is a cam worth while?
- Thread starter STUGOTS
- Start date
Simms
Enthusiast
I would do a cam since you are going to be in that area anyway.
ACELLR8
Enthusiast
I agree and would do a cam as well, with your 1.7 rockers and the heads done you will benefit pretty good from a cam. Depending on the aggressivenes of the cam the power will vary. I would guess with a mild cam you could pick up 30 RWHP with your setup.
joe117
Enthusiast
I can't give you any numbers but in general you will find that a cam that gives you extra hp, will do it at the mid to higher rpm range.
That same cam will often cost you power at the low end.
That same cam will often cost you power at the low end.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
cam and heads can easily give you 100hp - assuming your shortblock is good.
As Joe said you'll likely lose some bottom end - especially if you keep the factory ECU.
However, if you get the right tune to go with the combo I doubt you'll notice any lack of power down low, except for increased lumpiness at idle and maybe it'll feel a bit flatter just off idle.... but when you nail it from the sweet spot it'll be night and day.
you can gain at all rpms by using a solid roller. The downside will be increased valvetrain noise and the need to adjust valve lash once a year (on a typical street engine) or more often if you race a lot.
Ported heads on stock cam is a bit like wearing a tie on a T-shirt. When you upgrade the cam - upgrade to better grade lifters - the stock lifters are weak. Most tuners can help you with proven combos, I know Heffner Performance has the good lifters available to go with their cams
A good street setup with heads, cam, roller rockers, 3.55 gears and headers with cat back should net you 520-550rwhp and retain excellent driveability
As Joe said you'll likely lose some bottom end - especially if you keep the factory ECU.
However, if you get the right tune to go with the combo I doubt you'll notice any lack of power down low, except for increased lumpiness at idle and maybe it'll feel a bit flatter just off idle.... but when you nail it from the sweet spot it'll be night and day.
you can gain at all rpms by using a solid roller. The downside will be increased valvetrain noise and the need to adjust valve lash once a year (on a typical street engine) or more often if you race a lot.
Ported heads on stock cam is a bit like wearing a tie on a T-shirt. When you upgrade the cam - upgrade to better grade lifters - the stock lifters are weak. Most tuners can help you with proven combos, I know Heffner Performance has the good lifters available to go with their cams
A good street setup with heads, cam, roller rockers, 3.55 gears and headers with cat back should net you 520-550rwhp and retain excellent driveability
joe117
Enthusiast
Barry's right, if you get everything just exactly right you wont lose a whole lot of low end.
Many guys buy too big a cam for what they want to do.
Here's the other problem,
You are going to still be limited to stock Viper V10 RPM.
That means you are doing the head and cam/train work without getting the benefit that the V8 guys get.
When they do this kind of work, they can take advantage of it way past V10 RPM limits.
So,
Uncle Joe says, spend your money on a blower. Leave the heads stock.
You will get more power at all RPM.
Many guys buy too big a cam for what they want to do.
Here's the other problem,
You are going to still be limited to stock Viper V10 RPM.
That means you are doing the head and cam/train work without getting the benefit that the V8 guys get.
When they do this kind of work, they can take advantage of it way past V10 RPM limits.
So,
Uncle Joe says, spend your money on a blower. Leave the heads stock.
You will get more power at all RPM.
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
If you do the heads right, with solid lifters and increased spring rates, wouldn't you be able to raise the rev limit? Or is there some other limitation on these V10's revving past factory?
Well Joe I am going with the blower but wanted to do heads/cam/blower and from the sounds of things I may do them all at once.
Some guys have raised there Rpm how they do it is beyond me tho.
Anyone who has done that (and it doesent cost an arm and a leg) can you chime in?
Thanks
Some guys have raised there Rpm how they do it is beyond me tho.
Anyone who has done that (and it doesent cost an arm and a leg) can you chime in?
Thanks
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
There is a general fear about letting the V10 rpm higher...
the truth is the factory engine management has not historically been supportive.
Built right, with some basic but good parts, if you precision blueprint and balance the engine, and run an AEM - there is no reason you can't wring that baby to 7000rpm for short bursts on an n/a motor... but I would add an ATI damper and a good oil like Redline
For more insurance at those rpms - you need oiling mods - a dry sump being the ultimate but not necessary if you know what to do.
There is no magic - anyone who tells you the Viper engine can't rpm is probably wrong about other things too.... they can rpm - you just have to do the right things to let it breathe and keep it happy up there - they are no different to any other OHV big engine. The AEM opens up a whole new world. A cheaper alternative may be to get a factory chip reburned for a high rpm tune... but the dyno time setting up to get it spot on won't be that cheap....
Get the heads flowing around 300cfm with great velocity, add a FAST action solid cam with at least 250 degrees at 0.050" (keep intake advertised duration @ 0.020 in the high 280's for street), and you will move mountains on a good build up. Keep valve springs under 160lb on the seat and under 420lb open, and use titanium retainers with lighter high flow valves.
If you can afford it, run Schubeck ceramic lifters (they'll last longer than the engine and allow aggressive opening ramps).... a little outlaw secret
Simms
Enthusiast
AEM would replace the VEC2.
Ulysses
Enthusiast
Weren't the engines that Caldwell built revving pretty high up there?
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
VEC2 might limit your rpms - most I have seen fart themselves into a standstill anywhere from 5500rpm to 5800rpm. Maybe I've just had the bad luck to see a whole bad batch.. but there are scores of them with this problem.
If yours allows you to rpm well past 6000rpm without a big dip in the dyno curve - no need to change it for AEM.
If yours allows you to rpm well past 6000rpm without a big dip in the dyno curve - no need to change it for AEM.
joe117
Enthusiast
All these folks are right.
I was just answering your question about a change in the cam by saying do the sc instead.
It's a fact that h&c AND an sc will work great. And the revs can probably be moved up as Barry says.
I didn't know you wanted to spend more than half the value of the car on engine mods.
Go for it!
I was just answering your question about a change in the cam by saying do the sc instead.
It's a fact that h&c AND an sc will work great. And the revs can probably be moved up as Barry says.
I didn't know you wanted to spend more than half the value of the car on engine mods.
Go for it!
V10 MOJO
Enthusiast
always do cam with heads. and if you are doing heads you are hopefully going with Greg Good. if not youre getting second best heads as his are the best bar none. 713-290-1103 call him
HOdbleFman
Enthusiast
Rich is right. Greg is a nice guy, won't blow smoke up your a$$, and is an all around good guy to deal with. I'll have some dyno numbers next week to back up Rich's claim about Greg's heads being Good (no pun intended).
joe117
Enthusiast
"not sure if I can afford Greg guys.
Then go with the sc first.
Then save up to do the heads and cam/train the right way.
It's a no brainer that the sc is a better mod to start with.
Think of showing your engine to your buds. "Yes, it look's the same but I just spent $10 on it"
Or, you open the hood and they say, "A supercharged Viper, AHHHHHHHGGGG!!!!!" as they run away in terror.
Then go with the sc first.
Then save up to do the heads and cam/train the right way.
It's a no brainer that the sc is a better mod to start with.
Think of showing your engine to your buds. "Yes, it look's the same but I just spent $10 on it"
Or, you open the hood and they say, "A supercharged Viper, AHHHHHHHGGGG!!!!!" as they run away in terror.
RedEnuf93
Enthusiast
"Built right, with some basic but good parts, if you precision blueprint and balance the engine, and run an AEM - there is no reason you can't wring that baby to 7000rpm for short bursts..."
I thought he wanted to do just the heads and a cam, not the whole motor with new guts?
I thought he wanted to do just the heads and a cam, not the whole motor with new guts?
