SCT tuner or upgraded PCM

I guess I got a little confused today. I was bored and starting searching the net for upgrades for my car to see what all is out there and ran across the SCT Tuner from ROE. I was under the impression the only way we could get a custom program was to buy a custom tuned PCM, or have our existing flashed. Does the SCT give me the options that a custom PCM would? I know it would be a default program that I would have to customize myself using the handheld, but isn't that the same thing they do to the PCM's? I have had flash tuners on numerous vehicles in the past and know how they work. So I guess the big question is which is the better to go with? What will a custom flash give me that I can't input with the tuner? Just curious...thanks.

I've met Torrie (does tunes for ROE) and watched him program. I watch him modify a tune and email changes based on dyno result. It was pretty interesting. For me, the act is better for that reason

Sorry typing on phone, or I would elaborate

The sct has to be loaded up with a tune for your can they don't come loaded up from sct, but if you get it from a shop that does tunning they can sell you the unit ready to go. The other option is to send your pcm to get re program. I will tell you there is no better way to tune your car than an actual dyno tune.

cdover73 said:

I guess I got a little confused today. I was bored and starting searching the net for upgrades for my car to see what all is out there and ran across the SCT Tuner from ROE. I was under the impression the only way we could get a custom program was to buy a custom tuned PCM, or have our existing flashed. Does the SCT give me the options that a custom PCM would? I know it would be a default program that I would have to customize myself using the handheld, but isn't that the same thing they do to the PCM's? I have had flash tuners on numerous vehicles in the past and know how they work. So I guess the big question is which is the better to go with? What will a custom flash give me that I can't input with the tuner? Just curious...thanks.

Click to expand...

The caveat is the SCT only works with a gen 2 or 3 as I understand it, but looks like that wouldn't be as issue as you have a 2003. In the long run the SCT can only change so many things in the computer compared to a full standalone, but unless you are doing a reallllly crazy build I think you'd be fine.

To answer your question:

Technically, you have the same capabilities, and can end up with the same file via Direct Fash or via SCT. However, the choice depends on the application more than anything. If you are looking for basic changes, are going to tune the vehicle once, or are building a "cookie cutter" package, Direct Flash is the way to go. If you want to be able to change tune files regularly and update changes you keep making to the car large enough to distate a change, or you want software to be able to tune yourself, you go the SCT route. Basically, if you have no need to tune or change files constantly, what is the point of paying 2-3x the cost of a flash to have a peice of hardware that you will throw in a trunk and never use again?

Okay, so both options have similar results but also have their own restraints. Got it. That's what I was looking for! I was just curious as I was under the impression that the only way to program my Gen 3 was to have the PCM sent off and flashed, buy a pre-programmed "cookie cutter" PCM, or do a custom dyno tune and flash. All involving direct removal and/or altering of my PCM. I didn't realize the handhelds were available for doing this. I have had many SCT's in the past on different vehicles including an 800+hp '03 Mach 1, so I now know sort of what to expect from each option. Thanks to all for the responses.

So I keep coming back to this topic. I'm currently considering the SCT but still not quite sure how it works.

First of all, I like the idea of being able to make tuning upgrades as I add stuff to my car (cam/exhaust/intake/heads/etc). As each step is done it would benefit from being 'added' to the program as well. Having to re-flash each time would be costly. Or I could wait until everything is done and do it once.

The thing I am still confused on is how the SCT actually works. My previous experience with handheld tuners allowed you to plug in to the OBDII and install a tune basedon stock/towing/performance pre-loaded tunes. On some you could even change tire height, shift points, EGR settings, cat delete, cooling fans on/off, etc. Will any of the handhelds for the Viper do exactly this? I keep hearing it doesn't come pre-loaded with a tune. So what good is it if I have to go get a custom tune from a shop that specializes in that?

Can someone please clear this up? I'm looking for a simple answer as to whether or not the handheld will give me personal tuning capabilities without having to buy a custom tune on top of buying the programmer.

Thanks,

Call the guy Jeff was talking about. Torrie. IIRC he can send you a tune for your 03 using the SCT Handheld tuner. Or sell the SCT with the tune loaded. He used to tune our SRT8 Jeeps back in the day.

cdover73 said:

So I keep coming back to this topic. I'm currently considering the SCT but still not quite sure how it works.

First of all, I like the idea of being able to make tuning upgrades as I add stuff to my car (cam/exhaust/intake/heads/etc). As each step is done it would benefit from being 'added' to the program as well. Having to re-flash each time would be costly. Or I could wait until everything is done and do it once.

The thing I am still confused on is how the SCT actually works. My previous experience with handheld tuners allowed you to plug in to the OBDII and install a tune basedon stock/towing/performance pre-loaded tunes. On some you could even change tire height, shift points, EGR settings, cat delete, cooling fans on/off, etc. Will any of the handhelds for the Viper do exactly this? I keep hearing it doesn't come pre-loaded with a tune. So what good is it if I have to go get a custom tune from a shop that specializes in that?

Can someone please clear this up? I'm looking for a simple answer as to whether or not the handheld will give me personal tuning capabilities without having to buy a custom tune on top of buying the programmer.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

So the SCT itself is just the device that allows a tune to be installed on your car. You can save up to three tunes on the device and flash them to your car at will. I believe it can do more that just fuel and spark remapping as you mentioned, but I am not sure it's full capabilities as I have not messed with any software for them. I know it can turn off shift lights and I believe downstream O2 sensors, so I'd wager it could do most if not all of the things you listed.

Making the tunes is a different story. You can buy the software that creates tunes that you can load on the SCT, but it is costly. There is also next to no documentation (especially for Vipers), so you're kind of tuning in the dark and making changes to see what works. These are not high volume cars, so not many people are familiar with the computer's capabilities. I have debated getting the software myself to see what I could change, but the price tag wasn't worth it for just idle curiosity. I believe the way it works is you buy the base software, then "tokens" for the cars you want to tune with it. The SCT handheld itself can be used to talk to several different vehicles, but they limit what you can create tunes for by making you essentially buy a license for each kind of car you want to tune. You can buy bulk at a discount (like all supported Dodge vehicles for instance), or just one vehicle (like a Viper) at a time.

The other caveat with the handheld itself is that it can only be used on a single vehicle at a time. By that I mean if you use it to push a custom tune to your car, it "locks" itself to your car until you push the stock tune back. At that point you can then use it to push a tune to another vehicle, which will then lock it to that vehicle until you flash it back to stock. You can only use it on three different vehicles before it completely locks itself so you can't use it anymore. You can get the handheld unlocked to be used again, but I'm not sure what the cost involved is (probably a few hundred bucks if I had to guess). I do not know if the software will allow you to unlock it though.

That's more or less the extend of my knowledge on the SCT. Typically speaking you buy the handheld, have a shop create a tune for you based on your mods, load it to the handheld, and flash it to your car. If you make changes to your car, you have the shop send you a new tune and load it up to the handheld to repeat the process. The shop can email you the tune file and there is software that comes with the handheld (for free) that allows you to move a tune from a personal computer to the handheld, but it is not tuning software. I realize this all sounds very convoluted, but I didn't design the system, lol. Does this make any more sense to you? If you want to tune your own car, then you'll be paying a hefty amount to get the ability (I think the tune creation software is something like $2000). I think many shops will charge you more for an initial tune and then maybe give you a discount if you go back after making smaller changes. Say maybe $500 for a custom from scratch tune and then $100 for an update after you swap headers or something like that.

However, after saying all that, many places will sell the SCT with a tune for a package deal. Roe Racing is one example (http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/Engine-Management-and-Tuning-c210.htm). They sell a blank SCT with no tunes, or you can buy one with a tune pre-installed, so unfortunately there isn't really a straight simple answer for you. If you plan to change your care, you will have to get a new tune each time unless you buy the software to create tunes yourself.

Also, I'm a semi-complete liar. It looks like the tuning software has come way down in price and is only ~$370 (http://www.roeracing.com/productcart/pc/SCT-Pro-Racer-Software-96-06-Viper-engines-210p739.htm). This is what you need if you want to make tunes yourself. It looks like it is limited to tuning only your car (so you might not be able to use it on any other Viper), but if you plan to make more than a few tunes it could pay for itself.

cdover73 said:

So I keep coming back to this topic. I'm currently considering the SCT but still not quite sure how it works.

First of all, I like the idea of being able to make tuning upgrades as I add stuff to my car (cam/exhaust/intake/heads/etc). As each step is done it would benefit from being 'added' to the program as well. Having to re-flash each time would be costly. Or I could wait until everything is done and do it once.

The thing I am still confused on is how the SCT actually works. My previous experience with handheld tuners allowed you to plug in to the OBDII and install a tune basedon stock/towing/performance pre-loaded tunes. On some you could even change tire height, shift points, EGR settings, cat delete, cooling fans on/off, etc. Will any of the handhelds for the Viper do exactly this? I keep hearing it doesn't come pre-loaded with a tune. So what good is it if I have to go get a custom tune from a shop that specializes in that?

Can someone please clear this up? I'm looking for a simple answer as to whether or not the handheld will give me personal tuning capabilities without having to buy a custom tune on top of buying the programmer.

Thanks,

Click to expand...

I have the SCT on mine. SCT does not sell them directly with Viper tunes, You need to buy it from a vendor that can load tunes on it to suit your needs, then it works like the other ones you've had in the past.
I got mine from Roe. Told him what I was doing to the car, he set it up for that.
-still a 'canned tune' and not the most optimum, but the car does have more power than stock now.

Having the car tuned on a dyno is really the way to go, but it is more costly and has to be re-tuned again every time you change something.
Pay again.

Roe can e-mail tunes to you for any changes within reason.
There are some other vendors here that can offer the same sale and service.

After several years with the SCT, I am now leaning towards having my car dyno tuned.
I can tell it's a little on the rich side. I have more un-tapped power available.

food for thought..................I hope this insight helps.

Thanks guys! That does clear it up. The confusion I had was about the pre-installed tune. I was thinking it would be the same as my older units that came with a generic tune, but now understand whats going on.

Again, I was just curious. A member, mentor, and my new hero has been telling me to go with a dyno tune and I need to start listening to him since he hasnt steered me wrong yet. Especially on my exhaust! The only hesitation I had was the immediate desire to see hp increases as I add stuff(which an SCT would kinda do). But I think the best route for me would be to finish my upgrades to the point I consider complete, then do a dyno tune to bring it all together as a one time expense. Any changes past that will cost extra with either an SCT or a custon dyno so it may as well be the dyno which will be more precuse to my car.

Thanks guys! I truly appreciate the feedback and love the no-nonsense direct opinions and advice. This is exactly why Im here. (Apologies for any typos...fat fingers on my phone is aggravating to keep spell checking)