Death of the Viper

[black mamba1]

First and foremost let me say that I love the Gen 5, both the exterior and the interior. You have to understand that no matter what SRT came up with, at least half to a third of we Viper owners were gonna be pissed. You cant have 640-700 hp cars without traction and stability control and expect to sell enough cars to make this a sustainable business model. Keep in mind several Viper owners were ready to bomb Chrysler headquarters when Chrysler had tne audacity to put anti lock brakes, air conditioning, and power windows on the car.

Now, for the reality check. If the new Viper has a base price of more than $110,000, this car is doomed. I understand dropping the Dodge brand because what made the Ford GT an unsustainable business model what 1.) the outrageous price and 2.) very few people are gonna pay over $95,000 for a Ford...any kind of Ford on a consistent enough basis to justify is manufacture.

If you remember I recently wrote and article on Viper Philosophy and having a 640 hp Viper or even a 660 hp Viper is one of main reasons I wrote that thread. See, most of you guys that are pissed are pissed because that Ford has a stock Mustang coming out with 650 hp...nevermind the fact that that Mustang will be closed to two tons. But...its for bragging rights. Also, unless you get the track version of this Viper, the Corvette ZR-1 will still have a better hp to weight ratio meaning that while the Viper looks infinitely better than the Zr1, the Gen 5 Viper owners will still not be a lock to embarass Zr1 owners in any kind of race. The slight power and weight difference between the two can be offset by having a full tank of gas, being overweight (like me) or having a passenger in your Viper. What SRT has done is made the Viper lighter and more powerful without spending tens of millions of dollars..which means it will continue to dominate the road courses...even moreso now. But again, I bet there are fewer than 20 people in this forum that can handle the Viper at that level of racing and that level of performance...and few will ever push their Vipers to that level of performance or track their cars at all.

So, what does that mean? That means that ********* Viper owners want a 8.9 liter V-10 making 700-800 hp off the lot without traction control, stability control, cruise control, rear wheel drive only, and maybe even without anti lock brakes. And they want this car to beat practically every single other sports car from a major car manufacturer in roll ons, road courses, drag races, stopping distance, and etc....They want the car to look menacing as hell, and still cost around $100,000. Im sorry guys, but thats a death wish for most drivers and an unsustainable business model for any major car company.

The Porsche 911 turbo kicks the ZR1's ass from 0-160 mph or so with over 100 less hp. I dare say we have entered the era of the new sports car...and to make a reliable naturally aspirated sports car that is gonna dominate most other sports cars is gonna bring a sticker price of over $200k to be a sustainable business model. The glory days of the total dominance of the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Viper are gone. Yes, the Gen 5 will dominate almost any other car in a road course...but thats gonna take a professional driver.

I love the Gen 5 Viper...but I am not paying $137,000 for a Viper with only 640 hp...Im just not. And most of the Viper owners I know are not gonna pay that either. I think people who can afford a $100,000 Viper and people who can afford a $137,000 Viper are two totally different demographics...and I think the Viper demographic is gonna peak at a sticker price of about $110k, and thats if we get the power we want. The Gen 5 has disappointed most in the power department and if SRT expects to charge $137,000 for this Viper or any mainstream Viper....

.....then we will very soon witness the death of the Viper brand as we know it.
....

 

[Roadtrip]

....

Now, for the reality check. If the new Viper has a base price of more than $110,000, this car is doomed. I understand dropping the Dodge brand because what made the Ford GT an unsustainable business model what 1.) the outrageous price and 2.) very few people are gonna pay over $95,000 for a Ford...any kind of Ford on a consistent enough basis to justify is manufacture...

I love the Gen 5 Viper...but I am not paying $137,000 for a Viper with only 640 hp...Im just not. And most of the Viper owners I know are not gonna pay that either. I think people who can afford a $100,000 Viper and people who can afford a $137,000 Viper are two totally different demographics...and I think the Viper demographic is gonna peak at a sticker price of about $110k, and thats if we get the power we want. The Gen 5 has disappointed most in the power department and if SRT expects to charge $137,000 for this Viper or any mainstream Viper....

.....then we will very soon witness the death of the Viper brand as we know it.
....

You are seriously misinformed.

Ford didn't kill the GT because it was unsustainable. It had a few things going against it... As of 2007, the new federal laws mandated that an A Pillar that could not be as close to the head of the driver/passenger as the GT had. It was originally supposed to be a shorter run, but actually they increased it due to demand... It was profitable from everything I've read. The economy forced Ford to focus on smaller more fuel efficient cars.

I own one, NEVER ONCE, did the brand name ever equate in whether or not I wanted it at it's sticker price. The quality of a GT is unbelievable, even 6 years after it was produced it would put most modern cars to shame. It too, was hand made and I feel the new Viper will exclude many here, it will not kill the name or brand...

I hate when people compare stats of weight, 0-60, quarter mile and HP to measure cost... what a silly argument. The GT was a measure of quality, speed and drivability. Although it had many competitors that were better or equal at less cost, I would still never trade my GT for a newer Z06 or Nissan GTR... EVER!

Plus it seems a bit premature to thrash the price when it seems to have not been officially announced yet?

 

[Joe Dozzo]

Amen Roadtrip. The Ford GT set a standard for American sports cars that has yet to bet met, let alone exceeded.

That said, I believe the 2013 Viper GTS is going to give the GT a real run for its money.

 

[Roadtrip]

Amen Roadtrip. The Ford GT set a standard for American sports cars that has yet to bet met, let alone exceeded.

That said, I believe the 2013 Viper GTS is going to give the GT a real run for its money.

As it should, 6 years later. I not only hope it does, but I'd like to see them sitting next to each other one day.

 

[black mamba1]

Personally I love the Ford GT and when we conducted a poll in this forum a few years back and asked what other sports car would most other Viper owners own the Ford GT won. I personallly cannot afford a Ford GT, but in my discussions with a few others at car shows, there are people who mentioned that they would never pay that amount of money for a Ford, just like there are several people who would never pay the Zr1 price for a Chevy or for any Corvette.

I love the Ford GT and think its seriously badass and wish Ford had continued the car if even on a very limited basis.

I really hope my post is premature on the price for the new Viper. I do think Chrysler has gambled somewhat on this car and is trying to reach a broader demographic and I think that is really the main reason the Viper dropped the Dodge name. Dodge is Chryslers no nonsense blue collar bottom line ********* vehicle brand....the Lexus and martini crowd simply feel Dodge is beneath them. If the new Viper does come in at $137k SRT will definitely need a broader buying base to sustain the Viper line, I think most ********* Viper owners are not paying that amount.

Keep in mind the Gen 4 Vipers barely moved off showroom floors...and that was after a 90 hp increase. A 40 hp increase and a throwback look wont justify a 28% price increase. And..while I like this new Viper...I dont like it anymore than I liked the Gen 4 in the looks department. To me a black Gen 4 ACR with a red stripe is the sickest most aggressive meanest looking car to ever grace the streets of America. And its performance at Nurbergring backed up its mean ass looks.

 

[Roadtrip]

Personally I love the Ford GT and when we conducted a poll in this forum a few years back and asked what other sports car would most other Viper owners own the Ford GT won. I personallly cannot afford a Ford GT, but in my discussions with a few others at car shows, there are people who mentioned that they would never pay that amount of money for a Ford, just like there are several people who would never pay the Zr1 price for a Chevy or for any Corvette.

I love the Ford GT and think its seriously badass and wish Ford had continued the car if even on a very limited basis.

Well, it was a skunkworks car and not to surprisingly, so is the new Viper. Dodge has had a terrible reputation for quality in the past, yet look at all of us drooling over this new beast... If you add a nominal cost of living increase, the price may not be as bad as you think. The point of having a certain price point is to keep the product exclusive.. I remember reading about Enzo Ferrari regarding his oddball decisions of limited production cars. He basically said that "we determine how many we can sell and reduce it by one..."

At $137k (if it's true, which I doubt) it is possible that Dodge doesn't want to sell more than they can produce... Perhaps the price is designed to reduce production numbers... One never knows though.

 

[TrackAire]

Black Mamba1,

I think what you say would have been true 18 years ago....but we now have a global economy. Since this new Viper looks pretty damn good and if the performance is as good as I think it will be, you'll be seeing a lot of Chinese, Middle Eastern and Russian demand. Those people don't look at the final hp number as the end all, be all. Spending $130k to be the first guy in your area, business world, etc to own the new Viper...thats a bargain to the rich guys overseas. They don't care if the car has traction control, stability control, etc....they want a beautiful piece of equipment that defines exclusivity and puts them in a place of status among their peers.

Remember, these are the same countries that will pay hundreds of dollars for a used pair of Levis jeans. Short of a 599 or new F12, what other NA car is going to keep up with the new Viper? Although we buy a lot of our crap from China, the rest of the world holds a lot of American made goods in very high regard (again that status symbol thing). The made in Detroit thing does mean something to others around the world. If the performance numbers match the looks, the demand for this car is going to get silly.

I respectfully disagree with your comment about the Viper needing a professional driver to be fast...any car with over 500 hp is going to need a very good driver to be fast. Why, because s%#t happens very quickly at those hp levels, so the driving talent has to match the reactions the car (any high hp car) can produce. Thats why traction control, stability control, etc isn't really going to matter regarding the driver losing touch with the soul of the car. With 640 hp, light weight and the correct gearing your going to be saying prayers for your soul if you aren't good enough to control the speed and how fast it gets to the next corner.

Twenty years ago we didn't have Youtube, live feeds, etc like we do today. Yesterday, people with means from around the world have now put the Viper on a watch list as a potential car to buy in 2013. We may have lost a little bit of the Viper of old, but yesterday the new Viper went viral on a global scale which will keep it alive for many years to come.

Cheers,
George

 

[black mamba1]

TrackAire,

I really hope you are right. However, what I've noticed is that the really rich guys that buy Vipers are a rather fickle crowd for the most part. They get a Viper, tire of it, then twin turbo charge the car...realize how insane that kind of power really is...then they sell the car. If the Viper brand can survive without its base demographic by grasping more of the broader market I think thats great. The Gen 4 failed to do that probably because of what you mentioned, it didnt have traction control, stability control, or cruise control. I know for a fact that I would never even entertain buying the Viper until anti lock brakes were added to the car.

At the car shows and at the Viper gatherings most Viper owners are primarily a good mixture of hardworking blue collar and middle to upper middle class white collar folks...I would prefer to keep it that way. Not sure how I would mix with the Aston Martin and Ferrari crowd...I hate wine and I only drink beer I can get at a 7-11 and that doesnt come with a pamphlet to learn where it came from.

But I just gotta be honest...I would get a Gen 4 ACR and the MOPAR package before I dropped $140k on this Viper. I would have to see some kickass stats before I paid that price.

 

[black mamba1]

Do you thnk if the C7 Vette made some decent improvements and had a 40 hp power increase for its base model but came it at $72,000 do you think the Vette brand would survive as we know it? I dont think so and I know Im comparing apples to oranges. I love this Viper but I would have to see some kickass performance data before I dropped $140k on this car...Im not gonna spend an extra $40k on a car just to be the first one to have it. SRT impressed me with the Gen 4 performance wise...I just hope they've made more impressive changes worth $40k over the Gen 4.

Personally Im ecstatic the Viper is back, I think SRT did a great job on the car. The only thing that bothers me is the price...and I guess this is one of those cases that if you have to ask then you cant afford it.

 

[sween]

To be so worked up over a price that hasn't been announced is ridiculous.

In the case that The GTS is 137K, I wont be surprised if the SRT is around 120K or less. I think there is going to be a serious price difference. If they were going to be around the same price why would they have different hoods? I think its because it'll be easy to differentiate and spot a GTS, easy to show that one person spent more money on their viper.

 

[black mamba1]

I dont think its ridiculous at all to be worked up over price. One of the first things car manufacturers routinely do when upgrading models is leak info on price, especially for limited edition models like Vipers or Ford GT's. I think its ridiculous to withold one of the most critical pieces of information on the new Viper, which is the price tag. They could have or should have at least given us a range in price...kinda like you suggested; they could have at least said "the new Viper will range in price from $115,000 to $150,000 depending on the packages offered."

I think its crazy to price the new SRT out of the range of most ********* and loyal Viper supporters...the guys who've been there, get Viper magazine, go to the races, participate in the cruises, support VCA...go to VOI, etc. Its hard to get excited about a car you cannot afford and leaving us in the dark on the price range kinda dampens the excitement factor to a certain degree. Now, we dont know if the new Viper will cost $140k, but not knowing what the damn thing costs is just as frustrating as not knowing what it looked like or the power...even more frustrating now that we've all seen the car. This new Viper is a BEAST...there is nothing else on the road like it. But what difference does that make if most of us cannot afford the damn thing. And although its been a year or so since I road hard with Viper world, most of the guys I've met in the Viper community are NOT going to pay $140k for any car. Yes, there are a few guys that have Lambo's, Ferrari's, Porsches, etc in their garage with their Viper. Hell, I had a 06 Bentley GT coupe in the garage with my Viper...but even then I still wouldnt pay $140k for a Viper.

The Gen 4 is still a very rare Viper..only having a 3 yr run and produced in very low numbers and a few are still sitting in show room floors with less than 100 miles on them. I'd pay $60k for a Gen 4, spend 10-15k to get it up to 700 hp and call it a day.

 

[swexlin]

Mamba, you make some good points. However, I would like to say something about the "Aston Martin and Ferrari crowd". I ( and a few other Vipers) hang with one of these local crowds at a C&C on Saturday mornings. They are nicest group of CAR guys first - and all of them like the Viper. Some of the coolest dudes I know. We're talking guys who own 458s, 430 Scuds, DB9s, Porsche 911 TT. I go on drive with these guys, and it's a helleva lot o fun! My point is, I have NEVER had anyone say anthing negative about my Viper from any car group.

However, a Gen 5 is out of my reach for years, if ever.

 

[black mamba1]

Swexlin, I in no way meant to belittle owners of those fabulous cars you just mentioned. I love all those cars and all the guys I've met from those car groups at car shows and cruises are great. I just think that $137k for a Viper is beyond the reach of most current Viper owners...and it makes me nervous if Chrysler is betting the farm in hoping to reach a broader demographic while possibly alienating tmost of the Viper faithful.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

I think our Viper is just growing up. It's more refined and moving towards more sufisticated buyers. For myself, I sold my last viper because I did not enjoy it anymore as a daily driver. I'm 49 now and don't want to have to yell at my wife to have a conversation or worry about stopping For to long because the interior was going to get heat soaked. My dream cars now are Aston Martin DB9 and Ferrari 599 GT and I think the Gen V is my kind of Viper that I can drive every day for a lot less money. Kudos SRT

 

[PDCjonny]

I'm 49 now and don't want to have to yell at my wife to have a conversation or worry about stopping For to long because the interior was going to get heat soaked.

Those issues ended a long time ago.
Welcome to 2008.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I cant afford this car but Im having trouble understanding is why do some of you feel that with all this improvement should SRT sell this Viper for the same or around the same price of the outgoing models?

This car is leaps and bounds better than the old car. Carbon Fiber, Magnesium, Aluminum, full leather high end interior, 640+hp, FIFTY % stiffer, much much better gearing in the tranny and rear end, high end Harmon Kardon 18 speaker system, indash data center, much better looking light weight rim choices..How could they possibly sell a car of this calibur for the same or around the same price of the old Vipers?????

What business sense would that make???This car cost a hell of a lot more to bring to market than any of the older Vipers as the fit finish and attention to detail seems to show. To me its ludacrous to expect this car to be sold at anywhere near 95-100k. If they do sell it at that level then Id be stunned at how they could and still make a profit on such a low volume car. To me even at 137k its a good value given what the competition offers at that price point. Try to get an interior like that, and exotic looks and performance from a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo and you will double/triple that price respectively. What am I missing? Maybe Im out of touch.

 

[DrumrBoy]

It'd be great to see the marketing plan (to really know) but I'd speculate that a large percentage of the Viper community will spring for the Gen V at the higher price. The folks who stretch for Gen 1's and 2s at $35 won't be in the market, but they weren't the target for Gen IV's either. Whether or not we can afford 'em in year 1, or have to wait until they're 4 -6 years old, most love the look and the tech and will stay a part of the Viper community and not feel disenfranchised by the price point (jealous maybe!).

 

[ssjcreeper]

I'm sorry, but I don't want the Gen V to sell 30k units a year. I don't want it to be another Corvette or Porsche, selling to the masses. Every swinging d*ck around here has a Z06 or a Porsche... yawn. If the market is there to sustain production in the neighborhood of prior generations - that is precisely what I'd like to see. This is a hand built, 640hp American icon and I enjoy having a vehicle with some exclusivity. It's not in the financial cards for me to rush out and drop $130k on a 2013 right now... but in 3 years I hope I can pick one up for a reasonable price from someone that did. Let's face it, many of us have gotten into our Vipers this way.

 

[PatentLaw]

First and foremost let me say that I love the Gen 5, both the exterior and the interior. You have to understand that no matter what SRT came up with, at least half to a third of we Viper owners were gonna be pissed. You cant have 640-700 hp cars without traction and stability control and expect to sell enough cars to make this a sustainable business model. Keep in mind several Viper owners were ready to bomb Chrysler headquarters when Chrysler had tne audacity to put anti lock brakes, air conditioning, and power windows on the car.

Now, for the reality check. If the new Viper has a base price of more than $110,000, this car is doomed. I understand dropping the Dodge brand because what made the Ford GT an unsustainable business model what 1.) the outrageous price and 2.) very few people are gonna pay over $95,000 for a Ford...any kind of Ford on a consistent enough basis to justify is manufacture.

If you remember I recently wrote and article on Viper Philosophy and having a 640 hp Viper or even a 660 hp Viper is one of main reasons I wrote that thread. See, most of you guys that are pissed are pissed because that Ford has a stock Mustang coming out with 650 hp...nevermind the fact that that Mustang will be closed to two tons. But...its for bragging rights. Also, unless you get the track version of this Viper, the Corvette ZR-1 will still have a better hp to weight ratio meaning that while the Viper looks infinitely better than the Zr1, the Gen 5 Viper owners will still not be a lock to embarass Zr1 owners in any kind of race. The slight power and weight difference between the two can be offset by having a full tank of gas, being overweight (like me) or having a passenger in your Viper. What SRT has done is made the Viper lighter and more powerful without spending tens of millions of dollars..which means it will continue to dominate the road courses...even moreso now. But again, I bet there are fewer than 20 people in this forum that can handle the Viper at that level of racing and that level of performance...and few will ever push their Vipers to that level of performance or track their cars at all.

So, what does that mean? That means that ********* Viper owners want a 8.9 liter V-10 making 700-800 hp off the lot without traction control, stability control, cruise control, rear wheel drive only, and maybe even without anti lock brakes. And they want this car to beat practically every single other sports car from a major car manufacturer in roll ons, road courses, drag races, stopping distance, and etc....They want the car to look menacing as hell, and still cost around $100,000. Im sorry guys, but thats a death wish for most drivers and an unsustainable business model for any major car company.

The Porsche 911 turbo kicks the ZR1's ass from 0-160 mph or so with over 100 less hp. I dare say we have entered the era of the new sports car...and to make a reliable naturally aspirated sports car that is gonna dominate most other sports cars is gonna bring a sticker price of over $200k to be a sustainable business model. The glory days of the total dominance of the Gen 1 and Gen 2 Viper are gone. Yes, the Gen 5 will dominate almost any other car in a road course...but thats gonna take a professional driver.

I love the Gen 5 Viper...but I am not paying $137,000 for a Viper with only 640 hp...Im just not. And most of the Viper owners I know are not gonna pay that either. I think people who can afford a $100,000 Viper and people who can afford a $137,000 Viper are two totally different demographics...and I think the Viper demographic is gonna peak at a sticker price of about $110k, and thats if we get the power we want. The Gen 5 has disappointed most in the power department and if SRT expects to charge $137,000 for this Viper or any mainstream Viper....

.....then we will very soon witness the death of the Viper brand as we know it.
....

Black Mamba,

While we have disagreed in the past, I think of all of the threads started in the last few months, yours is the most compelling of arguments. While it is true, as others have stated, the GT was ended for at least one Federal mandate, there may have been others as well.

On to the Viper.....

1) The price of the car has not been made official.
2) Your statements above are mute if the car is 85k. Everyone will buy it, compared to the competition.
3) Your statements are true if the car is 130k. I have had several conversations with others on this board about how the typical Viper owner has changed over the last 5 or 6 years. Although I don't have data to support it, I think that a high price will kill this car...forever. They will make very few of them.
4) My fear is that the SRT Viper and GTS Viper will be used as a marketing platform for Ferrari. The "cheap mans Ferrari". It will lose its luster and will be just another model to be thrown away.
5) As far as the comments above for new money coming into the country, like from Russia, wanting to buy this car......Don't hold your breath. I don't see many Russians posting on here. If it were a Mercedes, then they would be flying off the shelves. A Viper is not about "status". Other brands do that.
6) Most of the posters on here are posers anyway. They drive around with their aero enhanced models, but never ever go to the track. Boy racers. They are just upset now that the car looks more proper and they will play in some other playpen now that the new model is out. Their car is not the best, so they will downplay the new model because it is not theirs.
7) This model is really true to the roots of the vehicle. It is the people who have changed.

Remember the days when people actually helped out one another on the forum?
Remember the days when people who were not official members would help out with "how to's" and people benefited from it? Now, that information was taken and you have to be a "member" to even access this freely given information.
Remember when you could have a logical discussion about the different Generations of the car without people essentially telling an older car owner that their car was junk?
Even more basic, remember the days (at least in the Northeast) where you could go to a gathering and people would actually drive and attend? Now, people do not even care.

I fear, as do you, that this will be the last model. At least we have it and can enjoy it. They did a great job.

 

[fastmd]

I personally don't see a big difference between writing a check for $110K and $137K. The issue for me is that at a $137K, a lot of different cars come back into the mix. The new 911 turbo will be starting around there, and I am sure that the SRT team feel that is one of their marks, per speaking with members of the team at the Gala. For this price point they needed the updated interior(what I like best about the car). When I bought my ACR in 2008, nothing was even close at $104K. That car will stay till I see the new ACR(what I am holding out for), I will probably buy the new GTS for my wife, as she loves it.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Ralph understands where your heads are at and he may have a SC kits or twin turbo kits in the works for factory mopar add-on's. Look forward.

 

[Bobpantax]

The media has decided already. The Gen V is an overwhelming hit. If part of the Viper Nation does not like it or has to settle for the SRT Viper version ( lighter and probably faster)because they cannot afford the SRT Viper GTS, so be it. The car will sell very well and probably be hard to get for awhile.

It was the intent to bring in an additional group of buyers ( too many cars in dealer inventory being discounted - not a good thing if the Viper was to survive) and I think that time will prove that SRT probably succeeded beyond their expectations.

The car is incredible. SRT earned and deserves the success of a hit. They went through some pretty scary times during and after the bankruptcy. Speaking of the bankruptcy, some posters in various threads might want to keep in mind how difficult it was for a group of dedicated gearheads and car fanatics to weather Mercedes, the three headed dog and the bankruptcy. My hat is off to them. The Gen V is an extraordinary achievement.

 

[mnc2886]

Before anyone tries to compare value to the Gen IV, lets not forget it didn't sell that well at it's price point. I also remember reading that the Gen III coupes didn't exactly fly off the shelves either. I would like to hear from people like Pemberton and Bernie on where they feel it should be. Hell, they were the ones trying to sell them. I personally think that even the fully loaded GTS will sit if it is over the MSRP of the Gen IV ACR.

I will say this though, I got the impression that keeping the cost of the Viper down was a huge focus. Ralph made many comments about learning how to build low volume cars. He said learning this is what "afforded the new Viper" to have the interior that it does.

Lastly, if they intend to compete with Porshe and ZR1 price wise, I can say I've been car shopping with some of my friends for those cars and it is really easy to get them to discount 15-20%. I hope they realize that.

 

[fastmd]

Before anyone tries to compare value to the Gen IV, lets not forget it didn't sell that well at it's price point. I also remember reading that the Gen III coupes didn't exactly fly off the shelves either. I would like to hear from people like Pemberton and Bernie on where they feel it should be. Hell, they were the ones trying to sell them. I personally think that even the fully loaded GTS will sit if it is over the MSRP of the Gen IV ACR.

I will say this though, I got the impression that keeping the cost of the Viper down was a huge focus. Ralph made many comments about learning how to build low volume cars. He said learning this is what "afforded the new Viper" to have the interior that it does.

Lastly, if they intend to compete with Porshe and ZR1 price wise, I can say I've been car shopping with some of my friends for those cars and it is really easy to get them to discount 15-20%. I hope they realize that.

They do not discount new model 911 turbos 15-20%, that is complete BS.

The Gen IV ACR came out at the peak of the economic crisis in 2008, much different time...

 

[weeten]

I am confused as to why people are even comparing Vipers to Mustangs...There is no comparison there (No offense to Stangs, I love them).

Who cares if the Stang has more HP. Its forced induction. Get over the HP. Try and look at the big picture and how significantly this car has been improved in all aspects.

 

[swexlin]

Black Mamba,

While we have disagreed in the past, I think of all of the threads started in the last few months, yours is the most compelling of arguments. While it is true, as others have stated, the GT was ended for at least one Federal mandate, there may have been others as well.

On to the Viper.....

1) The price of the car has not been made official.
2) Your statements above are mute if the car is 85k. Everyone will buy it, compared to the competition.
3) Your statements are true if the car is 130k. I have had several conversations with others on this board about how the typical Viper owner has changed over the last 5 or 6 years. Although I don't have data to support it, I think that a high price will kill this car...forever. They will make very few of them.
4) My fear is that the SRT Viper and GTS Viper will be used as a marketing platform for Ferrari. The "cheap mans Ferrari". It will lose its luster and will be just another model to be thrown away.
5) As far as the comments above for new money coming into the country, like from Russia, wanting to buy this car......Don't hold your breath. I don't see many Russians posting on here. If it were a Mercedes, then they would be flying off the shelves. A Viper is not about "status". Other brands do that.
6) Most of the posters on here are posers anyway. They drive around with their aero enhanced models, but never ever go to the track. Boy racers. They are just upset now that the car looks more proper and they will play in some other playpen now that the new model is out. Their car is not the best, so they will downplay the new model because it is not theirs.
7) This model is really true to the roots of the vehicle. It is the people who have changed.

Remember the days when people actually helped out one another on the forum?
Remember the days when people who were not official members would help out with "how to's" and people benefited from it? Now, that information was taken and you have to be a "member" to even access this freely given information.
Remember when you could have a logical discussion about the different Generations of the car without people essentially telling an older car owner that their car was junk?
Even more basic, remember the days (at least in the Northeast) where you could go to a gathering and people would actually drive and attend? Now, people do not even care.

I fear, as do you, that this will be the last model. At least we have it and can enjoy it. They did a great job.

Patent, this is one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts I have read on this forum in a long time, and I applaud you for writing it. I've only been a member of the Viper community for a couple years, but I've seen the attitudes on the forums change in even that short period of time.

 

[v10enomous]

The car is not all new and the drivetrain is not all new and they didn't have to spend anything to build the plant. This car is not by any means a clean sheet design. As incedrible as it is the Gen V is just a warming over of an existing design. The labor is probably being drawn from a surplus so if they up the production they should be able to keep the cost down becuase it's not like they need to recover a billion in R&D or startup.

I cant afford this car but Im having trouble understanding is why do some of you feel that with all this improvement should SRT sell this Viper for the same or around the same price of the outgoing models?

This car is leaps and bounds better than the old car. Carbon Fiber, Magnesium, Aluminum, full leather high end interior, 640+hp, FIFTY % stiffer, much much better gearing in the tranny and rear end, high end Harmon Kardon 18 speaker system, indash data center, much better looking light weight rim choices..How could they possibly sell a car of this calibur for the same or around the same price of the old Vipers?????

What business sense would that make???This car cost a hell of a lot more to bring to market than any of the older Vipers as the fit finish and attention to detail seems to show. To me its ludacrous to expect this car to be sold at anywhere near 95-100k. If they do sell it at that level then Id be stunned at how they could and still make a profit on such a low volume car. To me even at 137k its a good value given what the competition offers at that price point. Try to get an interior like that, and exotic looks and performance from a Porsche/Ferrari/Lambo and you will double/triple that price respectively. What am I missing? Maybe Im out of touch.

 

[PDCjonny]

For what it's worth, I have already had two guys text me (one has a high end Mercedes and one a Gallardo) and ask me what
dealer to contact to get on the list for the new car. They don't care what the price is it's irrelevant.
Maybe it's the new "car show buzz" and everybody's all psyched up but that's very telling.
These guys are precisely what SRT was shooting for.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Those issues ended a long time ago. Welcome to 2008.

You got me. Nicer interior and smoother driving as well. I put many miles driving my Vipers Driving around by myself, on and off track, the interior was to cramped for myself and a friend of equal size. I like my friends but I don't want to be that close to them and my wife really love the Vipers but we drove my 2002 suburban most of the time because it was so much more comfortable. I'm just saying I'm ready for this gen V and I'm glad their not talking about removing the radio, AC and windows to make it faster 0-60mph. But that's me. We have cobras to by for those guys.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The car is not all new and the drivetrain is not all new and they didn't have to spend anything to build the plant. This car is not by any means a clean sheet design. As incedrible as it is the Gen V is just a warming over of an existing design. The labor is probably being drawn from a surplus so if they up the production they should be able to keep the cost down becuase it's not like they need to recover a billion in R&D or startup.

Well alright! This makes sense.