Carbotech track pads

[treesnake]

I tried a set of Carbotech XP12s (front) on the track. They lasted two days or (10)-20 minute sessions....
I followed the instructions on bedding them, but figured I didn't get the pads hot enough or did something wrong causing the short life...
So I got a second set. This time I know I got them hot enough on the bedding process.
These pads are just about used up again after two track days....

Has anybody else experienced this excessive wear with the XP12 pads?


I use CT pads on my street cars w/o any problems. I use XP8s on the back of the track car and they are fine too. I have used XP10s on the front and they seem to wear quite a bit better than the XP12s...

I know tracking is expensive but a set of pads every weekend???

Seems that a lot of guys are using Mintecs in front and Brakeman 3s in the back. Anybody tried both and can give a comparison?

Thanks

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I spent thousands of dollars before finding the setup just right for me.

 

[TrackAire]

Did you say ten 20 minute sessions....like 200 minutes of track time? I'm sure some of the ******** track guys will chime in but if I got nearly 3.5 hours at track speeds on a set of pads I think I'd be happy, especially if they worked well and held up to the speed and braking forces a Viper can dish out.

Looking forward to hearing what some of the track rats have to say on this. Sounds like you had a fun time though.

Cheers,
George

 

[David Pintaric]

I tried a set of Carbotech XP12s (front) on the track. They lasted two days or (10)-20 minute sessions....
I followed the instructions on bedding them, but figured I didn't get the pads hot enough or did something wrong causing the short life...
So I got a second set. This time I know I got them hot enough on the bedding process.
These pads are just about used up again after two track days....

Has anybody else experienced this excessive wear with the XP12 pads?


I use CT pads on my street cars w/o any problems. I use XP8s on the back of the track car and they are fine too. I have used XP10s on the front and they seem to wear quite a bit better than the XP12s...

I know tracking is expensive but a set of pads every weekend???

Seems that a lot of guys are using Mintecs in front and Brakeman 3s in the back. Anybody tried both and can give a comparison?

Thanks

Did you use new rotors? If the rotors have material from another brake pad manufacturer, that will cause problems.

I use 16s on the front, 10s or 8s (depending on track conditions) on the rear. Not trying to be a ****, but I am pretty sure I use my brakes harder than you do (we see 1.80 Gs on braking), and I go almost 5 weekends without replacing front pads, and a whole season before changing out rears.

What tracks are you on driving on? Some tracks are brutal on brakes.
Have you done anything to increase air flow to the brakes? We've done some massive ducting and at Road America the temps don't get high at all (surprisingly so).

Funny thing, but Gen 3/4 brakes are pretty bullet proof. I am surprised you are having problems, especially with Carbotech. I swear by them, and my competition swears at them!

 

[MTGTS]

I'm using XP12's up front. I got 2 days @ Sebring, Rd. Atlanta and Roebling each before they were done. I won't be surprised if I go through a set this weekend @ Daytona though.

 

[treesnake]

Did you use new rotors? If the rotors have material from another brake pad manufacturer, that will cause problems.

I use 16s on the front, 10s or 8s (depending on track conditions) on the rear. Not trying to be a ****, but I am pretty sure I use my brakes harder than you do (we see 1.80 Gs on braking), and I go almost 5 weekends without replacing front pads, and a whole season before changing out rears.

What tracks are you on driving on? Some tracks are brutal on brakes.
Have you done anything to increase air flow to the brakes? We've done some massive ducting and at Road America the temps don't get high at all (surprisingly so).

Funny thing, but Gen 3/4 brakes are pretty bullet proof. I am surprised you are having problems, especially with Carbotech. I swear by them, and my competition swears at them!

I imagine that you are braking harder than me. (no offense taken...) You are the guys I am hoping to hear from about this. You are describing the the kind of brake life I am expecting. Not sure what is wrong....
Like I said, I tried the 10s and they had minimal wear. They don't have quite the bite as the 12s though.

I used the 12s the first time at Putnam Park. I used them the second time, this past weekend, at Road America. I know Road America is ******* brakes. I have about 25% of pad left after this weekend.
Also, I am using Titanium backing plates on the pads
I am making pad wear comparisons with the other Vipers in our gang. They are running Mintec/Brakeman 3s.

As far as the rotors, I am using Eurotecks. I have used Carboteck pads exclusively with these rotors since new.
In addition, I installed the ACRX ducting system with the cutout fascia etc.

I am going to try a Mintec/ BM3 set up this weekend at Putnam and again at Road Atlanta in three weeks...

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Have your lap times improved using the Carbotech products? If you change the pads to Mintex/Brakeman and see less wear let us know if the times are the same etc. I have always said that if the pads, or rotors for that part are not seeing some wear that the system is not producing the same results as one that lasts forever. This is like the difference between Carbotechs and EBC. EBC's will last forever and not dust much, but they don't "work" worth a damn IMHO that is why I don't offer them. The Carbotech pads are the BEST I have used and I've seen drastic improvement at the track and at autocrosses with times to prove it in my personal cars. Do I wish they wore longer? sure, but not at the expense of performance and safety in these situations, after all you are taking risks every time your on a track and I want the BEST safety margin I can get if I'm pushing the envelope.

 

[treesnake]

Have your lap times improved using the Carbotech products? If you change the pads to Mintex/Brakeman and see less wear let us know if the times are the same etc. I have always said that if the pads, or rotors for that part are not seeing some wear that the system is not producing the same results as one that lasts forever. This is like the difference between Carbotechs and EBC. EBC's will last forever and not dust much, but they don't "work" worth a damn IMHO that is why I don't offer them. The Carbotech pads are the BEST I have used and I've seen drastic improvement at the track and at autocrosses with times to prove it in my personal cars. Do I wish they wore longer? sure, but not at the expense of performance and safety in these situations, after all you are taking risks every time your on a track and I want the BEST safety margin I can get if I'm pushing the envelope.

I couldn't agree more. I know there are a lot of variables. Look at the responses. Some guys change pads every event, some don't. Just trying to get an average.
I don't have anything to compare the Carbotechs to as I haven't used anything else on the track. I should have a somewhat accurate idea of the wear by using at the same track.

 

[vdogg]

I use Brakeman 3's I believe and get about 5 HPDE days out of the fronts, a few more out of the rears. Mainly Putnam, Autobahn, Mid Ohio tracks. I would get a whole season (8-10 days) out of pads on my BMW M Coupe. My thought is the Viper is just faster, a bit heavier, and therfore uses more pad?? I just added more $$ to the budget. Proper bedding and clean rotors helps extend the life a bit.

 

[David Pintaric]

Have your lap times improved using the Carbotech products? If you change the pads to Mintex/Brakeman and see less wear let us know if the times are the same etc. I have always said that if the pads, or rotors for that part are not seeing some wear that the system is not producing the same results as one that lasts forever. This is like the difference between Carbotechs and EBC. EBC's will last forever and not dust much, but they don't "work" worth a damn IMHO that is why I don't offer them. The Carbotech pads are the BEST I have used and I've seen drastic improvement at the track and at autocrosses with times to prove it in my personal cars. Do I wish they wore longer? sure, but not at the expense of performance and safety in these situations, after all you are taking risks every time your on a track and I want the BEST safety margin I can get if I'm pushing the envelope.

Thanks for chiming in, Mark.

I brake between the 3 and 4 marker going in to Turn Five at Road America. We are seeing about 165 MPH before I stomp on the brakes. I jsut cannot get to the 3 marker yet, I am not "there" yet, if you know what I mean!

I have had several competiting drivers comment (some not complimentary) on how late I brake. These were people in Porsches and BMWs, so therer was some good brake set-ups there.

I use Baer rotors with the 16s up from and 8 or 10s in the back. I don't know if I used a 12 in quite some time.

 

[treesnake]

Did you use new rotors? If the rotors have material from another brake pad manufacturer, that will cause problems.

I use 16s on the front, 10s or 8s (depending on track conditions) on the rear. Not trying to be a ****, but I am pretty sure I use my brakes harder than you do (we see 1.80 Gs on braking), and I go almost 5 weekends without replacing front pads, and a whole season before changing out rears.

What tracks are you on driving on? Some tracks are brutal on brakes.
Have you done anything to increase air flow to the brakes? We've done some massive ducting and at Road America the temps don't get high at all (surprisingly so).

Funny thing, but Gen 3/4 brakes are pretty bullet proof. I am surprised you are having problems, especially with Carbotech. I swear by them, and my competition swears at them!

Thanks for chiming in, Mark.

I brake between the 3 and 4 marker going in to Turn Five at Road America. We are seeing about 165 MPH before I stomp on the brakes. I jsut cannot get to the 3 marker yet, I am not "there" yet, if you know what I mean!

I have had several competiting drivers comment (some not complimentary) on how late I brake. These were people in Porsches and BMWs, so therer was some good brake set-ups there.

I use Baer rotors with the 16s up from and 8 or 10s in the back. I don't know if I used a 12 in quite some time.

This thread is not meant to be a negative slam on Carbotech. I am simply asking if this is about average wear on the XP12 pads.

Judging by your highlighted statement above, and the fact that you brake harder than I do, I am doing something wrong because you are getting 5X the life out of your Carbotech pads. My problem is that I haven't used BM3s or Mintecs or any other track pad for that matter. I don't have anything to compare to. I thought I would get opinions from those that have.

I ran this past weekend at Road America. I was hitting 160 going into turn 5 and was braking around 4 (depending on traffic). The funny thing is, I was told by the organizer of the event that he had several complaints against me for running up on the BMWs, Porsches'etc. coming into the corners. After reviewing the in car videos, it was decided that they had plenty of time to see me coming and to point me by.
Guess they just froze....

Don't you just love how intimidating and badazz the Viper looks and performs at the trackl

 

[Leslie]

I run hawk DTC 70's front/ in the rear in stoptech 6 piston calipwrs and stoptech 2 piece rotors, air ducts, ss lines

I got 6 weekends out of a set of pads and still have 40% left. I run in instructor group.

I love my bbk!

 

[David Pintaric]

This thread is not meant to be a negative slam on Carbotech. I am simply asking if this is about average wear on the XP12 pads.

Judging by your highlighted statement above, and the fact that you brake harder than I do, I am doing something wrong because you are getting 5X the life out of your Carbotech pads. My problem is that I haven't used BM3s or Mintecs or any other track pad for that matter. I don't have anything to compare to. I thought I would get opinions from those that have.

I ran this past weekend at Road America. I was hitting 160 going into turn 5 and was braking around 4 (depending on traffic). The funny thing is, I was told by the organizer of the event that he had several complaints against me for running up on the BMWs, Porsches'etc. coming into the corners. After reviewing the in car videos, it was decided that they had plenty of time to see me coming and to point me by.
Guess they just froze....

Don't you just love how intimidating and badazz the Viper looks and performs at the trackl

Well, I do get kind of defensive about Carbotech; the people who own it are like family to me!

I was thinking about it though, maybe my wear is more similar to yours than we initially thought. When I go to a race at a track I know, I go out a do a few laps in qualifying, than race for 45 miles. I can get several weeks like this. It may be that you and I are running the same amount, but you do yours in one weekend while I take 4-5 weeks.

 

[CA97GTS]

97 GTS-w/ ROE Gen 3/4 calipers up front, 40 mm piston upgrade rear, ROE 2 piece rotors, 18's all around, going to 888's soon
Intermediate driver - mid pack....
What Carbotechs are recommended ?

 

[treesnake]

Well, I do get kind of defensive about Carbotech; the people who own it are like family to me!

I was thinking about it though, maybe my wear is more similar to yours than we initially thought. When I go to a race at a track I know, I go out a do a few laps in qualifying, than race for 45 miles. I can get several weeks like this. It may be that you and I are running the same amount, but you do yours in one weekend while I take 4-5 weeks.

That's a very good point...

If I need to change pads every weekend,... so be it. Whatever it takes...

Regarding Mark J's question of "Am I running faster?" My answer is most definitely "yes"

The Carbotechs have a great feel and an uncompromising bite, IMO. I realize that such high performance has a drawback.
I guess all I can do is try to get a case discount on pads.....

I WILL NOT COMPROMISE PERFORMANCE to save a couple dollars...

I am going to try the Mintec/ BM3's this weekend at Putnam. This will be my 4th track event this year on that track. I used Carbotechs on my previous visits. I am fairly confident of the feel of the CTs on that track.
I am anxious to compare the difference between the two brands.

I am going to upgrade my rotors to the ACRX Brembos' this Winter. I understand the only pads that fit those rotors (w/o grinding the pad backing plate) are the PFCs. Guess I will be getting accustomed to another type of pad next year....

Oh well...

Thanks to all for the feedback. Experience is invaluable.
There is so much to learn about the track and getting faster.

 

[bluesrt]

tree- goin too slo can also cause pre-mature wear like you are stateing, just sayin

 

[treesnake]

tree- goin too slo can also cause pre-mature wear like you are stateing, just sayin

We'll see about that in a couple days..... .

 

[Magnus_]

Great thread.

I run the ACR rotors now with BM3's all around. At RA I brake between 3-4 into 5. I agree with David, the viper gen3 brakes are simply amazing. I have yet to see another car at the track that goes in as deep as I can go. Trying to get around a vette that has the same straight speeds is difficult as they brake so early into the turns it really slows down a late braking viper.

With the BM3's the only time I ever engage the ABS is just as i'm coming over the hill into 6 at RA.

I'm also thinking about upgrading the front pads to something with a little more bite for the next season. Please keep us posted treesnake.

Also, do you have any in-car vids? Here are some of mine: http://vimeo.com/user4830603

 

[treesnake]

Great thread.

I run the ACR rotors now with BM3's all around. At RA I brake between 3-4 into 5. I agree with David, the viper gen3 brakes are simply amazing. I have yet to see another car at the track that goes in as deep as I can go. Trying to get around a vette that has the same straight speeds is difficult as they brake so early into the turns it really slows down a late braking viper.

With the BM3's the only time I ever engage the ABS is just as i'm coming over the hill into 6 at RA.

I'm also thinking about upgrading the front pads to something with a little more bite for the next season. Please keep us posted treesnake.

Also, do you have any in-car vids? Here are some of mine: http://vimeo.com/user4830603

I started prepping the car last night. I noticed a little "spiderwebbing" on the rotors....

I don't want to bed a new set of pads to some rotors that need replacing so I plan to run the Carbotechs this weekend at Putnam.
Since the rotors need replacing, I have decided to move up one of my Winter upgrades and get the Brembo ACRX Rotors and pads. I was told that the new rotors and bigger pads will improve my braking to the point that I will run Mintecs on the rear now (instead of the front) to keep the pad "balance" with the front.

Better braking than we already have..... Cooollll !!!!!....
I'm sure to get in trouble for running up on the vettes, Bmws' now

MAGNUS...Your Vids look good. Like you, I was trying different lines, braking points etc. I took a couple rides on the candy too...
But like my veteran track buddies tell me, "gotta try different things, and push to the limit to feel the fastest line"....

 

[Boxer12]

What kind of times are you running at Putnam? I used PF1/BM3 combo there and ran in the low teens, with no excessive wear (never 'bed' PF1 pads...they are ready to go out of the box). SRT test drivers have done low teens there with whatever the stock pad is on the ACR. I have switched to PF1/PF2 combo, which is what the ACR-X uses, and like it better. PS-A lot of guys brake way too hard into T1 at Putnam...that can fry your brakes in a session. Once fried, they go fast.

 

[bluesrt]

is that total under a minute? what does low teens mean, just wondering at putnam on the whole lap time total

 

[Boxer12]

Low teens means 1:12's or thereabouts. Another possibility is that the OP is riding the brakes. If you are left foot brakers, then its easy to do.

 

[treesnake]

What kind of times are you running at Putnam? I used PF1/BM3 combo there and ran in the low teens, with no excessive wear (never 'bed' PF1 pads...they are ready to go out of the box). SRT test drivers have done low teens there with whatever the stock pad is on the ACR. I have switched to PF1/PF2 combo, which is what the ACR-X uses, and like it better. PS-A lot of guys brake way too hard into T1 at Putnam...that can fry your brakes in a session. Once fried, they go fast.

I am running in the mid teens at Putnam. Upper 2:30s at Autobahn...

Going into turn one at Putnam, I touch the brakes enough to drop the front down to grab the corner.
I do however "two foot" that turn, to keep speed up... Otherwise, all braking is done with my right foot.

I do realize that there are a lot of determining factors regarding this subject. Again, this was not a slam on CT pads. I was just asking if this was about "normal" wear on a Viper. To get a more accurate answer I suppose I should narrow the field down to guys running in the mid teens at Putnam.
Even then, I know it is subgective....

After some more searching for info, I found out that I will be trying the PF1 combo at Road Atlanta next month. I don't really have a choice because I am told that the PF1 pad is the only pad that will fit the ACRX Brembo front rotor...

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Seems like you are getting about the same usage as I am with the Carbotechs, and the times you are running means you are in the top 1/3rd or better of what guys run at those tracks. The key is faster track times, faster brake usage and speedy Dave might get a bit longer than you but his car should be a bit lighter, I would imagine. Overall, having used Brakemans for years, and switched to Carbotechs now, I am getting a bit longer wear with the Carbotechs with similar progressive feel.

Lots of advice , here, but the toughest part is folks all drive at different speeds and some who get great pad wear are not punishing the brakes as hard as others. Also some pads last , but they eat rotors , so I discount those in a hurry. With track time, one often gets more lapping done than a racer does on a weekend -- drivers get one qualifying session and then a race, whereas you can get 4-5 sessions per day on a open track event.

As noted speed means wear and it sure appears to me you just have the common situation of going fast, so things wear out faster.