Gen V forum posting vitriol discourages SRT/Dodge participation

Big Mistake,SRT going after the Porsche People...While I like all Vipers and have had three of them,they do not in any way compare to the quality of a new Porsche 911.Additionaly,going to a Porsche Dealer ,they kiss your axx and are very clean professional facilities. I have been to a couple Porsche events,as I now own their hi end car,I will tell you,the Porsche people are very different than Viper People(which I am).I don,t think you would get any of the them(Porsche People) into a Dodge Dealership to by their sports car. That is just how it is...

The greedy dealers with these 140,000.00 GTSs were the start of all the trouble for the Gen.5s..Besides,SRT blowing off hundreds of their ordered customer cars,which really ********** hundreds of good customers..

All,they needed to do is have one Viper,just like the TA car(best Viper Ever) as it is and priced like the TA is and all would have been well...

Great deals on Gen.5 now,but if you buy one at fire sale prices,you are so stuck with it.... The Gen.5 is a excellent machine,but SRT did it in and is do nothing now to get it off life support.... Sad Situation...

I think you missed the point on your last comment. No, most commenting have not driven or have experience to comment. Don't take specific comments out of the overall context.

Convert and Auto makes sense (and I agree) CCB, not so much unless you have driven. more hp, not so much. take in context please.

I

sunsalem said:

You have a point.
Frankly, I don't know what the service intervals are on Ferraris these days (other than much longer than before).

I also agree the Viper V10 is a "tank" and can handle a lot of abuse.



Not much left to say after these comments.


Wait, what?
I am supposed to drop 100k bucks "to see what it is missing?"


We have ALREADY said "what it needs,"....CCB, DCT, Vert., etc.

Some folks around here apparently believe their G5 purchase is under attack and feel a need to defend their decision.
FAR from it.
The G5 is the best Viper ever IMO.

The "complaints" are about what the Viper could be...what it would take to rescue the car from the abyss with future sales to those of us holding back.

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Nope, not a specific person, but groups of them. I know you did end up driving and had great insight after you had and that was my point, that experience had value.

05Commemorative said:

I think you missed the point on your last comment. No, most commenting have not driven or have experience to comment. Don't take specific comments out of the overall context.

Convert and Auto makes sense (and I agree) CCB, not so much unless you have driven. more hp, not so much. take in context please.

I

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FWIW, I have started a new thread.
My idea was to give a place where everyone can chime in with their opinion about where the Viper should go from here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...nd-future-state-of-Viper-sales-and-technology

I am sure everyone who posts on the forum is interested in seeing the car being around for another 20 years.
I know I am.

Also (and FWIW), I want to apologize to anyone who might think I was attacking the G5 or its owners.
That wasn't/isn't my intention in the slightest.

I have loved the Viper from G1 onwards.
I am also VERY passionate about the car and really do care about its future and do not want to see it sink into the sunset.
And I am not above voicing my displeasure when I fear it might.
Again, my apologies to anyone who thinks I was "trolling."

PeerBlock said:

With additional post you make, it's becoming more apparent that the Viper is not the car for you. If speed is all that matters to you, then buy a cheap car and drop a built engine in it. Whether or not you kick ass in whatever car you're in is more about you as a driver than the car itself.

The Viper is a take it or leave it car, it's not an everyman vehicle and it's definitely not something that Dodge built to cater to whiny trolls.



Or you could learn how to stop shifting 100x slower than other people.



It beat the ZR1 with little more than a tire change, after "losing" by tenths of a second that could easily be attributed to the driver's mis-shift and worn tires.

The viper is definitely a $150K car. If you don't have $150k, $90k or $70K then go buy yourself a Vette, supercharge it with all the money you save, and see how many Vipers you can cause problems for.

GM is largest single welfare recipient in US history, and to this day owes taxpayers millions. Seems like they've gone from being domestic to european with their obvious support of socialism.



A grown man would not be demanding that his ideal car come factory equipped with a ******.

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Its apparent you don't know sh*t about sports cars.

FACT: The Dodge Viper sales are disappointing.
Interpretation: Most sports car guys are not buying.

FACT: Gen 5's listed as low as $72,000 are sitting in dealers lots for weeks...and months.
Interpretation: Most sports car guys are not buying.

FACT: A $70,000 Hellcat will kick a Gen 5's ass in the 1/4 mile with 95% of sports car drivers behind the wheel.
Interpretation: You just don't f*cking get it.

FACT: The Dodge Viper is dangerously close to being discontinued due to not hitting the mark with customers.
Interpretation: Its idiots like you that ignore data and attack guys who actually raced their Vipers damn near every weekend both legally and illegally like I did and who really understand whats going on in the sports car world like I do that end up distorting reality.

THE reality is very few people are buying the Gen 5. Why? Because its not competitive not only in the $100k sports car environment..but also soon to be the $70k sports car environment.

So...its guys like you that hold on to your "core values" and attack guys who are telling you what the problem really is that are partly responsible for the problem perpetuating.

Hold tight to your position and your "living in a cocoon" approach and not only will the current Viper will not only not be a car for me...but no upcoming Viper will be the car for you...because the Viper will be discontinued and not available. And if that happens...get used to looking at tail lights...b/c with the existing Vipers vs the current competition..thats all you will ever see.

Keith. Come on man. Tone it down a bit. You know well that the Viper's main mission is a road course car not a drag racer. You former beloved Viper was modified to improve its drag racing capability. If you drove a TA for 500 miles or so, you would be very impressed.

Why aren't more people buying the car? Because it has been marketed very poorly and people, such as yourself, should have been able to take one for a spirited ride at their local dealer and were not allowed to. That has resulted in a huge amount of arm chair bashing that could have been avoided.

The car is fantastic. And I speak from a reference point of having had a Roe supercharged Gen II and a Paxton supercharged Gen III. If the Viper does not continue it is the loss of many and the good fortune of those of us who bought one. I am enjoyng the hell out of mine and just about everyone who has bought one and actually uses it agrees.

Now this cracks me up.

Look closely at your list of four "FACTS". Only #1 is a fact, #2 is a gross exaggeration thus not a fact. #3 is clearly not a fact. #4 is also not a fact and nothing you would have information on.

Lastly, you claim to be a sports car expert, but then have public stated you would get a Challenger over a new Viper... Are you suggestion the challenger is a sports car?

black mamba1 said:

Its apparent you don't know sh*t about sports cars.

FACT: The Dodge Viper sales are disappointing.
Interpretation: Most sports car guys are not buying.

FACT: Gen 5's listed as low as $72,000 are sitting in dealers lots for weeks...and months.
Interpretation: Most sports car guys are not buying.

FACT: A $70,000 Hellcat will kick a Gen 5's ass in the 1/4 mile with 95% of sports car drivers behind the wheel.
Interpretation: You just don't f*cking get it.

FACT: The Dodge Viper is dangerously close to being discontinued due to not hitting the mark with customers.
Interpretation: Its idiots like you that ignore data and attack guys who actually raced their Vipers damn near every weekend both legally and illegally like I did and who really understand whats going on in the sports car world like I do that end up distorting reality.

THE reality is very few people are buying the Gen 5. Why? Because its not competitive not only in the $100k sports car environment..but also soon to be the $70k sports car environment.

So...its guys like you that hold on to your "core values" and attack guys who are telling you what the problem really is that are partly responsible for the problem perpetuating.

Hold tight to your position and your "living in a cocoon" approach and not only will the current Viper will not only not be a car for me...but no upcoming Viper will be the car for you...because the Viper will be discontinued and not available. And if that happens...get used to looking at tail lights...b/c with the existing Vipers vs the current competition..thats all you will ever see.

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Thanks for the responses so far. I suspect the issues that Gen V owners are interested in may be different somewhat from those who haven't bought yet for a variety of reasons. We all share the desire for the car to continue to be built, although differ on what the focus and features of the car should be. Beyond that some members focus their comments and concerns on low sales volumes, launch mistakes, stock power levels, upgradability of engine, styling, target market, price, features, lack of vert, etc.

We all have our opinions on things, and share our views in this forum, but what would be the key "questions" you'd like answered by members of the SRT team? I suspect they'd like to respond to a few good ones.

Hi Bruce.

1. When will the 2015 order book open?

2. Does SRT contemplate having a streetable "drag pack" Viper?

By this, I mean a Viper that has more weight reduction; fewer creature comforts ( which would help with the weight reduction); different gearing ( shorter first gear so the launch bog is eliminated); a "drag" suspension setting that allows the car to sit and squat a bit to increase traction; and some method of keeping inlet temperatures cooler - perhaps an intake system that is better insulated. I have not mentioned the Hellcat eight speed auto because I know it does not fit and the transmission used in the Viper race car costs about 50 K so that is not going to find its way into a 2015 Viper as an option for that reason and many others. I think that with the changes that I mention, the Gen V drag pack Viper could easily run better than 10.8 in the quarter with a good DA. Its cost could be considerably less because it would have less content and be more of a stripped down version which I think many would like. Dodge already did "less content" versions of its other SRT products so the stripped varaint is not a new idea - just applied in a new way.

I hope that SRT reads this post because I think they could pull this off pretty easily just the way they put together the TA project. It would be a very cool car.

Good questions Bob. And if they hadn't considered a Drag Pack car I think you just gave them a pretty good road map for one!

I appreciate the sentiment of the title thread, however, it must be understood that on-line forums are just open virtual conversations. It is the responsibility of the participants to "speak" with the understanding that what they "say" is within "earshot" of anyone who might be monitoring the discourse. If SRT/Dodge has people who monitor board, they should be prepared for discussion dynamics governed by the human factor. People should be free to say what they want. The quality of what they say will determine the efficacy of their word, thus self policing. SRT/Dodge or any other member can pretty quickly determine if someone is trolling or offering a genuine opinion. This forum, by nature of its existence, is a booster medium for Dodge products. It is safe to say that any company type unwilling to get as much information as possible from those interested, is getting a tad full of Kool-aid; that is not a good thing. The sentiments expressed here, in whatever form they come, are none the less, a valuable resource and sounding board for product. At the same time, enthusiasts a.k.a. the lunatic fringe, tend not to be the best source for information if the intent is to feel the pulse of a more generalized group like the greater marketplace. Maybe they listened too much.

On thing for sure: The Gen V is not just another "me too" performance car. It has a reputation of being a slightly crazy car. That coupled with dealers treating the cars like they are fueled with nitro-glycerin, perpetuates that myth. I found the new Viper to be almost sedate compared to my Gen ll--very accessible. Nowhere in the press or elsewhere is that expressed without the inevitable, "this car will kill you in a second" statement, which is true for ALL high test cars. Most of the other cars are following the trends. Vipers are just not designed for your average performance car buyer, and that makes it unique. It will never be a sales powerhouse--it never has been. Anyone whining about the car probably doesn't own one. I have yet to see or hear of a truly disappointed owner. I drove one for a while and it made my old 98 feel like...well, an old 98. I still I love the hell out of It. So, Carry on and let everyone be responsible for their own perceptions, opinions, and whatever. It will all come out in the wash. A few knuckleheads in the midst of the sensible,
will always be attached to the cost of freedom.

This thread was posted on both prevalent Viper club sites. The responses on this site are par for the course, filled with trash-talking and trolling. One of the main reasons I no longer participate on this site. The general attitudes ****, and the Gen 5 has always been bashed here. Gentlemen, grow the hell up.

Nine Ball said:

This thread was posted on both prevalent Viper club sites. The responses on this site are par for the course, filled with trash-talking and trolling. One of the main reasons I no longer participate on this site. The general attitudes ****, and the Gen 5 has always been bashed here. Gentlemen, grow the hell up.

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Very similar comments on both sites so it isn't clear why you'd be calling out one site over the other? Maybe the same people are posting on both sites or maybe it simply represents the sentiments and personalities of the folks that are active in the forums. There is good and relevant content on both forums but the daily drivel can be distracting and unfortunately a turn-off for many.

Dirk Pitt said:

Very similar comments on both sites so it isn't clear why you'd be calling out one site over the other? Maybe the same people are posting on both sites or maybe it simply represents the sentiments and personalities of the folks that are active in the forums. There is good and relevant content on both forums but the daily drivel can be distracting and unfortunately a turn-off for many.

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Have to hand it to him.
Doesn't like people trash talking his car, but writes this:

If SRT truly wanted to cater to the Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo guys, they failed. Why? Because they would have put a torque-less puny engine in the car, added $100K to the pricetag, and made the car look feminine and weak. I'm glad they failed, in that regard

In regards to Lambo, Porsche and Ferrari owners.
So disparaging other car owners is A-ok.
My car....not okay.

Tony. Post 42 is not a fair and balanced comment. Both threads have mixed comments. No surprise. Many people who post belong to both clubs and/or are signed up on both Forums. There are many interesting and informative posts on the VCA site and I think you know that since you would have had to read this thread to know to post at all which means that you must visit this site occasionally to read posts. This site did more to promote the TA than any other site and I think that effort paid off for SRT. There have also been many excellent, positive posts about the Gen V by some very knowledgable and detail oriented people. I try to focus in on the posts with positive detailed content instead of the somewhat repetitive negative comments. Puting a few posters on "ignore" has been very helpful in that regard.

Nine Ball said:

This thread was posted on both prevalent Viper club sites. The responses on this site are par for the course, filled with trash-talking and trolling. One of the main reasons I no longer participate on this site. The general attitudes ****, and the Gen 5 has always been bashed here. Gentlemen, grow the hell up.

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Wrong. There is more hostility and arguing back and forth on this thread. Like usual. ViperJon even took it upon himself to take a funny/sarastic response of mine and try to make another argument. LOL

Bob, maybe you don't see the negative posts BECAUSE you use the ignore feature. Ever thought of that?

Grow up, fellas! This should be more fun.

I agree with Tony. I open up many threads and think damn, what's going on here. The main reason I bought a 2013 427 was it is a convertible. If the viper returns as a vert down the line with a fair price I will get one. I like to come here and read about the owners impressions of the G5. I think its the best Viper ever made and Dodge should be proud! If I was an insider and read all the doom and gloom I wouldn't respond either. This should be a fun place to come to and not talk about the Vipers death every day. Peace....

Excellent Idea..Drag Pack Viper.....Why does the 8 Speed Auto not fix in a Viper ????(Bob/Anyone) The current manual 6 Speed is huge,in mean,how much bigger can the 8 Speed be... I think someone just said the Auto is to big and will not fix and people just believe it.Again,I do not believe for a second the Dodge does not have the money and engineers to do things like the drag pack idea if they wished.With a bump in HP,which will now have to be over 707 HP and that Drag pack Car,you will hear very little about the Hellcat and their will be happiness with the Viper crew and the new customers will come,esp with a Automatic...

BlackMamba1, Dodge Surveyors need a reality check like you provide here and your post # 35. A Paddle-Shift-Auto is a #1 Draw.

05Commem, YOU speak like a guy who has some seat-time in Gen 5! Til U spend time with one, you don't know what your are talking (********) about. I don't really know any 'unhappy' Gen5 owners, unless its th same complaint since 1992: Lame Exhaust Note.


Replies in Italian here ? Sheesh. [Pen-Pal with Segio?]

black mamba1 said:

By and large Viper owners are passionate people, passionate about sports cars and very passionate about the Viper. Sports car owners are usually very competitive people, and Viper owners tend to be very very competitive. I for one am not going to sugar coat anything because quite frankly when it comes to sports cars the only thing people really give a damn about is is how fast and how badass the car is and will it kick the competitions ass. You can keep your go-to-meeting apps and all the other European crap they stuck into the Gen V and just give me another 100 hp with an automatic option that shifts a hundred times faster than any human being can shift.

But you didn't do that. You gave me a euro Viper that has problems competing with an outmoded outgoing Chevy ZR1. And guess what? Nobody really wants the damn thing. You can't give the car away at $70,000. So don't come to me with excuses come to me with a badass car like you did with the Hellcat.

This is a grown mans game. And if you want me to pay $130,000 for your sports car then build me a badass sports car that kicks the competitions ass and stop making excuses.

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It is amazing to me that this stuff continues to be rehashed repeatedly. I am not sure if it is a fact but it sure seems to me that most of this diatribe is created by non-VCA members.

JonB.....so you are still a member of the Oregon VCA ? Last time I hooked up with the Washington/Oregon/Western Canada clubs in Washington, which was approximately two years ago, the Oregon club was non-existent.

I actually don't think it matters if a member or not (considering how little that gets you now), but more about actual knowledge and experience with the product itself.

I think we too often associate member = owner, and enthusiast not = owner. Most important is if they own, use or have real experience with the product.

doctorbob said:

It is amazing to me that this stuff continues to be rehashed repeatedly. I am not sure if it is a fact but it sure seems to me that most of this diatribe is created by non-VCA members.

JonB.....so you are still a member of the Oregon VCA ? Last time I hooked up with the Washington/Oregon/Western Canada clubs in Washington, which was approximately two years ago, the Oregon club was non-existent.

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Gen 5 owner and my enthusiast title is enough for me.

My point was "diatribe" and 05 you are right, I should clarify my response. It should not reflect those who have the expertise or knowledge of the car itself but the rehash of bashing of what went wrong with the introduction of the car, marketing, dealers, and all the rest.

What amazes me, as I've said elsewhere - is that people can rehash and make the same complaints for almost two years straight now. Don't you all have anything better to do? I mean, how many times can people bring up the launch of the car as a complaint? Ralph even acknowledged it all himself as bad.

There are several "I should go buy XYZ instead" - why haven't you done so? Bravo to the folks that did!

Hell, you even have people like kristopher who had a lemon, bought a ZR1, then came back to the Gen V. It must say something about the car if he came back. The biggest people with gripes seem to have little seat time in the car, if any.

None of the three Viper forums are hospitable to Gen V owners and the lack of participation shows it to be true. The "Viper Family" is anything but friendly and opening, which its reputation, sadly, precedes it.

Nine Ball said:

This thread was posted on both prevalent Viper club sites. The responses on this site are par for the course, filled with trash-talking and trolling. One of the main reasons I no longer participate on this site. The general attitudes ****, and the Gen 5 has always been bashed here. Gentlemen, grow the hell up.

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I lurk around a bit and have found negativity for the Gen V on all the Viper forums. Also, I have quietly read and admired your posts Tony. There's no question you deserve respect, but some of your posts recently have been a bit condescending and snooty.

I think we all know the past of the G5 but there is no unified consensus of the direction it should go....

Free2go said:

I lurk around a bit and have found negativity for the Gen V on all the Viper forums. Also, I have quietly read and admired your posts Tony. There's no question you deserve respect, but some of your posts recently have been a bit condescending and snooty.

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Sorry about that. It is driven by my tolerance of trolls depleting.

I would rather people not ***** or argue, at all.

Tony

My $.02...Make the Gen 5 a T-top, and removable carbon fiber panel easily stores in back, give an auto paddle shift option, look at CAAP, get it open but don't bow to the union and lay off some of the extra people, and if the line slows down have people work at two stations and get rid of the picnic tables and newspapers, make maybe less per week but the plant keeps producing....the car is well needed...

I would rather people not ***** or argue, at all.

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It's not all bad.......the variety and number of posts including rehashing shows interest and even some passion (which does bring out the good, the bad, and the ugly) about a car they own or would like to own. The viper was designed from the beginning to stir emotions, light the fires etc........still doing that it seems

pathoguy said:

It's not all bad.......the variety and number of posts including rehashing shows interest and even some passion (which does bring out the good, the bad, and the ugly) about a car they own or would like to own. The viper was designed from the beginning to stir emotions, light the fires etc........still doing that it seems

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+100000000000