Gen 2 worth the money even if Gen 1 is modded?

I posted something similar on the other Viper forum but always good to get multiple opinions

I am looking at getting myself into a Viper. Now although most of you seem to have more bias towards the GTS model, I for one actually like the low and wide stance of the RT/10s. The other thing that I love about the RT/10 is the side exhaust which is why I've been looking at Gen Is.

Now wherever I go, it seems as though everyone is always saying spend the money on a Gen II because it is built 110% better than the Gen I.

My questions is really towards are they truly that big of a difference even when the Gen I has modifications to address the shortfalls of a Gen I?

From what I know of (again, not an expert) the primary differences between the Gen I and Gen II are as follows:

- GTS version was introduced
- Motor work to increase the power and cut weight (from dyno charts, there isn't that large of a power gain I believe)
- Redesigned chassis to increase handling and cut weight
- Redesigned suspension to increase handling and reduce braking distances
- Introduced airbags (96 GTS, 97 RT/10)
- Introduction of powered windows
- ABS in 2001
- Side exit exhaust stopped in 1996

Now to address my arguments:

If I were to find a Gen I with modifications to suspension (coilovers) and aftermarket brakes (brembo kit) then would that basically bring the Gen I up to par of a Gen II or what were your thoughts?

Here is the car I'm looking at

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a14w37eCMyU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjMLrRSDfCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqf3mfMax4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1dDgCpSZLw

Not sure if your confusing GTS with Gen II? Lot's of people like their Gen II RT/10's

Build quality gets better with vipers every generation. Interior gets nicer and more functional every generation.

Adding coilovers and a brake upgrade doesn't convert a Gen I to a Gen II. Build quality, stronger motor, features (real windows, airbags, ABS-later) are the major differences.

Nothing wrong with Gen I's, I've had one for close to 18 years. (But I never drive it since I have a Gen IV ACR). Make sure the headgaskets have been replaced, learn to live without windows, recognize that aftermarket HP performance parts are much fewer. At the end of the day it's price/value when you make comparsions. If you like the viper you referenced and the price is fair, go buy it. Depreciation is very low on Gen I's, buy it drive and have fun. down the road you should get most of your money back if you take care of it and don't put on a ton of miles. best wishes, Mike

Drive both and buy the one you like better. They don't depreciate much anymore so if you want to change your mind after-the-fact it'll just cost you some transaction hassle.

That said, you'll likely not notice the chassis and power differences if you buy a Gen 1, because your reference point will be a Gen 1. The window thing would be a killer for me if I wanted to drive it when the weather wasn't rock-solid-certain for warm and no rain.

I was torn between the two, but a killer deal came up on a gen 1 with headers, exhaust and gear. Bought a autoform hardtop and windows to complete the package. Best of both worlds, almost like having a coupe and a roadster. It also made the car weather proof, rain is no issue.

Been following your several post on this and other forum. It,s obvious you want a GEN 1, do yourself a favor a GET IT.

I agree get the car you want, but don't buy something without it being professionally inspected. You should really drive one if you haven't done so.

My neighbor has both a Gen I RT/10 and Gen II GTS. I've asked to see if he'll let me drive both this weekend so I can compare the "feeling" between the two.

One item I did want to ask is what is going to be the costs and parts necessary of converting a Gen II exhaust to Gen I side exhaust?

I bought a Gen I on purpose. I like side pipes, removable windows, and no exterior door handles. Also, I like the three spoke wheels. If you want glass windows and exterior door handles, you might consider a Gen II. You're going to love whatever you choose though, so enjoy the hunt for the right one!

I think I am going to go for it and make an offer on that Gen I. If we agree on the price, I'll have the Viper mechanic down there do a PPI done and if it all checks out, I'll have my first Viper!

The car is going to be a weekend car and I want a convertible with side pipes. I'd only drive the car in sunny weather and I live in California so I have plenty of opportunity.

For the money, I don't think I'm going to find another Viper with this amount of money already invested in it.

I'll keep you all updated on if I get the car!

It's actually relatively easy to convert any Gen II (GTS OR RT/10) to a side exhaust. Essentially a Gen II is a Gen I exhaust plus more. The Gen II exhaust routes exactly through the same side panels, then exits though the back end of the side sills and back under the car and out the back. The side sills contain the cats as well as the first of two mufflers. In order to convert the car to a side exhaust, you'd remove the back half of the exhaust as well the muffler assembly post cat. Add a new muffler (shorty) and a turn out. The factory side sills can be carefully cut open for the exit. Something to note is that those side sills are about 3 K a piece! Sme guys buy cheap aftermarket side sills made of fiberglass. That way they can keep the original sills for the future (Barrett Jackson)

You will be happy with either one if it's your first Viper. But having owned both, the GEN-II GTS is noticably better that the GEN-1 RT/10 in every respect, on the street and on the track. I ended up selling my RT/10 last year because the GTS just made it pointless. The suspension is way better, I don't care what anyone says, I drove them back-to-back and it's a night and day difference. The GTS is noticably stiffer, yet more forgiving over ruts and small potholes. The GEN-1 is brutal at times, but not all the time. The GTS just puts more power to the ground. The RT/10 was unpredictable, ALL THE TIME. I felt the GEN-1 was on a mission to kill me, ALL THE TIME. The GTS is very predictable and never snaps for no reason. I mainly sold the RT/10 because it was starting to scare me. I respected it, but after driving the GTS I would find myself with a false sense of security in the GEN-1 and I was rewarded with a wicked 360 spin. That's when I knew it was time to let her go. I don't mind brutal but I don't like unpredictable. As far as the side-pipes, I used to think the same thing, until I heard my GTS with a B&B exhaust. Rear exit on a 96'-99' cam sounds the best of all years hands down. I would never change it to sidepipes because it will never sound as good. I even had the best sounding sidepipe setup on my RT/10, but it wasn't the same.

But with all that said, you will still enjoy your first Viper, just be VERY careful with the GEN-1 and try to keep it shiney side up.

Here is my opinion:

A Gen 1 (or Gen 2 with side pipes) with aftermarket headers and cat backs is LOUD. If you're making short drives its OK, but I had a headache everytime I drove my Gen 1 over 30 minutes. I still loved it mind you and daily drove the car 4 years until it was totalled. The Gen 2 rear exhaust still sounds pretty nice with the top off and you can have a conversation with a passenger at high way speeds and is a far better around town car even if you're Gen 1 is rain tight like mine was.

As far as normal driving experience, the cars are very similar, but on the track the Gen 2 is much better.

THe gen 1 got 25mpg on the highway and had a larger tank.

I ended up making an offer on a 1994 Viper and he accepted. I have a PPI setup for Tuesday and if the Viper mechanic says all is good then the deal is on.

In regards to the Viper, I will not be tracking it and it will be primarily be as a weekend cruiser/driver. I've heard a lot of people say how unforgiving the Gen I Viper is and I will be driving it respectfully to be sure that the car and my life stays safe!

I'll keep you all up to date if things work out

That is fantastic! Congrats ... The gen 1 cars are great , love the rawness of them!

Congrats! GEN Is are great cars very different from GEN IIs IMO. I had my first Viper a 1993 GEN I for 6 years ended up putting almost 40,000 miles on it. I also tracked the car countless times at Heartland Park Topeka. Now I have a 1997 GTS (For four years now) that I have put around 25,000 miles on it as well as a few track days. The GEN I is much rawer, a motorcycle with 4 wheels, the most involved car I have ever driven, it made you feel that you where apart of the car and the road. While my GTS is much more comfortable, much less abrasive, it feels like a real car. But you loose a little of that intimacy the GEN I had. I love my GTS but at times I miss how connected the GEN I made me feel.

Thank you guys. I'm just hoping all turns out with the PPI.

One thing I wanted to ask is that he says the motor has been left untouched but obviously I see smooth tubes. For those of you who owned a Gen I with stock exhaust, does this sound stock or aftermarket?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAV2Gep3-UU

The PPI came back on that 1994 Viper.

We have negotiated down to $26K + I need to ship it to Northern CA.

What are your guys thoughts?

Primary concerns are:

- How much would it be to fix the diff? Is it a major fix
- Fog light I can fix or remove them all together
- I will have to tell the owner that he will need to bring the car up to registration or compensate for the cost. How much will it be to check associated costs.
- AC is fine for the time being. I'm only going to be driving the car with the top off so AC is somewhat useless to me I'd think
- How much to address the parking brake
- Cost of door sills and hood springs?

PPI Report from Viper mechanic:

First I will touch on the items that should be addressed that are actual problems then I will comment on gen 1 peculiarities.

1) The differential's limited slip is weak. The only way I could tell how bad is to drive the car on a track at speed.

2) The right fog light is not secure and it would require some teardown to get to root cause, but it is a driving light and some owners remove them to make room for brake cooling ducts. Unable to determine cost.

3) It is currently out of registration

4) The ac compressor does not come on. Could be low on freon or more, but ac is USELESS on this car. The only reason I fixed mine is when on it manually turns on the cooling fan to help cool the motor when racing.

5) Parking brake only holds left rear wheel, but I dont even have a parking brake in my car sooo. Unable to determine cause without teardown.


common gen 1 issues

1) Because of how low it is, the underside of the front end is scrapped badly, but my car is stock ride height and does the same thing. (btw I plan on lowering my car to the same height as this car, it looks much better. Stock looks like a 4x4 compaired.

2) Both door seals are torn, but not badly. Seat belts get shut in the doors all the time.

3) Hood does not stay open by itself. Very common problem.

4) Access plugs to headlamps and running lamps in the front missing, like every gen one.

5) Engine is not clean, but appears to have no current leaks, but could use a good cleanning.

Modifications

1) It has a borla cat back (it appears, it cant be seen without tear down) but has stock pipe diameter and stock exhaust manifolds.

2) Bremdo upgraded calipers in front but fake brembo caliper covers over stock calipers in the rear. Upgraded rotors all around.

3) Adjustable coil over shocks. Thats a 1000 upgrade and hard to find for a gen one. You can set whatever(almost) ride height you want.

4) k and n filters with "smooth tubes" very common upgrade woth 10 to 15 horse.

5) Interior upgrade looks good

6) pioneer in dash tv with aftermarket control head for heater with all new speakers sounds good, but I have no radio in my car so take my radio review with a grain of salt. Has amp installed in the trunk.

7) Trunk has been fully lined.

8) Stainless door liners.

9) stainless side sill accents.

10) Holes have been drilled in fender liner to allow cool air into exhaust area to help prevent exhaust overheating. A helpful mod but it would require liner replacement to return to stock.

11) car has been painted and could use a good clay and buff.

In conclusion, over all condition is good and nothing that I was able to notice should stop the sale of this car. I will follow up with pictures from my phone shortly. Feel free to call the shop with questions.