How easy is it to turn back the Odometer?
- Thread starter Inferno
- Start date
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
i believe it would be very hard. the car, being obdII would track mileage from the pcm as well as the odo. unless he was using a cluster and pcm that he had swapped out for spare, the ecu should reflect odometer mileage.
i believe it would be very hard. the car, being obdII would track mileage from the pcm as well as the odo. unless he was using a cluster and pcm that he had swapped out for spare, the ecu should reflect odometer mileage.
Sellshomesdrivesviper
Enthusiast
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
I read somewhere on this forum that it was easier to turn back the miles on the odometer than it was to turn back time.
I read somewhere on this forum that it was easier to turn back the miles on the odometer than it was to turn back time.
David
Viper Owner
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
The PCM can't easily be fooled... If sustained engine RPM's go above a certain limit and vehicle speed sensor isn't registering -- the PCM throws a code. So, just disconnecting the vehicle speed sensor at the transmission won't work. Of course, one could reprogram the PCM -- but that would take a non-trivial investment in proprietary software to match the miles on an altered odometer... The best indicator of an unaltered odometer are service records which indicate the mileage.
The PCM can't easily be fooled... If sustained engine RPM's go above a certain limit and vehicle speed sensor isn't registering -- the PCM throws a code. So, just disconnecting the vehicle speed sensor at the transmission won't work. Of course, one could reprogram the PCM -- but that would take a non-trivial investment in proprietary software to match the miles on an altered odometer... The best indicator of an unaltered odometer are service records which indicate the mileage.
zen garage
Enthusiast
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Any cars odomoter can be rolled back. Computer or not. Hell even digital dashs can be reprogrammed for a couple hundred bucks.
Any cars odomoter can be rolled back. Computer or not. Hell even digital dashs can be reprogrammed for a couple hundred bucks.
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Odo & Computer swap could do it, but unless it's like Joe's car its unlikely anyone could profit after the cost of labor and parts.
Odo & Computer swap could do it, but unless it's like Joe's car its unlikely anyone could profit after the cost of labor and parts.
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Do you know when this came into effect? I can tell you that the PCM does not throw a code on a gen I car for a speedo wire disconnected from the dash instrument cluster.
David
Viper Owner
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Randy,
I don't know when this came into effect... To be more specific, I was referring to disconnecting the vehicle speed sensor at the transmission... This way, the PCM doesn't know the car is moving. Taking out the speedo connection to the dash gauge is probably still possible. That would stop the odometer -- but I don't know if a standard tune-up OBDII scan tool can pick up the mileage from the PCM. The service manual for my '01 GTS basically states that sustained engine RPM will set a code if the PCM doesn't get a signal from the vehicle speed sensor. The manual didn't state what RPM, and for how long...
Randy,
I don't know when this came into effect... To be more specific, I was referring to disconnecting the vehicle speed sensor at the transmission... This way, the PCM doesn't know the car is moving. Taking out the speedo connection to the dash gauge is probably still possible. That would stop the odometer -- but I don't know if a standard tune-up OBDII scan tool can pick up the mileage from the PCM. The service manual for my '01 GTS basically states that sustained engine RPM will set a code if the PCM doesn't get a signal from the vehicle speed sensor. The manual didn't state what RPM, and for how long...
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Think another issue.
The computer keeps its own odometer reading. It should agree with the dashboard odometer, or it surely would raise questions.
Think another issue.
The computer keeps its own odometer reading. It should agree with the dashboard odometer, or it surely would raise questions.
Dimitrios
Enthusiast
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
i swaped my computer for a gen I ROE performance one and it read my car had over 100K miles on it. actually something like 114k
i swaped my computer for a gen I ROE performance one and it read my car had over 100K miles on it. actually something like 114k
Makara
Viper Owner
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Put the car up on jackstands and run it in reverse. Then when you find out it doesn't work, kick the car until it comes off the jackstands and fly's out of the garage over a cliff. Don't be a man, let Ferris take the fall.
Put the car up on jackstands and run it in reverse. Then when you find out it doesn't work, kick the car until it comes off the jackstands and fly's out of the garage over a cliff. Don't be a man, let Ferris take the fall.
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
In the end it would only matter if someone actually checked the computer.
I don't know of that many people that check (or know to check) the computer.
Are you sure? I beleive the computer keeps a run-time total, but not a mileage total. I was told this for a gen I car, but I also know the PCM has evolved a bit.
In the end it would only matter if someone actually checked the computer.
I don't know of that many people that check (or know to check) the computer.grayman
Enthusiast
Correct me if Im wrong, but if the speed sensor was not connected, how in the world would the computer know mileage anyways? And even if it kicked a code, can't all codes be erased by simply disconnecting the battery?
Re: How easy is it to turn back the speedometer?
Of course, anyone disconnecting it at the dash would have to do without the speedo as well as the odometer while its disconnected. So, unless they like tickets for speeding, they'd probably need an alternative way to read speed.
Exactly. So, disconnecting it at the tranny would likely be detected, but disconnecting (then reconnecting) it at the dash could result in lower odometer readings, and the dash connector is easier to get to, anyway. My point was that few (if any) people check the computer outside of factory service, or know that it may be stored there.
Of course, anyone disconnecting it at the dash would have to do without the speedo as well as the odometer while its disconnected. So, unless they like tickets for speeding, they'd probably need an alternative way to read speed.
Motor City Mad Man
Enthusiast
Give that man $100. Yes, I was just going to say the same thing. Even though the PCM stores mileage info, a new PCM is only what $1,000 or so. So it is important to check the cars condition out and say to yourself does it really have this low mileage in reality.
You can also buy a used pcm off ebay, and a used speedo off ebay hook them up and there u go. Then you are putting miles on another pcm and speedo, therefore carefully preserving the value of your fine automobile. Or just get a pcm and unhook your speedo. Get yourself a Marine Gps speedo as they look more bad ass anyway.
Pretty sure the PCM miles can be reset with a diagnostic tool. Required to adjust the PCM if/when it is replaced. As they say anything can be bypassed if the person is dishonest enough.
BTW I replaced the PCM on my 1995 RT/10 so I could have a performance oriented cal. I still have the bone stock PCM and cal available. Only used it the first year (<3000 miles).
BTW I replaced the PCM on my 1995 RT/10 so I could have a performance oriented cal. I still have the bone stock PCM and cal available. Only used it the first year (<3000 miles).
Jay Herbert
Enthusiast
To bad you did not pull the speedo at the same time, then you'd have something
One thing many have forgot about here, if the car was ever serviced, sold, or inspected, the milage shows up in a database somewhere and it will likely show up on a Car-Fax, State DMV, or dealer service report.
Jerry Dobson
Enthusiast
Surprising how much open talk there is about swapping PCMs and Speedos. It is a Federal offense if you sell your car without disclosing any mileage tampering. You can do anything you want to the vehicle while you own it. Heck turn the mileage back to zero if you like, but you must tell the buyer.
I am not going to release all the info. The PCM does track your mileage. The PCM checks for VSS signal (Vechicle Speed Sensor). This is a PPM (Pulses Per Mile). If the signal is lost, you will get a check engine light.
If you disconnect the signal at speedometer (no check engine light will be triggered), you will still be logging miles via the PCM. If you swap out your PCM, the VIN number of the Vehicle will not match your PCM entry. If you buy a PCM on Ebay, it will show the VIN of the vehicle it was pulled from.
These are all things to check prior to buying a used Viper.
I recently checked a Viper that appeared to have 4x more miles than indicated…. I was correct, the VIN on the PCM did not match. Bingo!
Let your gut instinct alert you. If the car looks like it has a lot more miles on it…it might. Look at the paint, the condition of the seats, the date code on the tires, etc. Run a car fax and have a local Dodge dealer run a report. Vipers are a sizeable investment. Don’t get emotionally involved with a purchase. Many Vipers that I inspect become a “Do not buy” recommendation.
I am not going to release all the info. The PCM does track your mileage. The PCM checks for VSS signal (Vechicle Speed Sensor). This is a PPM (Pulses Per Mile). If the signal is lost, you will get a check engine light.
If you disconnect the signal at speedometer (no check engine light will be triggered), you will still be logging miles via the PCM. If you swap out your PCM, the VIN number of the Vehicle will not match your PCM entry. If you buy a PCM on Ebay, it will show the VIN of the vehicle it was pulled from.
These are all things to check prior to buying a used Viper.
I recently checked a Viper that appeared to have 4x more miles than indicated…. I was correct, the VIN on the PCM did not match. Bingo!
Let your gut instinct alert you. If the car looks like it has a lot more miles on it…it might. Look at the paint, the condition of the seats, the date code on the tires, etc. Run a car fax and have a local Dodge dealer run a report. Vipers are a sizeable investment. Don’t get emotionally involved with a purchase. Many Vipers that I inspect become a “Do not buy” recommendation.
to answer the original question, the speedo can be taken apart and altered to whatever you like if you have the skills. I changed my speedo from kmph to mph and had a friend who could set it for the metre/mile difference he used to work for a company that builds guages
AviP
Enthusiast
Your best bet to getting accurate info about your car is contacting the state DMV it was registered in and getting their inspection records. Carfax will give you some info. Of course, nothing like a visual inspection to figure out whether the car has 50K or 5K miles.
