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Factory supercharged V-10 in development?

Discussion in 'Generation V Discussions / SRT Coupe, GTS, GTC, AC' started by kdaviper, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

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    Maybe just hearsay, but Allpar member JRS200x suggests that SRT is working on a supercharged version of the Viper V-10. It would jive well with Ralph's comments on the forged internals, and a good way to make ridiculous power from the current engine.
     
  2. viper GTS-R

    viper GTS-R Enthusiast

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    Allpar also suggests that Jeep will be first to launch a 2013 grand cherokee SRT to the moon before Porsche does.

    --RS
     
  3. JAY

    JAY Enthusiast

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    I have also heard the same Rumours :D :eater:
     
  4. FastMatt

    FastMatt Enthusiast

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    it's the only way it's going to be able to run with the C7 ZR1
     
  5. lxadeuce

    lxadeuce Enthusiast

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    when are you people going to learn to spell correctly? It's RUMORS! LOL
     
  6. JAY

    JAY Enthusiast

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    The English Language Originated in England ! , and Thus is correct .......lol ! Just like Colours ! :)
     
  7. speedracervr4

    speedracervr4 Enthusiast

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    That hasn't even came out yet....
     
  8. VENOM V

    VENOM V Enthusiast

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    I know this goes against the grain of some, but I'm not against a supercharged ACR, if SRT decided to go that direction. Plenty of engineering challenges I'm sure, but it would be a force to be reckoned with. Brakes and tires need a tweak too, as we all know.
     
  9. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

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    Maybe they'll have a NA ACR and a Supercharged Superveloce (or something along those lines)
     
  10. JAY

    JAY Enthusiast

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    Options are allways good ! Win Win ! :2tu:
     
  11. KenricGTS

    KenricGTS Viper Owner

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    With factory supercharger a easy 740 hp! Here's hoping SRT will supercharge. I agree to compete with the new zr1 that will be improved and supercharged. Viper needs to have Ceramic brakes and forced induction.
     
  12. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    I do not belive that supercharging the V10 by the factory is in the cards for the Viper. The rumor does not make any business sense. SRT, at least at the moment, is a new and emerging Brand with a limited budget. If you read Sergio M's recent comments on Allpar, which include comments about the economics of V10s and V12s, I seriously doubt any budget for development and certification of a supercharged V10 engine would be approved. On the other hand, we know that Mopar will be coming out with an open code controller for the Gen V. This means that it will only be a matter of time before the aftermarket develops a supercharger kit for the car. If it is a centrifugal kit, the X brace might not be in the way. For an Eaton application, the X brace would have to be replaced with a reinforced square brace or something similar. Other changes might be needed depending on the power increase.

    The bottom line is that developing a supercharged V10 is an expensive proposition and changing other components of the car to provide the required dependability and durability for an OEM car with the power level involved would also be costly. Keep in mind that the Corvette ZR1 engine, in a detuned state, has found its way into the CTS-V Cadillacs and the ZL1 Camaro. So Chevy invested the money and used the engine across multiple products. The Viper V10 is not used outside the Viper. It is a miracle that SRT was able to convince the bean counters that the V10 should even continue in today's tight business environment. We may love it but the strongly rumored 6.2 liter supercharged V8 hemi engine that has allegedly been under development for a number of years could easily be used across product lines like the ZR1 engine is used. The Viper variant would achieve the top HP and TQ. I am not saying this will happen but from a business point of view, notwithstanding the die hard V10 lovers, it can make sense.
     
  13. 09 Venom

    09 Venom Enthusiast

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    Dont expect a big jump in HP from the C7 ZR1. Chevy only made a mild 15hp increase in the base Vette and improved the car in other areas. Same will be done with the ZR1
     
  14. troublemaker

    troublemaker Enthusiast

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    From a business perspective as far as profit goes I wouldn't see this move making much sense. But take the Vette as an example, I wonder how many actually buy the base model Vette purely because of the performance of the top end models that cost twice as much and sell poorly. You are creating a flagship car that is there to purely keep up with other top end models, not to purely make money. The lower end models is where I believe the profit margins are base on quantity. If you lose money on the flagships but its helps selling the lower end models which more than offsets the loss, it can make sense. Out of 11,647 Vettes built last year, only 404 were ZR1s. I see the current Gen V being the Z06 of the vipers, so if the model makes any sense, there would need to be higher end models and lower end models. The lower end models are where the profit is shown. I honestly think for the new business model SRT is hoping to pull off we are going to see many more models and price levels than there has been prior. The Viper has never been a major money maker for Dodge, they kept it alive for a reason, not to follow the same formula is they have in the past. If people see a $150,000 Viper performing and winning and can get into a car that looks the same for a fraction of the cost they would sell.
     
  15. chorps

    chorps Enthusiast

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    If Chrysler follows through with a factory supercharger, it will likely be offered (if not standard) on all Vipers. I think the ACR is too small of a business case. I'm pretty sure they were testing something in the 750+ hp range in the last couple of years.
     
  16. strykergts

    strykergts Enthusiast

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    It would make far more sense that SRT would offer the supercharger as part of a "stage" package similar to previous generations of SRT vehicle offerings. It would also go well with the new v10's forged internals and being "underdressed" statements.
     
  17. ViperSmith

    ViperSmith Enthusiast

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    [​IMG]
     
  18. Jack B

    Jack B Enthusiast

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    Has everyone forgot the new (2014) zr1 has to meet much tighter regulatory standards then were in place in 2007. In addition, the new base version shed no weight even after using new lighter material.

    Lastly why do you think after five years and hundreds of laps a single specific zr1 finally beat the track record.
     
  19. SnakeBitten

    SnakeBitten Enthusiast

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    That would be nice but Ill believe it when I see it. They need to fix other areas of the current cars performance before they go off tackling something of this magnitude. Brakes and tires come to mind. They will need to get that right first before adding 100+hp to the mix imho. 15" CCB [non exploding version lol] and mpsc or trofeos would help the 640hp version be a top world class. So 700+ is definitely going to need a brake and tire upgrade. Get it right on the SRT/GTS and build from there.
     
  20. PatentLaw

    PatentLaw Enthusiast

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    Disagree with most of the above. If you look at it from a true business point of view, the Viper is on the point of being irrelevant. Yes, I said it.

    If a new ZR1 comes out that is significantly better than the Viper, and they are at the same price point, then the Viper will go out of production. Period.

    As a business manager, what do you do? You make a contingency plan. You get a few cars, take a few engineers time up, and produce a few mules. You test them. You get ready, just in case. Like they don't have a few superchargers lying around? Get real.

    Any other decision is just plain stupid. You have hundreds of millions tied up. You are not going to take that extra step? At least a little? Upper level managers are paid the big bucks to think ahead. Not shuffle papers, like many on this forum.
     
  21. kdaviper

    kdaviper Enthusiast

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    Well, I brought the above skepticism to the OP of the remark, he told me to take a tour or Arrow Racing, who does a lot of development work on the viper engine.
     
  22. impalassed

    impalassed Viper Owner

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    With the vast number of MOPAR parts already available for the Gen 5 right out of the gate, I could see a supercharger as one of those offerings in the future.... Just some food for thought.
     
  23. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    Arrow Racing would be the logical organizations to develop/market and install an after market supercharger application for the Gen V. But that application will not be offered through SRT. It will/would be after market. This is no surprise since Dick Winkles publicly stated that one of the reasons the internals of the Gen V engine were strengthened was to accomodate those Viper owners who like to modify their cars with boost applications. This was a very nice nod to the VCA members who have for years posted about boost on this Forum. With the Gen V engine having stronger internals and the open code controller for the Gen V from Mopar coming soon, perhaps their will be a kit from Arrow available within a reasonable period of time. See also post 12 above.

    Also, we all know that there have seen several applications of Superchargers and Turbochargers to Gen IV engines so perhaps some of that research, experience and components can be used with the open code controller to come from Mopar to expedite the development of a Gen V kit. Whther MOPAR chooses to then adopt and market that kit, remains to be seen. So far, MOPAR has the 650HP Gen III engine upgrade kit so I would guess it is a possible probability. But it would not come with a warranty. It will be interesting to see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  24. Alabaster Mamba

    Alabaster Mamba Enthusiast

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    Well the one thing that goes out the window with the supercharger coming from anyone but SRT is the showroom stock part of the equation. It, a supercharger option, could be an RPO offered from SRT and maybe called a High Peformance Option (HiPo). Anything else and you can no longer claim the apples to apples comparison. While they (SRT) are at it they could offer a Track Brake package for those that want to pay for it. It would thus be able to be considered stock from SRT and you wouldn't have to hear "Yeah, but it's not stock" crap.
    If it has the built motor, and ready for boost, wouldn't the MPG also go up as well?
     
  25. ACRucrazy

    ACRucrazy Enthusiast

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    I could see it as a MOPAR Performance Parts/Aftermarket/Partnership option. With all the talk Ralph has made around the NA Viper being consistent and not heat soak like the ZR1 I would be surprised to see an OEM SC.As far as the several SC/TC Gen IV, I would have to say those are more of a one off. I have yet to see anyone offer a bolt on kit for one like the Gen III has avail.
     
  26. TowDawg

    TowDawg Enthusiast

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    The "bolt-on" part or a turbo or supercharger application for the Gen IV is easy, and there would be just as many boosted Gen IV's running around as there are Gen III's. The problem is the computer software, not the hardware.
     
  27. Bobpantax

    Bobpantax Enthusiast

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    The problem with the Gen IV was the lack of an open Code controller available to use with the application. If the open Code controller for the Gen V engine is adaptable to the Gen IV engine, perhaps that problem will be solved. We will have to wait and see.

    I would guess that if MOPAR is doing any serious boost product after market development now it would be for the SRT 8 engines. There are quite a few reliable boost variants available for the 6.1 engine and, if the controller problem is solved for the 6.4 engine, a low boost application should be safe so we should see that become available pretty quickly. The Diablo Sport Trinity T1000 has been updated to include support for the 6.4 liter engine but I do not know whether that includes programming for boosted applications.

     
  28. Next Phase

    Next Phase Enthusiast

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    I would be shocked and amazed if SRT put a blower on the new Viper. I don't see it happening... (I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong...but highly unlikely. I hope to eat my words.)
     
  29. JAY

    JAY Enthusiast

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    A SuperCharger Kit Like Kenny Belle, Edelbrock , or Roush through Mopar or similar venue should be viable .
    The Blue Oval Guys seem to do it well ! :2tu:
    Build it and they Will Come ! :D
     
  30. Alabaster Mamba

    Alabaster Mamba Enthusiast

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    While I think the idea for aftermarket is a good one, unless it comes as an option from the factory, then it is no longer a stock application and therefore cannot even be compared to a car like the ZR-1. It has to come from the factory that way to be considered stock. Hence why the record for the "Ring" was undisputable because the ACR came right off of Tomball's showroom floor.
     

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