Gen V Traction Control VS ESC

lmcgrew79

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I just read a massive part of 49 CFR Parts 571 & 585 number 126, (not all of it because is its 327 pages long) which is the government mandated Electronic stablity control, you will be able to turn this off if you would like, but it will turn back on after every ignition restart. Section 10a will explain this pretty in depth.

Coming from 2 different gen CTS-Vs ive got to say that traction control *****, but the esc isnt that bad. Just to make point of the actual difference between these two for those who may not know.
1. Traction control, is used during acceleration, and either cuts throttle when wheel spin is detected, or applyies braking. This is the first thing i used to turn off every time i got in the car. The cars basically fall right on their face if wheels spin is detected.
2. ESC is used to correct massive oversteer or understeer, and uses lateral yaw sensors, steering angle, etc. to sense where you are trying to go versus where the car is going. I good example would be going down the interstate hitting a patch of ice or water, driver over corrects quickly hits dry pavement and produces a snap oversteer situation. With esc activated this will not happen. The ESC will apply abs braking to indivual wheels to keep the car straight faster than normal everyday drivers can.

Some manufactures have a few modes. The competion esc mode on the cadillacs would let the tail hang out a lil bit more than standard mode which is great if you are playing on the main roads. Holding the button down shut everything down, and you could spin donuts if you liked.
I know the new c6 z06 are a little intrustive with the tps, traction control, and esc all intertwined, but the can still be disabled, other than the tps.
The nissan GTR makes great use out of their system.

The only thing the government is mandating is that all cars have ESC, not traction control also, and from reading the law it will be allowed to be turned off. The consumers union would like to see this stuff on all the time.
I personally dont think the ESC is a bad thing as ive been saved by it before just driving down the interstate and hitting ice on a bridge, sometimes cruising down the road you are not ready for something like that, not to mention the massive number of viper totals.
On a race track im sure your attention demand is a lil greater, on the road not as much.

Just thought i would share my thoughts, and clarify some things with the "nannies" Thanks
 
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Chuck 98 RT/10

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Put it on SUVs, minivans, pickups and sedans. Leave it off sports cars.

The government is overstepping their bounds. They even tell us what kind of light bulb we can use and when we are allowed to water our lawn. Isn't anybody pissed?
 
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lmcgrew79

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Im not pissed, nor do i think they have overstepping there bounds, i think they are looking out for the masses of the people, airbags, seatbelts, headlights, windshield wipers, unleaded fuel, are all examples of looking out for the people. Not taking away from your individual freedoms, just making it safer for the general public. Just a change with the times. It would be different if you couldnt disable it i guess.

If you are watering your lawn, with your own self supplied water source, i dont think they would care that you water your lawn, but draining water from a public service when you may run out of drinking water they cant produce fast enough is a different story. With out debating to much same kinda example with the light bulbs and electric/resources.

Again all opinion here. I know how much that counts.
 

Grisoman

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You might come to a more supportive stance after the 'other' driver with their TSC/ESC nannies off loses control and merges his vehicle with yours.
 
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lmcgrew79

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Im pretty supportive of it. Im was just stating the details of the mandate. Some people have really complained about the nannies, myself could careless because i wont have one, in the first 2 or 3 years if ever. But i do think on the main roads the esc it is a great thing, i dont wanna get hit by an idiot. Racetrack is where it would be better turned off.
 

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One thing I dont understand about you guy's is everybody is bitchin about the "nanny's" When in fact it just makes the car safer for the other people on the road. Some people think just because the can afford a fast car that they can drive, When infact they can't. So the goverment and the Insurance companys are the one's that are mandating the E S C . Insted of bithin about it just turn it off. Me myself look forward to having the extra help. God knows that nobody is perfect nor can you predict what the car is going to do every time, Sure you can practice your ass off driving and tracking your car every day you can but that instant split second to have a "second " can sure is nice when we F up, And yes we all do. My 2 cents
 

Razman

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I miss my '89 GMC Suburban 3/4 ton. The only safety feature is it's tank-like construction. You can start it up and pull the key out, pop it in drive without hitting the brake, and the 454 would make it get out of it's own way. And, it had the old solenoid locks that went "clunk" when locking/unlocking the doors. ABS? Your foot. Airbags? What's that? Oh, your passengers - if they are the talkative type. I nicknamed it "Thirsty" and sold it because we can't drill our own resources and bring gas back down to under a buck.

Safety features are great and should be (IMHO) part of free market competition, not by government mandate. What, is Uncle Sam going to start mandating that firearms manufacturers design and manufacture GPS/Internet-enabled devices on all firearms to prevent them going off when aimed at a perp (unless a. the perp image matches up to a criminal database that is searched in real time as you are aiming, or b. you acknowledge a disclaimer indemnifying the gun manufacturer, etc. of any and all liability for the impending shooting, or c. you answer the following: "Do you really want to pull the trigger? Are you absolutely sure? Are you absolutely, positively sure?")

I was turned off the first time I heard a car tell me "the door is ajar..."
 

viper067

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So when you are wondering why a basic new car costs $20k when not that long ago you could buy a new car for less than $10k, look no further than got mandates.

Stability control and such are nice, but they should not be mandated by the govt, it should be up to the manufacturer if they want to provide it as a standard, option, or at all.

You could also point out that most accidents are driver error such as changing lanes into another car or turning in front of another car, etc. These nannies while making you feel good won't really change accident stats and only add cost to the vehicle.
 

goldcup

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You could also point out that most accidents are driver error such as changing lanes into another car or turning in front of another car, etc. These nannies while making you feel good won't really change accident stats and only add cost to the vehicle.
Don't worry that's next,that way, we the people can be protected from ourselves at all times.
I will buy the new Viper if I like its looks, but I will miss the rawness. It's what I like about my ACR,it's like a roller
coaster ride with attitude!
I guess Corvette guys will now be able to drive it, although I'm not sure that's a good thing:dunno:
 
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lmcgrew79

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I just did some research on the nannies that everyone is crying about about to see if it could be turned off. Thats it. Then it goes into everyone hating the gov. For viper owners you'll are awful sensitive. lol
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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I just did some research on the nannies that everyone is crying about about to see if it could be turned off. Thats it. Then it goes into everyone hating the gov. For viper owners you'll are awful sensitive. lol

Can the bill for them be turned off too? Or how about when they malfunction, can we turn that off? Every month there's a thread about those stupid tire pressure sensors.

You've got dozens of nanny cars to choose from. We had one, now we have none. And you're fine with that.
 

goldcup

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I just did some research on the nannies that everyone is crying about about to see if it could be turned off. Thats it. Then it goes into everyone hating the gov. For viper owners you'll are awful sensitive. lol
Hate is a strong word "lack of faith" "strong dislike", aversion to an irresponsible entity telling us what to do might be a better choice of words. These nannies will not ruin the car for me but will definitely change it. On second thought you might be right many of us do not like "the government" See my signature line
 
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lmcgrew79

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Im fine with what i have now :) Just for arguing sake, the bill is about $480 bucks, a whopping half a percent total cost. To fix it who knows. Im also fine with it because i dont have a choice. Im sure if manufactures didnt like it they would have lobbied very hard against it. For now ill enjoy my 08 with that darn abs nanny.
 

goldcup

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I have an 08 also Abs doesn't restrict your ability to drive the car but it still is a nanny! I agree about the money heck the government take it and spend it on some ridiculous program!:)
I got to go to bed cause if I remember right I have to work till April to pay my taxes!:smirk:
 
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lmcgrew79

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Hate is a strong word "lack of faith" "strong dislike", aversion to an irresponsible entity telling us what to do might be a better choice of words. These nannies will not ruin the car for me but will definitely change it. On second thought you might be right many of us do not like "the government" See my signature line

Sensitive is also a strong word, both words i used to get my point across. Intense dislike, strong dislike who cares apparently you got my point. Oh by the way your quote is from someone that was heavily involved in "the government". Add this Benjamin Franklin quote underneat that one!

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."
 
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lmcgrew79

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LMAO..GOLD CUP IM POSTING THESE PHOTOS TO MAKE YOU HAPPY AND YES THEY ARE MINE!

You must be registered for see images attach
 
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goldcup

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Exceptional taste in cars and guns I have a new friend!!! And quick witted too:headbang:
Obviously I have Colt issues!
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Im fine with what i have now :) Just for arguing sake, the bill is about $480 bucks, a whopping half a percent total cost. To fix it who knows. Im also fine with it because i dont have a choice. Im sure if manufactures didnt like it they would have lobbied very hard against it. For now ill enjoy my 08 with that darn abs nanny.

The initial bill is $480. The maintenance costs will also increase as it has with TPMS, mulitple airbags, ABS. The manufacturers don't lobby against it because they charge $480 for something that the supplier charged them $100 for.

YOU NEED THIS FOR YOUR OWN GOOD!!! Just don't follow the money.
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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LMAO..GOLD CUP IM POSTING THESE PHOTOS TO MAKE YOU HAPPY AND YES THEY ARE MINE!

Nice guns. I wonder how you'd feel if the government forced nannies on those. After all, there are almost as many deaths by guns as there are by traffic accidents.

For the record I don't support gun nannies either. But from your previous comments I'm wondering if you would.
 
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lmcgrew79

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Thanks Chuck, but for one we have this thing called the 2nd amendment, which protects our rights to bear arms. Which in theory would be guns, missiles, grenades, tanks, c-4, but there is also limitations on what we can own."nannies" Every new gun purchased has this big orange lock in the case."nannie" that can be removed, Yep also we have to pay for it, but probably a small percentage. Alot of guns have safety devices, the colt 1911 has 3, thumb safety, beavertail safety, and half cocked safety. These can all be turned off. Even the glock has with no "safety switch" has a trigger safety.

Apparently neither one of us is gonna change our minds, but if the gov. mandated that the esc had to be on at all times, i WOULD have a problem with it, but they are giving us an option to turn it off which protects your freedom of choice i guess. Debating with me altough is fun ;) isnt gonna change anything, i suggest you move to washington and become a lobbist against ESC.
Most gun accidents are caused by user error as are car accidents.:D
 

goldcup

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Cars kill significantly more people than guns in fact its not even close. Heck pools are responsible for more deaths than firearms!
 

TrackAire

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Since most people talk a big game but shut up when real dollars are put into the mix, how about this scenario. Obviously we have to have insurance, not to protect us from ourselves as much as we have to protect ourselves from all the other morons on the road. If the government gave us a choice to have a non nannied Viper or a nannied Viper, which would you choose if these were your insurance premiums. Lets say the Vipers cost $115k vs $130k for a non nannied Viper vs a nannied up model. No nannies means no airbags, abs, traction control or stability control....hell, if your a true freedom freak you can delete seatbelts if you want.

New Gen V with nannies..................$2,500.00 per year insurance premium

New Gen V with no nannies.............$20,000.00 per year insurance premium

At some level it really doesn't matter what the government shoves down your throat, the market will eventually decide what is going to sell in todays environment. I don't see anybody on this forum buying a non nannied Viper if their insurance premiums are $20k per year.....I know I wouldn't.

Cheers,
George
 

viper067

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And since those numbers are so realistic, and im reading it on the internet, it must be true that those numbers are accurate.
 

VENOMAHOLIC

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I personally dont think the ESC is a bad thing as ive been saved by it before just driving down the interstate and hitting ice on a bridge, sometimes cruising down the road you are not ready for something like that, not to mention the massive number of viper totals.

No disrespect but I have to take issue with your endorsement of nannies saving you. I would bet that you have plenty of driving experience and would have been just fine without ESC on that bridge. Nannies are the most overhyped feature on cars today. I am going out on a limb here but I suspect there are thousands of times nannies failed to act properly but those events are swept under the rug. Politicians that are not professional drivers will always lobby for nannies that promise to save lives regardless of how overcomplex they are. The government can't even balance the budget and they are mandating theoretical safety tech nannies.:rolleyes:
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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Cars kill significantly more people than guns in fact its not even close. Heck pools are responsible for more deaths than firearms!

Not even close? Over the past 20 years gun deaths have ranged between 30,000 and 40,000 per year. Traffic fatalities between 40,000 and 45,000. Considering many more people own cars and use them every day as opposed to how many people own guns and use them every day "not even close" isn't even close to being truthful. Don't believe me? Check it out for yourself. http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=127 That's from the NRA website BTW. Where's your source? - rhetorical question. I don't want to put you on the spot having to dream up some bs.

Oh and drowning? Around 4,000, and I'm sure not all of those were in a pool.

For the record, I support the 2nd amendment as much as anybody and probably more than 99%. In fact, I don't even believe guns should have to be registered.
 

klamathpro

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I don't care as long as the ESC is fully defeatable, which I'm sure it will be.

What I don't like is mandating EPA standards. But an easy work around would be to simply make the Viper 600HP with 22MPG highway. Then, with a turn of a switch in the glovebox, you can put it in offroad mode - 800Hp with 12MPGs. It meets the EPA rules but gives the user the option to defeat it.
 
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