track-2013-performance-car-of-the-year/
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