Challenger Hellcat gets 707HP!

With Sport Cups,it will...

Come on, prior models dominated before? reality check needed. ok, maybe in a world of only rear wheel drive cars. ultimately, some have done well with them in the past, but face it, not designed for it and not a great launching car. funny stuff...

do you think in a world without AWD, DCT they would still dominate? seriously, again explain how a 200k Porsche can't out corner a Camaro? Again, I think the 911 is a great car, but please please come to reality and realize it is technology of AWD and DCT and not the person behind the wheel.

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

By the way,it has only been since the Gen.5 performed so bad at the drag strip/street,that people started about all the road racing stuff.Me and my friends have drag raced Vipers for 15 and they dominated everything at the strip pre the Gen 5...

Just Excuses now...

Only Nine Ball has mastered the Gen.5,and he is one serious drag racer/shifter...Just one guy....

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05Commemorative said:

You actually said the Viper should not have side exhausts? very confused.

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No, I said, "My only complaint with the rear of the Gen 5 is the exhaust doesn't exit out the back like a real car."

OK, now I am confused....
Have you ever taken a look at the rear of Gen 2 GTS Coupe?

05Commemorative said:

You bought the car. You are happy with it. Yet, are you complaining about something?

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Just because someone owns a particular car it does NOT mean they are completely "happy" with it.

05Commemorative said:

I will also say for their to be this many posts about a challenger in regards to a Viper clearly points out a confusion on the identity of buyers.

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Are you sure it doesn't just mean folks are really interested in the latest SRT: the Hellcat?

If you are confused which to get, a challenger or a Viper, you probably were not in the market anyways.

All Bruce is stating is where the car is great. Bruce owns one so he knows. He is just saying, it you want a drag car, there are options. If you want a poser car, there are options. The Viper is just not for you, but others do exist.

Truth be told, if you own a prior Viper, you actually owned a track car also. It was not a drag car or street racer. I guess you are saying you want a Viper to be something different than it ever was.

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I admire your defense of the Gen 5, but cars are not perfect blocks of granite that cannot or should not be changed.

The automobile business is...well, a business.
Cars are built to be SOLD, not to be objects of worship by the faithful at dealerships.

05Commemorative said:

...If you are confused which to get, a challenger or a Viper, you probably were not in the market anyways.

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So just for a funny story, I actually looked at Challengers before I bought my Viper. Looked at a Yellow Jacket on my local lot and found out I could buy a Viper for the same price. Have always liked the way the Challengers looked, but it just felt like a really big car to me once I was driving it. I've been used to 2 seat sports cars most of my life, so the Viper felt more at home. I completely agree that they're totally different cars though. It's not a cross-shop comparison, just a coincidence that used Vipers and newer Challengers happened to be the same price when I was looking.

Free2go said:

Rear end looks too feminine. I don't like this whole Volado ****** design.

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I love female rear ends, lol.

WANTED said:

I love female rear ends, lol.

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Best Post Of The Day.

really not my intent to defend it at all. More to put in perspective some of the crazy requests I see as folks seem to state desires that do not relate to the history of the car at all. Kind of like asking for it to have higher towing capacities and that is what is holding them back... I jumped on the side exhaust as 90% of all vipers have it and arguably a signature feature of the car. some would say just like it having the v10. Just like the request to say it should be a drag car. It never was, so why asking for it to be now?

Every product has its target goals that it does well. The Viper has a set of those. Now to your point, if their are no buyers for those goals, then it is not a product that is super applicable. But when the goals have really been the same for the last several generations, I don't understand why folks are complaining. Instead of asking for more power that it can't put to the ground anyways, why aren't folks asking for AWD and DCT (like the 911 turbo did)? Because many are talking out of both sides of their mouths. At one level stating that is somehow going against the tradition of the car...

sunsalem said:

No, I said, "My only complaint with the rear of the Gen 5 is the exhaust doesn't exit out the back like a real car."

OK, now I am confused....
Have you ever taken a look at the rear of Gen 2 GTS Coupe?


Just because someone owns a particular car it does NOT mean they are completely "happy" with it.


Are you sure it doesn't just mean folks are really interested in the latest SRT: the Hellcat?


I admire your defense of the Gen 5, but cars are not perfect blocks of granite that cannot or should not be changed.

The automobile business is...well, a business.
Cars are built to be SOLD, not to be objects of worship by the faithful at dealerships.

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05Commemorative said:

really not my intent to defend it at all. More to put in perspective some of the crazy requests I see as folks seem to state desires that do not relate to the history of the car at all. Kind of like asking for it to have higher towing capacities and that is what is holding them back... I jumped on the side exhaust as 90% of all vipers have it and arguably a signature feature of the car. some would say just like it having the v10. Just like the request to say it should be a drag car. It never was, so why asking for it to be now?

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Because that is what some people want.
Manufacturers who fail to heed the calls of the market are doomed.

Every product has its target goals that it does well. The Viper has a set of those. Now to your point, if their are no buyers for those goals, then it is not a product that is super applicable. But when the goals have really been the same for the last several generations, I don't understand why folks are complaining. Instead of asking for more power that it can't put to the ground anyways, why aren't folks asking for AWD and DCT (like the 911 turbo did)? Because many are talking out of both sides of their mouths. At one level stating that is somehow going against the tradition of the car...

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A wise man once said, "ALL things change, it's the only constant in the universe."
And the Viper must...or die.

We are talking about keeping the Viper alive thru the only way it can survive: increased sales.
It's obvious this needs to happen now, not later.

BTW, this discussion is NOT about the quality of the Gen 5, which, IMO, is the best Viper ever.

sunsalem said:

Because that is what some people want.
Manufacturers who fail to heed the calls of the market are doomed.

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To some degree manufacturers shouldn't bend to all requests though. Some Viper people are such diehards that they'd love a 4 door SUV Viper for their family, but I certainly hope that Dodge wouldn't make one, or any kind of 4 door version for that matter. To some degree they have to retain the image of the car. If every Viper every built has been designed to handle a road course, then they suddenly build one that's just a drag strip monster and slower than a gen 1 around a track, I think the designers would have a harder time stomaching it than anyone else. The car has developed such a persona and character over the years that just rewriting it because some people think it should be faster in a straight line seems to counteract all the effort so far. I see the Hellcat and Dodge's answer to people who want to go fast in a straight line. They're answering all the calls from people who want better 1/4 mile performance by offering a car that does just that. The Viper is still their road course car.

It's like colors. If I want a red car I'm going to buy a red car, not a purple one even though red goes into making purple. A purple car will never be more red than a red car. The same goes for track and straight line performance. A car built solely for one purpose will always be better than one built for dual purpose. You can bias a dual purpose car to be more weighted in performance in one aspect than another, but you sacrifice the other to get there. It's a set of scales. If they really wanted a drag car they'd put a 5:1 rear end in it and have it top out right at the end of a 1/4 mile to maximize its performance there, but then everyone will complain that the 150 mph top end speed is too low since X car is faster than that. Change the rear end to make it perform better on a road course and now your 1/4 mile times drop. At some point you just have to live with the compromise and the fact that you can't win everything.

You know its hilarious to see myself and some others mentioned about more power, better brakes etc to help the car be more desirable and sell and as usual some twist it and turn it into us wanting a drag car and that we are dogging the Viper on its quality etc. A real constructive discussion on the Vipers future can't be had it seems. If you mention anything as an improvement its seen as an attack on the car. Apparently it should be left alone and not improved upon. SMH.

FWIW, I think power of the V10 in the Viper is just fine.
My point was others have a different opinion than I do.

FWIW, I think the best measure of performance in a sports car is it's canyon-cutting handling characteristics.
Others believe it is straight line speed.

Everyone has a different paradigm for "performance."
The more those "wants/needs" can be addressed by Dodge, the more likely the car will be sustained.

At this point in time, too many new Vipers are sitting on dealer lots, and they need to be moved before winter comes around again.
Dodge has NOT even officially confirmed there will be a 2015 model.
I'm really concerned about the future of this legendary car....

Could not have articulated better. The Viper in its current form attracts a very small % of enthusiasts. Status quo means death of the Viper. Keep the SRT as the base model and improve its off the street prowess for track rats, enhance the GTS with AWD and DCT for street ********** with 777hp and the snake will live on.

sunsalem said:

FWIW, I think power of the V10 in the Viper is just fine.
My point was others have a different opinion than I do.

FWIW, I think the best measure of performance in a sports car is it's canyon-cutting handling characteristics.
Others believe it is straight line speed.

Everyone has a different paradigm for "performance."
The more those "wants/needs" can be addressed by Dodge, the more likely the car will be sustained.

At this point in time, too many new Vipers are sitting on dealer lots, and they need to be moved before winter comes around again.
Dodge has NOT even officially confirmed there will be a 2015 model.
I'm really concerned about the future of this legendary car....

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emericr said:

The Viper in its current form attracts a very small % of enthusiasts. Status quo means death of the Viper.

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Agreed.

Keep the SRT as the base model and improve its off the street prowess for track rats

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I would like to see the TA become the base car.
Dodge screwed up the introduction of the G5 by putting out a car that wasn't all-conquering as it had done in previous generations.
The TA was all about correcting this...

enhance the GTS with AWD and DCT for street ********** with 777hp and the snake will live on.

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This I like, but I don't know if SRT can afford to devise a slick AWD....
OTOH, could the Grand Cherokee SRT possibly form a kind of model of the basic technology or perhaps "borrow" something from Ferrari?

Also, a roadster should be a mandatory part of the Viper line-up too.

WANTED said:

I love female rear ends, lol.

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I want "bad ass"...and that ain't it. Volado rear end looks like an RX-8.

Bottom Line,Dodge can do any of these things that us current,previous and possible future owners would like on a 2015 Viper.I do not believe for a second they do not the money to over come any of the challenges or engineers to make it happen. I mean,look at this Hellcat,that is proof right their.I personally believe they will not do any Wow Factor things that will cause people to get the check book out.With hundreds of new Gen.5s sitting that dealers they can not sell at fire sale prices,the Viper will be done.

I really hope I am wrong....

I personally will buy a new 2015/16 Viper myself,I do not care what it costs,but it has to be a solid 10 second car at the drag strip completely(Inc,Tires)stock.While most road race,many love the drag strip in the Viper also.... Again,Vipers did dominate the drag strips years ago before this AWD,DCT and High Tect stuff..I very rarely lost a race in my 97 GTS .It ran 11s in 97...

As soon as a DCT is introduced, I am sending in a check.

For those considering the Gen 5

I did not drive the viper to work today because it is storming. Most days I drive it and it is the only viper that I have owned that I drive so regularly. It's more comfortable, has excellent a/c, love the 7-8 inch touch screen, clutch is easier, has the nanny controls (better for me), and the list of other improvements is lengthy. The car spends most of its life under 2000 rpms, so I certainly do not drive it hard. I have eased into the pedal in 3rd, 4th and it's scary fast. Even 6th gear pulls well, not like in the Gen 3. For me exclusivity is important, and soon there will be more C7s than all the viper made since 1992.

I applaud what they have done with the Hellcat, but it will look very much like other Challengers from a distance, much like the C7Z06 will resemble other C7s. This will happen more as appearance mods come out to enhance the base version's look and appeal.

I don't how many folk race vipers in an organized sanctioned competitive sense, but if it is less than 50% of viper owners, then the manufacturer needs to pay more attention to the wants/needs of the majority.

A DCT trans in a Gen.5 with a tricked LC is a 10 Second Car with nothing else done to the car at all...I also,will write a check..As stated,lauching and shifting is brutal in any Viiper at the drag strip.I could get it right about half the time and came close to hitting the beast on the wall many times...

For now,I will be getting me a Hellcat as soon as I can with some DRs for the Test and Tunes so I don,t have to tear up the fast/$$$ VW 911 TS to much....

pathoguy said:

I don't how many folk race vipers in an organized sanctioned competitive sense, but if it is less than 50% of viper owners

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It is WAY less than that.
The streetcar is not built for "organized sanctioned competitive" racing....the GTS-R and the GT3-R are for that purpose:
http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gts-r/
http://www.drivesrt.com/racing/viper-gt3r/

What the guys here are talking about is taking their cars to their local tracks on "Track Day."
Track Days allow for anyone who has a car with 4 wheels to drive around the track for a modest fee.
It's a great, safe way to drive a car fast.

then the manufacturer needs to pay more attention to the wants/needs of the majority.

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Agreed.

FLL-B/W-GTS said:

A DCT trans in a Gen.5 with a tricked LC is a 10 Second Car with nothing else done to the car at all...I also,will write a check.

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There has been a myth created concerning the inability to fit an auto trans into the Viper.
The reality is Dodge has already done just that with its GTS-R:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eptrSafleW8

And boy...does that thing shift FAST!

One of the Hellcat Challengers is at Bandimere this weekend for the Mopar Nationals. My sister watched it run a 12.14 @ 118mph. Mind you the track is around 5280 feet and density altitude likely higher. Not sure what tires were on the car. Found a calculator that brings it down to sea level or close to and would suggest a time around 11.3 @ 127mph. Seems consistent with the published times. Using density altitude would be even lower I think.

My '01 Viper GTS (maybe simple bolt ons I cant remember) at Bandimere did a best of 13.22 @ 109 mph back in 2004.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As0MWXZVArw

Quote from the Driver (Professional Instructor):

These are a couple of fun laps as I was playing with the paddle shifters in the car. As you will see there are a few mess up's on my part, but overall the system shifts very quick, precise and is really enjoyable to use. For those of you who know this track, you will also know that 141mph on the back straight, in a street car...is fast.

sunsalem said:

There has been a myth created concerning the inability to fit an auto trans into the Viper.
The reality is Dodge has already done just that with its GTS-R:


And boy...does that thing shift FAST!

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Well if you're willing to spend an extra 40k to buy the transmission....

The viper has a few inherent flaws as I see it.
One is headroom, or lack of. I went to check one out a while back with the intent of getting one. Until I sat in it. My head was hitting the roof. They could have sold it at 1/2 off and it wouldn't have mattered as I couldn't drive it.
Two is the manual transmission as the only option. Sorry diehards, but the manual is dead and has been for a while now. You're not going to get market appeal of any kind with a manual only offering. You look at <insert supercar here> and they're all autos and few even have the manual option anymore as so few buy it. SRT is cutting out the vast majority of the market by having it manual only.

Add in a few inches of headroom and an auto transmission to seal the deal.

Today I was watching NHRA on the TV in a sports bar at lunch. They pulled out a hellcat challenger, big burn out and run. I said to my friend, probably a 11.2 or lower considering this is a pro event and track prep, etc. It ran 12.18 at 118 mph. About a half dozen guys laughed, 707 hp to run a 12 and under 120mph. I'm not saying what the car will or won't run, just what I saw literally today at a pro event, I was obviously surprised by a second slower than I thought. But maybe it was an SRT marketing rep driving the car.

The pro event you were watching was at 5800 feet. That result for the density altitude at the track at the time was good. The dozen guys who laughed were ignorant putzes.

http://www.bandimere.com/about-us/track-facts

Bildad said:

The viper has a few inherent flaws as I see it.
One is headroom, or lack of. I went to check one out a while back with the intent of getting one. Until I sat in it. My head was hitting the roof. They could have sold it at 1/2 off and it wouldn't have mattered as I couldn't drive it.
Two is the manual transmission as the only option. Sorry diehards, but the manual is dead and has been for a while now. You're not going to get market appeal of any kind with a manual only offering. You look at <insert supercar here> and they're all autos and few even have the manual option anymore as so few buy it. SRT is cutting out the vast majority of the market by having it manual only.

Add in a few inches of headroom and an auto transmission to seal the deal.

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If you are so against a manual then it doesn't sound like you did have an intent to buy a Gen V, or did your research somehow lead you to think it came with an auto? What did you buy instead, or are considering now?

Bruce H. said:

If you are so against a manual then it doesn't sound like you did have an intent to buy a Gen V, or did your research somehow lead you to think it came with an auto? What did you buy instead, or are considering now?

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I can live with a manual and have had a few recent manual cars such as 997.2 GT3 and an Ariel Atom. I would have preferred an auto as I get older and lazier though. It's the rest of the population that turns their nose up at manuals. And rightly so as they can be a pain to drive, especially in traffic, and few know how to actually use one. I tried to get my GT3 valeted once and none of the porters knew how to operate a manual. I have a new SL63 AMG now and when I'm tired of it will look at possibly the AMG GT, though it's looking disappointing from what I've seen so far. Other contenders could be a 991 GT3RS, McLaren P13, or maybe a Cayman GT4 depending on how that turns out. If the viper makes some improvements it could be in the running again.

Bobpantax said:

The dozen guys who laughed were ignorant putzes.
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Hahaha! Bob, your a total mensch.

kdaviper said:

Well if you're willing to spend an extra 40k to buy the transmission....

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I don't see it on the Option List....

Bildad said:

Add in a few inches of headroom and an auto transmission to seal the deal.

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Or a roadster.

Bruce H. said:

If you are so against a manual then it doesn't sound like you did have an intent to buy a Gen V, or did your research somehow lead you to think it came with an auto?

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Just so you know, there are guys who know EXACTLY what Vipers are and still want the clutch pedal to go away....