With Viper production up and running again, I wonder if the snakes that are currently assembled are in fact 2015 models? By the time they get delivered, it will be late in the year, so it would make sense to make a few changes and sell them as 2015s. Then SRT (or Dodge) can shift their focus to the refreshed 2016 model starting early next year. Any insights/opinions on this?
Viper production continues...2015 model?
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doctorbob
Enthusiast
So why is the plant closing down again?
It normally closes in July. I heard that it only reopened to process outstanding customer orders. Since there is still a pretty good supply of Gen V Vipers available, I would guess that dealers would prefer that if there is going to be a 2015 Viper that production start in November or December so they have more time to sell their current inventory.
doctorbob
Enthusiast
This continues to be goofy. Let's see what Homecoming brings. To be honest, I backed off buying a Gen V because my contract was extended into 2015. I could not see having the money sitting in a garage until I get back to the Mainland. Bought a condo instead.....market is going up and I may retire here. Hawaii has like 50 miles of interstate. If you get caught doing a 100....bye bye car. Jay walking in Honolulu comes with a $ 120 fine. The police get a stipend and can lease any car they want to drive....I have seen SRT8s. Since they have not a lot to do, if you get stopped, you end up with a convention of police cars....like five or six.
However, when I get back, I would like to know my ordering options. It is my understanding that certain aspects of the options for the 2015s is already out there.
However, when I get back, I would like to know my ordering options. It is my understanding that certain aspects of the options for the 2015s is already out there.
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denniskgb
Enthusiast
Company wide, the Plants all close at Chrysler for a couple of weeks in July. Mainly to get ready for model changeover , and to do various Plant updates, repairs, remodeling, etc.
viperbilliam
Enthusiast
So 2015 is coming?
I hope so, I have plans and a vacation booked.
Oh, you mean the model yr.
Same answer.
Not sure why they'd be "retooling" to nor build the 2015, it would just shutdown.
DMAN,
Good common sense question on your part, but all the Plants shutdown, so no reason for anyone to stay open , as ancillary services, suppliers, etc. take a break at this time too, so staying open really makes no sense as so many other company wide functions are on hold. So the Plant shuts down with all the other Plants , as it would be super inefficient to stay open with so few others actually working.
Good common sense question on your part, but all the Plants shutdown, so no reason for anyone to stay open , as ancillary services, suppliers, etc. take a break at this time too, so staying open really makes no sense as so many other company wide functions are on hold. So the Plant shuts down with all the other Plants , as it would be super inefficient to stay open with so few others actually working.
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Sorry Bill, I see how reading what I posted could read like a question. I get the shutdown, I'm used to that. I was using logic to answer the above question of "is there going to be a 2015 viper?"
I'm saying yes, because if there weren't going to be one then they wouldn't shutdown to retool, they'd announce they are just shutting down period. So there must be a 2015. Seems late in the game for questioning if there's a 2015 viper or not, more a question of the new options at this point and what new changes will occur if any.
It should be exciting this time of yr, we have a 2015 to learn about and hope about (vert), fingers crossed.
Bryan Savage
Viper Owner
Well, as y'all know, the 2015 Stryker Purple has been unveiled...
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/155542-2015-viper-colors/page-2
Got one from Mark Trostle's Twitter account, and there are a couple others floating around on the forums above. This 2015 Viper was on display at the 100th anniversary event in Detroit. As you can see, it's a Grand Touring package with Hyper Black Sidewinder II wheels and the GTS hood (not sure if the current GT package gets this. Let's face it... the online configurator tool isn't very good.) It's too late in the year to have a new colour for 2014, so this has to be for 2015. Stryker Red was 2013, Stryker Green for 2014, and now Stryker Purple for 2015.
It's too soon to see a major remodel or many changes for 2015. Maybe for 2016. Dodge is having a tough enough time selling off the inventory of 2013 Vipers, so a big change would make all us Gen V owners look like chumps. Can't a manufacturer even get two freaking years out of a car before they have to change it?? This market moves as fast as the mobile phone market...
http://www.allpar.com/forums/topic/155542-2015-viper-colors/page-2
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Got one from Mark Trostle's Twitter account, and there are a couple others floating around on the forums above. This 2015 Viper was on display at the 100th anniversary event in Detroit. As you can see, it's a Grand Touring package with Hyper Black Sidewinder II wheels and the GTS hood (not sure if the current GT package gets this. Let's face it... the online configurator tool isn't very good.) It's too late in the year to have a new colour for 2014, so this has to be for 2015. Stryker Red was 2013, Stryker Green for 2014, and now Stryker Purple for 2015.
It's too soon to see a major remodel or many changes for 2015. Maybe for 2016. Dodge is having a tough enough time selling off the inventory of 2013 Vipers, so a big change would make all us Gen V owners look like chumps. Can't a manufacturer even get two freaking years out of a car before they have to change it?? This market moves as fast as the mobile phone market...
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Read an interview with Hennessey. Said that cars go in and out of fashion at a much faster rate that he has ever seen. It used to be that a car could be a star for several years, but not it seems that every 18 months or so it becomes yesterdays news and is replaced with an even newer star.
Believe that Dodge will produce essentially the same car in 15, but put together fresher packages of components. Different aero, suspension, braking, color, interior or striping packages that will appeal to different segments of the ViperNation. We may see some fresh special editions such as the TA, 1 mile dragsters, ACR, Vert, etc as they search for niches they can fill with the car they are already making.
I would suspect that they will not change too much of the basic car, as I imaging their existing suppliers have enough parts on hand to build quite a few more Vipers as currently designed.
If they want to blow away the market place they might even spring something such as a supercharger 850 hp beast that will dominate the street. Bet lots of people would stand in line to get something like that!
Believe that Dodge will produce essentially the same car in 15, but put together fresher packages of components. Different aero, suspension, braking, color, interior or striping packages that will appeal to different segments of the ViperNation. We may see some fresh special editions such as the TA, 1 mile dragsters, ACR, Vert, etc as they search for niches they can fill with the car they are already making.
I would suspect that they will not change too much of the basic car, as I imaging their existing suppliers have enough parts on hand to build quite a few more Vipers as currently designed.
If they want to blow away the market place they might even spring something such as a supercharger 850 hp beast that will dominate the street. Bet lots of people would stand in line to get something like that!
Roy
Enthusiast
This supercharger "trick" chevy is doing would perform pretty well on the Viper too...but I don't see it really happening, they want it to be the NA beast, not the blown.
I do think there will be a more dedicated version to kick the new Chevy Z06's ass next year...
I do think there will be a more dedicated version to kick the new Chevy Z06's ass next year...
SnakeBitten
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One can only hope. As for 850hp supercharged? Imagine the ungodly torque numbers with a blower. They would need to engineer a surefire way to harness that power to the pavement though. Only real way to fully harness that power fully in a RWD platform is with a DCT coupled with launch control a la Mclaren MP4/650s. But thats not happening.
At this point I just want whatever is coming to nicely cover the Z06/GTR/GT2/GT3 at a roadcourse. It shouldn't need a blower to do that imho. Improve the handling, reduce weight, add a bit more aero, CCB's, Trofeos, better gearing and it should cover whatever comes in its class for the next year or two imho.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
And unless you are an expert driver all that still won't be enough. What aspects of handling and gearing would you like them to improve? Low weight is always good, although the Z06 won't be, but I'm not sure I'd choose CCB's over the TA's steel rotors. I've chased enough cars around the track now to know the TA's are fully up to the job.
Although id rather them keep the Viper N/A. It would be hard to resist this.
850hp with just 8 psi, would just be the beginning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SKnNWvkSkI
850hp with just 8 psi, would just be the beginning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SKnNWvkSkI
SnakeBitten
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Bruce my inference about the handling refers to moreso the non-TA Vipers that need some love. Some of the complaints I've read here and in some of the mags about the rear end moving around a bit on hard braking into corners etc not so much about it not being a great handling car. It obviously is in either model. But why wouldnt you want improvement anyway??
On another note since you have me thinking a bit more across the Viper board now, the TA did barely beat the ZR1 as is and the new Z06 is already said to be faster in house than the outgoing ZR1 so I would also like to see the 2015 kick it up a notch with the CCB's, gearing as Ive read some think its holding the car back a bit etc. It was surmised that if the TA had the CCB's on that brake intensive Laguna track it would have won by more than the few tenths and thats with the inferior rubber it has to the MPSC's the ZR1 had. Apparently some think it lost a few tenths because of it. What is the reason for your not wanting CCB's?
Chelseasnake
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CCB's ? guys are crying about the price of the car now. add another 5 or 10 k more to the price wont sell a lot more cars.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
I think you're suggesting ways to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The ZR1 boiled its brake fluid doing its one quick lap at Laguna Seca and probably couldn't have backed up the time on a second or third lap...or hung with the TA at those speeds for a complete session. Durability and reliability are the first things that serious track guys care about, not a miracle lap...and that needs to get communicated here whenever we discuss road course creds. I don't believe a word that Tadge utters about the C7, like it was stress tested and is track ready. A friend bought one and proved it's brakes, cooling, mechanicals and tires couldn't survive one aggressive track day. It took that community 10 months to discover that truth. Let's wait for the truth to come out about the Z06 before we offer it the crown. I don't fear or fancy a Z06...they've always had numerous issues, and the latest will likely be the same based on C7 results so far. Another track buddy had his Z06/07 bought back by GM last year because it couldn't be fixed. Viper was built for the track. I'd welcome any improvement, but none are needed to meet current competition, and Dodge is sure to make them when needed to try to stay out front of any new competitor.
Both Venom V and myself found the rear loose at first at high speeds when lifting off the gas (his GTS and my TA). Both of us found that it "completely" disappeared, and we found that as the tires wore down a bit. We also both had them over-inflated. I just came back from 2 days at Virginia International, and it's T1 brake zone, which in my experience is the most demanding brake zone next to T10a at Road Atlanta. I hammered those brakes in T1 every couple of minutes, lap after lap, session after session, in 90F heat, and could not induce any discernable brake fade what-so-ever. Remember that not everybody likes CCB's, and a well-implemented steel rotor can still get the job done extremely well.
I will admit that I felt at a bit of a disadvantage not having a DCT, and I enjoyed that thought as I made every other production car my *****
Bottom line...if you want to mod the Viper for the track, start with the nut behind the wheel.
Road course Nut
I think you're suggesting ways to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The ZR1 boiled its brake fluid doing its one quick lap at Laguna Seca and probably couldn't have backed up the time on a second or third lap...or hung with the TA at those speeds for a complete session. Durability and reliability are the first things that serious track guys care about, not a miracle lap...and that needs to get communicated here whenever we discuss road course creds. I don't believe a word that Tadge utters about the C7, like it was stress tested and is track ready. A friend bought one and proved it's brakes, cooling, mechanicals and tires couldn't survive one aggressive track day. It took that community 10 months to discover that truth. Let's wait for the truth to come out about the Z06 before we offer it the crown. I don't fear or fancy a Z06...they've always had numerous issues, and the latest will likely be the same based on C7 results so far. Another track buddy had his Z06/07 bought back by GM last year because it couldn't be fixed. Viper was built for the track. I'd welcome any improvement, but none are needed to meet current competition, and Dodge is sure to make them when needed to try to stay out front of any new competitor.
Both Venom V and myself found the rear loose at first at high speeds when lifting off the gas (his GTS and my TA). Both of us found that it "completely" disappeared, and we found that as the tires wore down a bit. We also both had them over-inflated. I just came back from 2 days at Virginia International, and it's T1 brake zone, which in my experience is the most demanding brake zone next to T10a at Road Atlanta. I hammered those brakes in T1 every couple of minutes, lap after lap, session after session, in 90F heat, and could not induce any discernable brake fade what-so-ever. Remember that not everybody likes CCB's, and a well-implemented steel rotor can still get the job done extremely well.
I will admit that I felt at a bit of a disadvantage not having a DCT, and I enjoyed that thought as I made every other production car my *****
Bottom line...if you want to mod the Viper for the track, start with the nut behind the wheel.
Road course Nut
Very well put. Experienced drivers who have driven a production Gen V Viper on a road course uniformly praise its capabilities. The posted negative comments appear to come from those who may not have any significant road course experience and/or who may not have driven the Gen V at all.
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elanderholm
Enthusiast
A viper with a supercharger just isn't a viper anymore, IMO. SC are not for road course duty, especially roots blower...all that heat just sits on the top of the engine. The viper is NOT a one lap wonder.
SnakeBitten
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I think you're suggesting ways to fix a problem that doesn't exist. The ZR1 boiled its brake fluid doing its one quick lap at Laguna Seca and probably couldn't have backed up the time on a second or third lap...or hung with the TA at those speeds for a complete session. Durability and reliability are the first things that serious track guys care about, not a miracle lap...and that needs to get communicated here whenever we discuss road course creds. I don't believe a word that Tadge utters about the C7, like it was stress tested and is track ready. A friend bought one and proved it's brakes, cooling, mechanicals and tires couldn't survive one aggressive track day. It took that community 10 months to discover that truth. Let's wait for the truth to come out about the Z06 before we offer it the crown. I don't fear or fancy a Z06...they've always had numerous issues, and the latest will likely be the same based on C7 results so far. Another track buddy had his Z06/07 bought back by GM last year because it couldn't be fixed. Viper was built for the track. I'd welcome any improvement, but none are needed to meet current competition, and Dodge is sure to make them when needed to try to stay out front of any new competitor.
Both Venom V and myself found the rear loose at first at high speeds when lifting off the gas (his GTS and my TA). Both of us found that it "completely" disappeared, and we found that as the tires wore down a bit. We also both had them over-inflated. I just came back from 2 days at Virginia International, and it's T1 brake zone, which in my experience is the most demanding brake zone next to T10a at Road Atlanta. I hammered those brakes in T1 every couple of minutes, lap after lap, session after session, in 90F heat, and could not induce any discernable brake fade what-so-ever. Remember that not everybody likes CCB's, and a well-implemented steel rotor can still get the job done extremely well.
I will admit that I felt at a bit of a disadvantage not having a DCT, and I enjoyed that thought as I made every other production car my *****
Bottom line...if you want to mod the Viper for the track, start with the nut behind the wheel.
Road course Nut
Good response Bruce. I had a feeling you would bring up the boiling brake fluid of the ZR1 as that seems to be the sticking point for many here as to why CCB's are not for the Viper. But boiling brake fluid has nothing to do with the CCB's does it? You can boil brake fluid with steel rotors too. It has nothing to do with the rotors as far as I know. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
My "improvements" suggestions also were for the sake of the car being more appealing to other marques enthusiasts. The car has to sell to survive. Believe it or not CCB's have been bandied about as one of many reason why many wont buy the car on many forums. Steel rotors are too old tech for many of todays car nuts. To me CCB's are ion the same vein as anti-iock brakes. Many back then were against it too. Can you imagine tracking your TA without anti-lock brakes? Teh Viper may not "need" CCB's for the track but would you agree it may need it as one of the more modern feathers in its cap to sell a bit better at its price point?
The DCT issue I mentioned is if they go 850 SC as someone else mentioned. On a road course, in the street car realm so far, DCT isn't necessary yet to be dominant on the track so I dont believe it needs it for road course purposes. For streetlight enthusiasts it would appeal more to as a manual just wont compete with the DCT equipped cars in the Vipers performance class.
Dont take my suggestions as an indication that I think the Viper isnt extremely capable as it is now. But its competition isnt resting on its laurels and neither should it.
Or we can all sit back stick our collective heads in the sand and pretend everything is fine. That worked well for SRT so Im sure we shouldnt discuss any improvements. The latter is not directed at you Bruce.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
I could agree with you on many points if proposed for some other cars, but in the case of the Viper...
The Viper was purposely designed and built as an exotic with minimal tech to appeal to those looking for as elemental and engaging a driving experience as gov't regs would permit. SRT was not looking to tech to give them an edge in performance or in the showroom with other marque's enthusiasts. This is the engaging drivers car they wanted to build, it did take back the Laguna Seca record that they and Viper nation wanted (by a little or a lot, it's a win), and it's a standout choice for the hard-core track enthusiast/buyer regardless of what marque they currently own. It was never intended to appeal and sell to a large number of enthusiasts, or to those more interested in checking off a list of latest tech features. It already outperforms cars on the road course that have all the latest tech.
Viper Nation has always supported the goal of incredible performance with minimal tech, yet these strongest supporters haven't bought in numbers. As a group, we seem to be far more interested in operating a keyboard and challenging SRT's choices and actions rather than challenging the car's high performance capabilities that you suggest improving. The car's price is a huge issue for many who haven't bought. Those who want an incredible track day car haven't bought. Those who need the rags to proclaim their choice is the fastest haven't bought. I think adding tech features that it doesn't really need will however likely appeal to some buyers, while moving it further out of financial reach to many who need the price to drop rather than increase.
As far as my comment about CCB's, they aren't for everyone because of price, replacement cost if damaged, and they can require more heating to become effective, as with even the F458. Lots of TA owners are having their brake pads replaced because they squeal. Cause...pads glazing over because the brakes aren't being used aggressively enough. Mine have never once squealed in 6000 miles, with the 7 track days keeping them happy. If Vipers had CCB's there could be carnage at the Cars and Coffee! Boiling brake fluid is simply evidence of low track endurance performance goals for the ZR1, which continues with the C7, and other track wonders like at least the pre-2012 GTR's.
It will be interesting to see how the Viper and its competitors evolve, and I'm sure we'll all feel compelled to tell Dodge exactly how they should build it. Our ideas seem to be at odds with what Ralph's team were, but maybe Dodge will change direction for the car. But we should be very careful what we wish and push for on the Viper...we just might get it, and a whole lot of issues we didn't. Until then I hope a few others will dust off their Vipers and get them to the track to enjoy a world of high performance that they've never experienced!
The Viper was purposely designed and built as an exotic with minimal tech to appeal to those looking for as elemental and engaging a driving experience as gov't regs would permit. SRT was not looking to tech to give them an edge in performance or in the showroom with other marque's enthusiasts. This is the engaging drivers car they wanted to build, it did take back the Laguna Seca record that they and Viper nation wanted (by a little or a lot, it's a win), and it's a standout choice for the hard-core track enthusiast/buyer regardless of what marque they currently own. It was never intended to appeal and sell to a large number of enthusiasts, or to those more interested in checking off a list of latest tech features. It already outperforms cars on the road course that have all the latest tech.
Viper Nation has always supported the goal of incredible performance with minimal tech, yet these strongest supporters haven't bought in numbers. As a group, we seem to be far more interested in operating a keyboard and challenging SRT's choices and actions rather than challenging the car's high performance capabilities that you suggest improving. The car's price is a huge issue for many who haven't bought. Those who want an incredible track day car haven't bought. Those who need the rags to proclaim their choice is the fastest haven't bought. I think adding tech features that it doesn't really need will however likely appeal to some buyers, while moving it further out of financial reach to many who need the price to drop rather than increase.
As far as my comment about CCB's, they aren't for everyone because of price, replacement cost if damaged, and they can require more heating to become effective, as with even the F458. Lots of TA owners are having their brake pads replaced because they squeal. Cause...pads glazing over because the brakes aren't being used aggressively enough. Mine have never once squealed in 6000 miles, with the 7 track days keeping them happy. If Vipers had CCB's there could be carnage at the Cars and Coffee! Boiling brake fluid is simply evidence of low track endurance performance goals for the ZR1, which continues with the C7, and other track wonders like at least the pre-2012 GTR's.
It will be interesting to see how the Viper and its competitors evolve, and I'm sure we'll all feel compelled to tell Dodge exactly how they should build it. Our ideas seem to be at odds with what Ralph's team were, but maybe Dodge will change direction for the car. But we should be very careful what we wish and push for on the Viper...we just might get it, and a whole lot of issues we didn't. Until then I hope a few others will dust off their Vipers and get them to the track to enjoy a world of high performance that they've never experienced!
SnakeBitten
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Nice measured response once again Bruce. An actual discussion without name calling and infering someones real meaning behind his/her posts. Refreshing.
I must say that my idea about the Viper changed after SRT announced it was going after Porsche etc conquest buyers. They took the Viper upscale in terms of interior and targetted one of the most technologically forward marques in Porsche. This is what made me adjust to what they now see the Viper as. Remember GM also targetted Porsche with the ZR1 but they brought tech to the table such as CCB's etc along with some perceived low-tech [leaf springs etc] and they did succeed in getting many of the high-end shoppers to take notice even if they didn't buy one. Just see how they still talk in superlatives about it and many on those high-end forums are eagerly awaiting the C7 Z06. They wont even consider the Viper even though the TA is the current, under 500k champ.
SRT on the other hand did not do this. They upgraded the interior and the price to match and went after more sales than just the Viper Nation niche. This is why I disagree with your statement above of what a Viper is now-a-days. You stated what we all knew for the past gens before the G5. They are/were after sales and the high-end market unlike in the past. So they have evolved what they see as Vipers competition and where it should be and even its ethos with that interior but the approach performance-wise hasnt evolved to meet the demand of the high-end Porsche crowd types.
SRT's plan was a paradox imho. If Dodge has returned to the original ethos then I would not be suggesting what I am. If they continue to try to target the same audience as SRT then they will have the adapt to what people want. They have spoken with their wallets. Keep it a niche car the way it was and I'm all for it. There are plenty cars out there with DCT, CCB's and so much other tech that could satisify the tech hungry. You just dont aim a car like the Viper at that demographic and expect successful sales numbers-wise.
This is the reason why I'm feeling like these types of "improvements" may be needed for the cars image towards its target audience and for the upcoming competition.
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Bruce H.
Enthusiast
And I appreciate your style as well.
What we're discussing now is a very complex topic, and I'd love to meet the guy/gal that has all the answers. But I do think when it comes to SRT's intent that actions speak louder than words, and it seems obvious to me that SRT felt they simply needed to upgrade and refine aspects of the car to make it world class. They did that successfully within the scope of an egaging driver's car, and it's what they needed to do to attract many first time Viper buyers, including myself. I'd have been shocked from a marketing perspective if they didn't say they expected it to attract buyers of other high-end brands.
GM's actions tell all with the different approach of adding more technology, a body style change, and a low price that matches the mass-produced quality of the car. I'm not sure how many high-end buyers any of that would appeal to, but they didn't need them those buyers to make the C7 a sales success in the $50+k price range. And I really doubt the Z06 will lure high-end buyers either. Great marketing to suggest a 911 GT3/GT3 RS/GT2/TT buyer would jump ship for it, but agian, it's just Marketing 101 to claim they are now your prospective buyer. We need to give 911 buyers a lot more credit...particularly the GT3 owners that are the least likely to jump ship of any group on the planet.
I think the improvement that the Viper needs is to its image, not its features. Lots of differing opinions that are largely based on Viper owners personal power and use goals, but at the end of the day I truly believe that the car's sales are suffering from not making a good first impression at launch time...and as the saying goes, "you only have one opportunity to make a good first impression". A convertible model would necessitate many reviews and comparison tests that are needed to re-write the Gen V's story...and if you want to impress readers with tech like CCB's that would be the car to put them on. Sticking them on an SRT or GTS at this point could go completely unnoticed.
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
As a 5 time previous Viper owner, all I can say is that I'm excited as a 6 year old on Christmas eve waiting for my new 2013 GTS to arrive on Monday. Whether the model lives on or goes the way of the Ford GT it doesn't matter all that much to me. I'm going to enjoy my new Viper to the fullest. The Viper has always been kind of an outlier. Most people were afraid to even drive one for fear of the potential "bite" they might encounter. The Viper Nation wears that notion on our chests as a badge of honor. Nothing has changed. We still have one of the most ferociously raw machines manufactured at this time, and that makes me happy. I guess I'll just be 1 of the 800 or so lucky SOB's that actually get to enjoy the Gen V experience!
VRYALT3R3D
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Congrats! Is your GT500 gone?
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
Yes, the GT500 is gone. It is a great car with loads of muscle car appeal, but I've been missing a real sports car for a while now and only another Viper made any sense to me.
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