How expensive is Viper Maintenance?

David Jenkins

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That depends on what you think expensive is. A COMPLETE fluid service is usually around $750-800. We have it on sale to SoCal Viper club members for $550. No timing belt, clutch should be between $700-20,000 depending on the shop! Scheduled maintenance is not real expensive, but it has to be done frequently. Look for t-stat housing crossover coolant leaks, head gasket leaks, and burned plug wires on the old cars.dj
 

GR8_ASP

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Viper Maintenance: OIl change similar to other V8 type US cars except quantity and type of oil. When I used to get the Viper serviced at the dealership I brought my own oil. Stock up on Mobil1 during sales and it is no big deal. Other fluids should be similar to other oems like the Vette. Note synthetic with friction modifier for the differential. I believe service intervals are similar to the Vette as well.

My personal experience is the Viper is easy to work on. I now do just about all my own work due to bad experiences with my local dealerships. A scratch per visit is just not acceptable.

Unique Viper parts do run more than comparable parts for other US cars. But significantly less than the exotics. Low volume indicates high prices.

Ron
 

BigsViper

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Regarding Oil Changes, I bought a 6-pack of Mobil 1 today at Wally-World for about $28.00 including tax. Had 3 qts. left over from last time at about $4.50 each. Took it to my friendly 5 Star dealer and drove it on and off the rack myself (no one at the dealership except the shop foreman/Viper tech, while I was riding shotgun, has driven it). Spec Mopar filter and labor was $13.50, so $41.50 (oil) and $13.50 = $55.00. 30 minutes and peace of mind. I could do it myself but if something breaks I don't want them to have an excuse (2000 GTS w/ 4200 miles).

Regarding the much-advertised deal on 5 qt bottles of Mobil 1 at Wally's, all they had at the two in this area was 5w/50. Hope this helps!
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FRANK

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Viper maintenance depends on how mechanically inclined you are. If you cannot bang a 10 penny nail into a 2X4, then you're gonna get hit hard at the dealer. Look at Jenkins post about his $550 fluid change. For $550 I hope he tops off your windshield washer fluid too!!!
For God's sake...over the past weekend my Viper was running like crap and I felt a miss. Sure enough I pull a code 43 which is engine missfire. Within a half hour I found I had a bad #6 wire - no spark. Looked perfect, but an ohm meter proved otherwise. Had a spare set of Viper wires around and changed it out. Back on the road within the hour. Hey Dave, how much did I save????
 
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David Jenkins

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Frank, it's always good to have your support. Makes me want to reply to more posts. You've got to realize that some guys aren't rocket scientists as yourself, and they, unfortunately, don't know how to work on cars. I would do the work for free, but I do work for a company that likes to make money. I would guess that you don't work for free.
Do you think $550 is too much? How much do the dealers charge on the bad side of town? Let me explain what we do. Change oil and filter, including draining of cooler. Change trans and diff. fluids. Drain and refill coolant,including BOTH block drains.
Flush p/s fluid, including removing lines and flushing rack and pinion. Completely flush brake and clutch fluid. We also do a complete chassis lube including doors, hood and pedal pivots. We also include the washer fluid. It's all of 4 hrs. to do this, and the fluids are over $200.
It sounds to me that you saved enough money to finally get that 8 ball shifter ball you've been dreaming of. Check for loose change under the seats......that $5.52 can get you that next Gulfpride oil change!
 

kverges

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I think Viper maintenance is very inexpensive, relatively speaking. I am a DIY guy, in part because I can do it outside work hours and it frankly takes less time to do it myslef at 8:00 one evening after work than to take time to schlep to a dealer and figure out how to get to work & back.

Every 3K miles: Oil & Filter (Mobil 1 for both): $50
Every 2-3 years: Coolant & distilled water: $30
Every 7.5-15K: Gear & Tranny oil: $65 (icluding limited slip additive)
As needed brake pads (for me about 10K street or two track weekends): $300 OEM or much less with EBC. Other pads can run about $150 per axle.
Tires last me about 12-15K on the street, and if you get them on sale, a set is under $1000

Most other stuff should be under warranty, and a 7 year warranty can be had for well under $2K

Regardless of fights between DIY and Do-it-for-me folks, about all you need to deal with are fluids and brake pads, neither of which are expensive.

All the clutch talk amazes me. What in the world are you guys doing to your cars that you need clutches before 30-40K miles? Drag racing at every stoplight! I have never had to put a clutch in 4 Vipers I have owned, and have the OE clutch in my '93 still, with 20K miles, many on track & strip.

Overally, a Viper and C5 should be comparable to maintain. Start breaking stuff, especially body parts, and Vipers get expensive fast.

Keith
 

K Adelberg

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There is nothing like a good Viper Tech.! The prices they charge are reasonable and well worth it. You may bring the car in for an oil change, but they will overlook the entire car and are well informed of problems or TSB's. They are here for us and can be trusted. I have worked with Jenkins and Cragin both. I would not want to own a Viper without them. The charges Jenkins hit me with were very reasonable and workmanship was awesome.
 

brett

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I do most of my work myself as well, and as much as it pains me to say (now he'll want to bunk with me in the RV) Jenkins is a good guy and knows what he's talking about. He's more than willing to lend a hand at the track and get "dirty" so you don't have to...to me that is always worth the price of admission. I've had him work on my car on several occasions (he's an hour away from me) and he has always gone above beyond the call of duty. Matter of fact Dave hand washes all the Vipers he works on himself, he doesn't want anybody to touch the car or be responsible for its care other than himself. That's a rare quality these days in any service industry. You could always take your car to Frank, he seems to have plenty of spare time and I'm sure he'll only charge you for the parts as long as you keep him company while he's doing the work. You never know, he may have enough spare pieces laying around from experiments "gone bad" where you may not have to pay for anything.....

To answer your question: It's my personal opinion that the Viper is probably the least expensive car to maintain out of all the "exotics".
 

FRANK

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Brett,

Well for your information I'd outwrench you blindfolded. I am not a mechanic by profession but have passed engine repair and engine performance ASE tests. What cracks me up are these people that take their cars to people to get worked on, yet they have been working on their cars since they were 15...what ever happened to a sense of pride?

I don't want to hear it..."it isn't worth it for me to do it..." yada yada yada Can you say "benchbuilders?" You know what...Walmart is having a sale on 15 piece socket sets this week. Benchbuilders unite from this BBS and hurry while supplies last! You then can use them and get dirty for the first time and lose your virginity to your Viper!
 

FRANK

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You see Johnny Benchbuilder that the code 43 was a missfire which is one of two things right off the bat. Bad wires or plugs. The plugs were fairly new. That leaves the wires. I didn't need to read your sermons on plug wires going bad to determine what was wrong with my Viper. You're another one who thinks you are the almighty Viper mechanic when in fact you're no different then someone who sits behind a parts counter at your local Pep Boys. Toodles!!!

P.S. As far as being of help...there have been COUNTLESS private emails to me with tech questions...at least some people have an idea of who actually wrenches...

Hey Jon you even own an ohm meter? Know how to use one?
 

Chuck 98 RT/10

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank 00GTS:
You two argue like some of my relatives. They're all dead now. Keep it up --- I miss 'em.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL
This is great stuff! Better than Seinfeld. I'm stuck here at work tonight babysitting a computer system. Thanks for the entertainment!
LOL
 

brett

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Frank, why are you so hostile? I'm sure you could "out wrench" even yourself blinfolded! Matter of fact, I'll bet your eyes are probably so "droopy" from staying up all night coming up with these witty comebacks....it wouldn't take more than a strip of plastiguage* to blindfold you.


*Plastiguage manufactures plastic precision clearance guages. Not to be used as a blindfold, dental floss, twine or any other silly thing Frank can come up with in the "wee" hours of the night. Use only as directed.


WRENCH THAT!

WAR SILLY STRING!
 
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David Jenkins

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Francis Benchracer, "code 43 is a miss fire which is one of two things right off the bat. Bad wires or plugs" hhhmmmm aren't there more than two things that will cause a missfire? What did you use to pull the code? MIL light? Some aftermarket scan tools may have this ability, but I wouldn't know because I only use the factory DRB. There are 39 dtc's that can be retrieved from a '94. None of which are a missfire monitor. There are several things that are NOT monitored including fuel injectors and compression. The pcm cannot detect if an injector is clogged or sticking. The pcm cannot detect low or uneven compression.

I'm not slamming you Franko, just don't bag on me, EVER, for doing what I do with pride for my work.peace out,dj.
 

FRANK

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First off...any missfire is usually a plug fouling or a bad wire...easiest to check. If the plugs are good and you have strong spark, isolate the cylinder and then you can determine what injector is bad. As far as compression...it is highly unlikely any low mileage motor will have it unless your head gasket is blown out...

Thank God I am self sufficient and do all motor work "in house..."
 

brett

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FRANK:


Thank God I am self sufficient and do all motor work "in house..."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

....and thank God that "house" is in New Jersey!
 

FRANK

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Brett,

Hopefully you live on the Pacific side of the San Andreas Fault and if we are lucky enough...the CA coast will sink into the depths of the ocean with you entombed in your Viper...
 

Kid97GTS

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Uh oh, now you did it FRANK - that sort of talk will get this thread locked quicker than the time it takes you strip the threads on an aluminum head while using your Snap-On torque wrench.
 

GR8_ASP

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Frank,

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Viper in 1994 did not have misfire detection. If you know something more about Chrysler vehicle engines please email for an interview. I will connect you with the proper people. Regarding code 43 it indicates one of the ignition coil primary circuits did not achieve proper current within the maximum dwell time. Since, as you are an expert in this you know there are 5 coils driving 2 cylinders each, the only way you would have detected a bad spark plug wire via code 43 would be if 2 opposing cylinders had problems, simultaneously. Since the firing order of the Viper is 1-10-9-4-3-6-5-8-7-2 cylinder 1 must have also been bad. Hope you checked that wire too. As an aside I do not know how accurate a low voltage ohm meter is at checking a high tension lead. Or did you use a high voltage ohm meter?
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Future misfire detection systems will probably be one of two types: crankshaft angular acceleration based (using a multi-tooth DIS ring with 360 degree coverage), or electrical discharge related. I am unaware of a shared coil system that can perform the later. If so maybe it will be called code 43 - in the future
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Finally, even though I do most of my own work on the Viper I do not believe that is cause to criticize those who choose not to. I do it not to save money but because it is something I enjoy. Imagine that working on and driving cars as a hobby.

P.S. Shorten your stupid signature. Reading it once was enough east coast humor.

Ron
 

Tenney

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You may be a **** with the wrench, FRANK - (though I've seen guys with more schooling than you claim to have who have still figured out a way to somehow ****) - but when it comes to witty retorts your finesse game could use a bit of polish (polish as in the stuff that refines the unrefined - as opposed to the nationality that you're probably not too fond of). Kid's right, past experience indicates this beauty's on the brink of a free-style, anonymous VCA lock-down - and there could well be a banning in your future (for the record, I hope not).

Alex, I'm guessing the cost of proper upkeep on a Viper will be higher than that of your C5 if for no other reason than volume of each model produced. Limited production often means fewer spares and therefore higher prices for replacement parts. Though when compared vs. other exotics, Brett's right, a Viper is cheaper to maintain.

As far as picking on D. Jenkins is concerned, considering his substantial list of valued customers (who also believe they are getting a good value, BTW) and the source of the ridicule, I'm sure he'll manage to pull through. (smiling face icon).
 

brett

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Frank, I'm shocked...Wow! That kind of talk will get you the "ban" in no time. Maybe you and "IEAT" should form an East coast alliance!

If we could harness the electricity produced by the brainpower of that duo we could lightly toast something...or at least measure it on our Craftsman ohm meter.

Good night to you to Frankanwrench.
 

BigsViper

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David Jenkins, Tom Sessions, Rich Carlson, These guys are the real deal. Anyone that continually tries to prove his mechanical superiority through internet posts instead of bonified endorsements reminds me of the high school kid that continually brags about his ****** conquests, even though he has had none.I am however, grateful for Frank and his ***-stirring posts. He has provided many hours of chuckles. It would be a shame if the Wizard of Oz that pulls Tony's string insisted on locking or deleting this thread. THIS is entertainment!!

WAR THREAD-LOCKING/DELETING GREMLINS!!!
 

BigsViper

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Tony, Just keep those thread locking Gremlins caged!! I think you do a great job, although I don't know about those who tell you to move and/or lock or delete things. Kind of reminds me of that sixth sense post awhile back.
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PMUM

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Frank,
In fairness to Jenkins, I don't think you understood what he was talking about when he said "change your fluids..." Most Viper techs would take that as an oil change and maybe a radiator drain. Jenkins is extremely thorough when the client is looking for the job to get done right. I've been taking my Vipers there since the day after I bought my first one over 3 years ago and have never had a problem with his work or prices.

Dave used to work on the crew of an NHRA Top Fuel team and knows a thing or two about motors. He also prepares many of the SoCal cars that get roadraced hard and often attends the track events to support them. He knows first hand all of the little 'secrets' that you figure out the hard way when preparing a car. I've probably put close to 10K road race miles on my Vipers in the last 3-4 years and have never had a differential leak, power steering problems, car overheat due to air in the system, etc. This is because of thorough "fluid changes".

His prices have always been more than reasonable and for any work that he would charge $500, you can guarantee any other Viper Tech would charge at least as much. Sure, we could all save a lot of money by doing our own 'chores', but it all depends on what your time is worth and how much you enjoy doing those chores. Hell, I even have a lady that comes to my house to pick up my dog 'deposits' because my time is worth more than the $40mo. she charges me. These are obviously personal decisions with no set answer, but I think it's unfair to bang an honest mechanic.
 

brett

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PMUM does this mean I don't have to pick up the poo anymore for rides in your Viper, or "getting" to hang out with you and live the RV lifestyle?

Signed,

Groupie.


WAR POO !
 

Kid97GTS

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FRANK - First let me say that (1) I like to (and can) do most anything to any car I've driven since I was 15, and (2) I do not like to spend money on things that do not have a direct correlation to me getting some p**n t*ng. That said, I STILL take my car to Jenkins (despite what PMUM might say, service by Jenkins does not usually include #2 above). Jenkins (and from what I've seen and heard Cragin, too) is that rare species in the automotive world - an honest, skilled mechanic. If Dave tells you that you should have "x" done to the car, he says it because in his learned opinion, you NEED to have "x" done, not because he is looking to meet some quota.

As far as pricing goes (besides that fact that Dave has no control over what the dealership chooses to charge), the prices quoted by Dave for the services offered are quite reasonable in ViperLand. Sure, I can save $40 by taking my car to the dude down the street at Quickie Lube, or maybe even save $80 by doing it myself, but then you start to get into the question of what is your time worth. I think you've made it pretty clear what your billing rate is, but other people actually might think the 45 minute savings and lack of hassle or mess (yes, we do have oil collection centers in California - as opposed to the Hudson River) is worth the marginal cost of taking the car to a trusted tech like Dave. It's great that you save so much money doing your own work, but it pretty unfair to bang Jenkins for offering what amounts to a good deal for most Viper owners.
 

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