T/A: The RIGHT car at the RIGHT time

FinalEd357 · Feb 27, 2014

It hit me last night that for the past six months there have been tons of negative posts on the Gen 5 UNTIL people began taking delivery of the T/A cars and mags began driving and reviewing them. SRT really hit a home run at the right time! Reading all of the owner comments on forums proves that this car has it all: OUTRAGEOUS performance beyond a standard Viper AND more aggressive looks. For Viper Owners, every one of us will recognize the car and its significance, but for the average dad/kid gawker who may not, it will stand out enough for them to ask: "What does T/A stand for"? I can imagine the cool conversations owners will be having throughout the entire driving season. For some, you will track them and enjoy the extra performance and for others, maybe you just want the KING OF THE HILL status but still remain somewhat 'stealthy'.

I would love to put one in my garage tomorrow but would probably go with a less expensive base SRT if I can. It is nice to see some T/A already discounted though. I believe the car will continue stand out in the coming years w/ lim production (93/33/33) even as the GT pkg and potential ACR pkg come out. Some may not want the more aggressive rear wing, as the T/A is more aggressive than base without too far out there... Again, kudos to SRT and congrats to the owners.

John

Nine Ball · Feb 27, 2014

The T/A is a great package. I'd have ordered an orange one, had I known they would be available. But, I don't feel the T/A is much better than any other Gen 5 out there. Each of them have their own merits, and you can achieve the exact same curb appeal on any Gen 5 with the Exterior Aero group and some black Sidewinder2 wheels. The only one that really stands out the most, is the orange, due to it being a T/A only color.

ViperSmith · Feb 27, 2014

There are minor differences with the TA and the other models as Nine Ball notes. In reality, it is more of a marketing ploy.

I think once the cars got out there and people realized they are pretty great, that the mindset changed. The trolls here have gone away a bit as I've noticed.

Bruce H. · Feb 27, 2014

The significance of the TA to the community is really in how it changed the view of the Viper in the automotive landscape when all of its reviews were so successful and positive. It's performance is significant in how it is so little different from the SRT and GTS...not how much better it is. It'll likely encourage SRT model sales as even the ballistic nylon seats and little sound insulation can't be considered low rent by those who might have otherwise. It's put the emphasis back on performance when some were worried it had gone a bit soft to attract cross shoppers.

Respected harder core members who have got on board with the TA have helped change the forum conversation, and shown some that maybe a dramatic increase in power and mod ability isn't quite as important for the Viper's future as once thought. It just took the positive reviews of the TA to spotlight the virtues of all the Gen V's, and be the car for those few that were happy to trade some options for a model that came spec'd and set-up from the factory for occasional or continuous track duty.

Bruce

johniew398 · Feb 27, 2014

SRT definitely hit a home run with the TA. My wife didn't want me to get rid of my ACR. She thought that was the best looking car I've owned in the past few years but now she thinks the same thing about my TA.

08viperviolet · Feb 27, 2014

The Ta blends the adjustable suspension and brakes and sway bars. Upgrade from a SRT which is on or off. The new GT model is also supposed to have it. Great car and a lot of gen 4 ACR owners seem to be switching to it.

VRYALT3R3D · Feb 27, 2014

I think what helped the Viper was when they tested the Viper with the advanced aerodynamics package. Which of course is included in the TA package.

steve e · Feb 27, 2014

All the gen Vs are good, they got some bad press from one of the car mags that got one to test that was not properly prepped, which is to bad, the trolls run with that stuff. And do not get me started with that, you give a car mag a new gen V to test and nobody checks over the car, I would have kicked someones ass for sure. Thank God the TA buried the bad press. Now all is good :usa:

PeterMJ · Feb 27, 2014

How much does the TA versus SRT with track pack weigh? How much actual downforce do the CF bits generate?

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse · Feb 27, 2014

Cars weigh very close because the an SRT will not have the Electronic suspension, or the much heavier ( and larger ) Brembo two piece rotors. In the end the TA weighs a few pounds more, but with the other things that trimmed down weight it is super close. The downforce has been reported at various figures, largely due to giving accounts of pressure at varying speeds, but it does function, and obviously helps with assisting the car set the production car track record at Laguna.

PeterMJ · Feb 27, 2014

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse said:
Cars weigh very close because the an SRT will not have the Electronic suspension, or the much heavier ( and larger ) Brembo two piece rotors. In the end the TA weighs a few pounds more, but with the other things that trimmed down weight it is super close. The downforce has been reported at various figures, largely due to giving accounts of pressure at varying speeds, but it does function, and obviously helps with assisting the car set the production car track record at Laguna.

From what I see, the SRT with the track pack that includes the two piece rotors, is the lightest model of new Viper, am I correct here? Unless my info is incorrect, the TA weighs about 50 lbs more. If the ground effects indeed generate downforce and are not just for looks, wouldn't you aim at losing as much weight off the car as possible to account for the downforce? I think the previous ACR was designed along this way of thinking and included removable piece of front splitter and adjustable rear wing to reduce the drag off the track. I am just trying to understand what is going with the TA.

What really confuses me is the fact that most likely much heavier GTS ride control (for better street ride) was used but somehow there are no extra pieces of aero included. I would expect a center piece for track only to be included, along with the center filler piece for the rear spoiler (I think this is where the Gurney style flap would matter the most).

Nine Ball · Feb 27, 2014

Yes, the SRT + Track Pack is the lightest Gen V available. Should be the quickest in a straight line. The T/A has heavier brakes, heavier sway bars, heavier electric shocks, and the added drag/aero over an SRT. I think I read somewhere that the T/A was 40-50 lbs heavier than the SRT. But, it is the best suited for the road course.

Bobpantax · Feb 27, 2014

2014 TA curb weight - 3332 per January Motor Trend online article.2014 Curb Weight, lb. (kg) from SRT site: Viper SRT model - 3,354 (1,521)Viper GTS model - 3,431 (1,556)Viper SRT model with lightweight Sidewinder wheels and Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires - 3,323 (1,507)Viper GTS model with lightweight Sidewinder wheels and Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires - 3,374 (1,530)

purenxs · Feb 27, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ItYO0LoMU&feature=player_detailpage#t=358

Here is an explanation of while the heavier rotors on the T.A. and it's origin. Start at 6:15! :drive:

Bobpantax · Feb 27, 2014

Among the weight saving alterations on the TA which offset the heavier sway bars are the removal of some of the sound insulation and the lighter X brace. While the brake rotors are more heat resistant, they have a smaller hat which allows for more caliper contact area. Based on the data I posted above, as to 2014 Vipers, there is only a ten pound difference between the SRT with Track Pack and sidewinders and the TA.

PeterMJ · Feb 27, 2014

Bobpantax said:
2014 TA curb weight - 3332 per January Motor Trend online article.2014 Curb Weight, lb. (kg) from SRT site: Viper SRT model - 3,354 (1,521)Viper GTS model - 3,431 (1,556)Viper SRT model with lightweight Sidewinder wheels and Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires - 3,323 (1,507)Viper GTS model with lightweight Sidewinder wheels and Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires - 3,374 (1,530)

According to SRT, 2013 SRT with track pack weighs 62 pounds less than the standard SRT. Has this changed for this year?

http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2013/02/science-at-speed-the-srt-viper-track-pack-is-here.html

Voice of Reason · Feb 27, 2014

PeterMJ said:
According to SRT, 2013 SRT with track pack weighs 62 pounds less than the standard SRT. Has this changed for this year?

http://www.drivesrt.com/news/2013/02/science-at-speed-the-srt-viper-track-pack-is-here.html

The 13 track pack cars have the Stoptech rotors, something that for 14 you cannot get. And all 14s have more sound deadening. And maybe thicker seat cushions? But that's where the difference between 13 and 14 come from.

Bobpantax · Feb 27, 2014

Also, the base SRT for 2014 comes with more standard creature comforts. That is why the base price increased a bit from 2013 to 2014. So, the 2013 SRT with track pack is the lightest variant.

PeterMJ · Feb 27, 2014

Voice of Reason said:
The 13 track pack cars have the Stoptech rotors, something that for 14 you cannot get. And all 14s have more sound deadening. And maybe thicker seat cushions? But that's where the difference between 13 and 14 come from.

Very interesting.

05Commemorative · Feb 27, 2014

PeterMJ said:
From what I see, the SRT with the track pack that includes the two piece rotors, is the lightest model of new Viper, am I correct here? Unless my info is incorrect, the TA weighs about 50 lbs more. If the ground effects indeed generate downforce and are not just for looks, wouldn't you aim at losing as much weight off the car as possible to account for the downforce? I think the previous ACR was designed along this way of thinking and included removable piece of front splitter and adjustable rear wing to reduce the drag off the track. I am just trying to understand what is going with the TA.

What really confuses me is the fact that most likely much heavier GTS ride control (for better street ride) was used but somehow there are no extra pieces of aero included. I would expect a center piece for track only to be included, along with the center filler piece for the rear spoiler (I think this is where the Gurney style flap would matter the most).

remember, the TA is still a street car. It is not an ACR or ACRX although apparently better perf than an ACR. I think a masterful marketing move for the car. At the same time, put the track pack and aero on a GTS or SRT and not sure the performance difference. Love the new brakes and wish were an option on the other models.

Bobpantax · Feb 27, 2014

The TA would beat both. The different sway bars together with the different brakes and different suspension tune and tech ( unique 2-mode, driver selectable Bilstein DampTronic shock absorbers and springs ) create a significant road course advantage.

05Commemorative said:
At the same time, put the track pack and aero on a GTS or SRT and not sure the performance difference. Love the new brakes and wish were an option on the other models.

Bruce H. · Feb 27, 2014

The insignificant few pounds and fraction of a second lap time differences are not why track rats will appreciate the car, and those times aren't going to be achievable by most anyways. The beauty of the TA set up is the improvement in handling and confidence approaching and at the limit. While Randy could balance each of the SRT, GTS and TA at the limit because he is a professional racer, most guys will back off if they start feeling uncertain, as opposed to moving well beyond to the actual limits. Randy, Graham and Ralph have all discussed this, as well as how the the TA brakes stand up to hard lapping all day vs a couple of hot timed laps needed for setting a record. Comparing weight and lap times really misses the important points.

Bruce

05Commemorative · Feb 28, 2014

Bobpantax said:
The TA would beat both. The different sway bars together with the different brakes and different suspension tune and tech ( unique 2-mode, driver selectable Bilstein DampTronic shock absorbers and springs ) create a significant road course advantage.

Bob, I know all the differences, just saying the result was not dramatic by the #'s posted before from randy. The use of the word "significant" is not founded in any data I have seen. Was there some recent testing to say otherwise?

05Commemorative · Feb 28, 2014

Bruce H. said:
The insignificant few pounds and fraction of a second lap time differences are not why track rats will appreciate the car, and those times aren't going to be achievable by most anyways. The beauty of the TA set up is the improvement in handling and confidence approaching and at the limit. While Randy could balance each of the SRT, GTS and TA at the limit because he is a professional racer, most guys will back off if they start feeling uncertain, as opposed to moving well beyond to the actual limits. Randy, Graham and Ralph have all discussed this, as well as how the the TA brakes stand up to hard lapping all day vs a couple of hot timed laps needed for setting a record. Comparing weight and lap times really misses the important points.

Bruce

partially a true statement. If the GTS had the track alignment, it would have been much more confidence inspiring. If the GTS had the aero kit, it would have also. If you track, you already know both of those points. I am just saying if it was close already and then you had those two things done, wouldn't it be extremely close?

SnakeBitten · Feb 28, 2014

I would be curious to see a non biased review of an owner that switched from a SRT/GTS and now has a T/A. Would love to hear an objective review from someone with some decent seat time between the models. I suspect its the feel of the car thats the biggest difference and you are not going to see that reflected in cold performance data.

On paper and based on empirical performance data there isn't a great enough gap to really distinguish the models performance-wise. Visually of course they are very distinguished from each other. That T/A orange is ridiculously cool coupled with the carbon aero standard. Black looks particularly sick as well. This is why I think it has to be a big tweak to the "feel" variable as to why the magazines are gushing over the T/A vs the other models since the performance is so close. That "feel" variable is an intangible that is very important to a lot of us, particularly magazine guys, and if SRT has found that sweet spot with the T/A's components and calibration then that would clearly explain the night and day difference in their take on the Viper models though performance between them is just a few tenths.

Imho once the ACR comes out then all Viper models should get this suspension/brake/aero setup as an option.

ViperSmith · Feb 28, 2014

05Commemorative said:
partially a true statement. If the GTS had the track alignment, it would have been much more confidence inspiring. If the GTS had the aero kit, it would have also. If you track, you already know both of those points. I am just saying if it was close already and then you had those two things done, wouldn't it be extremely close?

I think the TA would be slightly faster to a SRT/GTS that had similar aero options. The fact they ran Laguna with no aero is baffling in itself, but I suspect the times would have been much closer.

Bruce H. · Feb 28, 2014

05Commemorative said:
partially a true statement. If the GTS had the track alignment, it would have been much more confidence inspiring. If the GTS had the aero kit, it would have also. If you track, you already know both of those points. I am just saying if it was close already and then you had those two things done, wouldn't it be extremely close?

I'd place differences in spring, bar and damper rates rather high for affecting driver confidence everywhere, and aero through the fastest bits. R-compounds benefit from a more aggressive alignment with more grip to increase the limits, but not necessarily more driver confidence. It was the TA's unique brakes, and the fact that the factory had packaged all the components together and then optimized the calibration of settings that sold me. That eliminated all the guess work and "what ifs" in a package I suspect I'll be delighted with for some stree use as well.

Bobpantax · Feb 28, 2014

To me, "significant" means that the difference would allow you to win. I also agree with Bruce's post above. The TA allows for greater confidence and consistency. But for those who are not focused on the road course aspect, as Nineball said above, the 2013 SRT Viper without the aero and with the track pack should be the lightest and fastest in the standing mile and on the drag strip. The Aero knocks the top speed down from 206 to approximately 194. I would guess that for most Viper owners none of this really makes a difference since they will never drive the car at high speeds to begin with.

05Commemorative said:
Bob, I know all the differences, just saying the result was not dramatic by the #'s posted before from randy. The use of the word "significant" is not founded in any data I have seen. Was there some recent testing to say otherwise?

Nine Ball · Feb 28, 2014

Since my car started life without the aero, and I added it about 7000 miles later, I can attest that the aero does make a difference in feeling. There is noticeably more drag over 100 mph, and the car decelerates faster than it used to, when coasting at 75-80 mph. They definitely aren't just for looks!

05Commemorative · Feb 28, 2014

I am just attempting to point out the facts as listed below and then the questions on the value of the differences as follows:

Facts:
1) Weight - a little more than srt and a little less than GTS w/track pack (no benefit)
2) brake rotors - do not make the car stop quicker, maybe last longer, but remember the track pack brakes are the gen4 ACR brakes (enough said, no benefit)
3) track alignment - you would be an idiot not to do this for a car taking to the track. This in my opinion of where you get a big difference in feel. (big benefit)
4) aero - can get in all versions (big benefit)

Value add: (impact is up for debate)
1) stiffer springs - great for some tracks, not for others
2) stiffer (solid sway bars) - same as above
3) modified two setting suspension - difficult to know dampening differences and gains

So, I will go back to it being an amazing marketing machine. Remember, the press never tested a sorted out Viper until they tested the TA and the production GTS and SRT cars at the same time and those cars did not have the track alignment and aero. I love the fact that it did turn the press around, but I for one am not convinced the last three items I list make huge differences in confidence and feel. I do know (from personal experience ) that aero and track alignments do make huge differences in feel and thus higher confidence. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the last three items do add to performance, I just think in a much less impactful way.

T/A: The RIGHT car at the RIGHT time

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