Kid '97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

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SoCal Rebell

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Vipermad (Tony) you are a good guy and have helped me on this board few times in the past and I appreciate it, so I reserve judgement on this until I hear your side.

BUT, has it gotten to the point where we have to watch every little word we say in fear of a "lifetime ban"????? We pay our dues to VCA and this board is one of the perks (correct me if I'm wrong). I've seen the banter on the post that lost Kid97GTS his privileges, and from what I saw it was not profane or offensive and far from what I would consider worthy of the penalty imposed, again I as many would like to hear your side, please do not take this personally and please don't ban me for my opinion.
 

David Jenkins

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Wow this is good stuff. So your tellin' me he got banned for his comments? Did he introduce foul language other than "bone head" or "idiot"? If he did...see ya'. From his previos posts he seemed like a fine citizen. Couldn't have been much worse then a VCA regional prez. using implied curse words on the board. It's really none of my biz, but I sure would love to hear both sides.
I almost got banned a few monthes ago for an insane attempted post that someone had written. They tried to post it under my name but Vipermad caught it. It was crazy! He was very understanding and cooperative during our conversations. He saved me a great deal of embarrasment.
This board is a great place to learn and discuss the issues, Viper or otherwise. It's sad sometimes when you read things that are just so stupid it's beyond comprehension. I try to give fair/free advice to anyone willing to listen. If I were to post something that was entirely wrong, or just plain stupid, I would hope that my Viper "friends" on this board would bring it to my attention. I often have to bite my tongue when I read some of the responses....we all have to sometimes.(see my dad wrecked my viper)ps....I gotcher bak kid!dj
 

Tenney

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

If this means the term "'lil Whoadie" will no longer be uttered, then it truly is a sad day for the VCA site. Bring back Kid '97 (and the original format, if it's not too much trouble).
 

brett

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I couldn't improve on this classic disclosure, so.....

Yeah, that goes for me too!!!

PLEASE NOTE: I APOLOGIZE TO ANYONE WITH THE POWER TO BAN ME FOR THE ABOVE POST. ANY COMMENTS I MADE THAT MAY BE CONSTRUED AS OFFENSIVE TO ANY SEGMENT OF THE VIPER COMMUNITY, ADVERTISERS, MODERATORS, DC EMPLOYEES, OR 12 YEAR OLD HACKERS WITH THE ABILITY TO FRY MY COMPUTER ARE HEREBY WITHDRAWN.
 

Chuck 97 GTS

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Let's petition the VCA board to reinstate the Kid! Put my name first on the list!
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Gerald

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

That's very unfortunate, but not knowing the circumstances, one can't really comment on that very same situation.

Lifetime ban? HAHA. If he knew anything about computers, he could get back online in less than 60 seconds...!

Just a thought,
If he gets banned for "saying" things,how come "other ppl" aren't banned for ripping ppl off 10's of 1,000's of dollars? etc, etc?? Just a thought? Maybe Kid should be a paid advertiser? hmmmm..


Gerald
 

PMUM

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Vipermad has turned Kid into a martyr! He should come back as Mahatma Kid or Kid Luther King.

Viva la Revolucion!
 

Jon 98GTS

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

A couple of observations that are collectively worth about $0.02:

1) I tried to read the posts to find out what was going on; I could only find a tersely worded post from Vipermad saying that he moved it to "Off Topic." But it wasn't there! (Granted, my abilities to navigate this new board's format are limited. Sheesh, I CAN solve impact ionization current in sub-micron semiconductors but I CANNOT figure out this new format...)

2) If "bonehead" or "idiot" or "lil Whoadie" are on the "Do Not Use" list, is "pinoche" far behind??? (I just need to know since it's about time I resume giving Adelberg a hard time.)

3) Using "pre-apologies" won't work. Trust me on this one -- I've got an ex-wife that proves their ineffectiveness...
 

K Adelberg

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

OK, not only should we be able to honor the first amendment, but quite honestly this board is very important. All inputs should be allowed. Brutally honest comments must be allowed! Take a case of a product review. If someone buys products from a tuner and is not happy, his/her opinion should be expressed publically. This will enable fair competition and hopefully eliminate bogus marketing ploys and more importantly bogus products. Also creating a more informed public. People should not be afraid of being honest.

WAR KID '97!!!!!
 

FRANK

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I mean even Jesus forgives murderers, rapists, robbers, etc.

Since Jon B. is regarded as the savior around here why don't we let him make the "ultimate decision...of Kid's fate..."
 

BWoodbury

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I just gotta agree. I read the thread that started all this. And I've probably read most, if not all, of The Kid's posts since the new board. I certainly never read anything from him that was out of line enough to have received the harshest of all penalties.

More to the point though, I think that those who regularly contribute useful, informative posts (like Kid97GTS) should be given more latitude than the newbee that just showed up to cause some trouble.

I have to say that in the last week or two the board has suddenly started to be much more tightly moderated than the past. Now I hear this story. Wassup Tony?

I would like to think that this board is here to serve all VCA members. And I would like to think that it is more of a democracy than a dictatorship. I would like to think that what we all think is important. I know we all make mistakes. I say let Kid97GTS back in.
 

Joseph Houss

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I already deleted the duplicate post, and Tony, I have to say that you ARE and CONTINUE TO BE, one of the most loyal VOLUNTEERS on this site!

Everyone, please note:

I've always felt that any personal communications should be left PERSONAL. Tony's correct, if you don't agree with something the moderators did (and by the way, we ALL have real jobs!! and do NOT spend every breathing moment scrutinizing every post), just e-mail us personally. We're all nice guys.....honest, and only want what's best for all; a nice, clean, Viper oriented board to use as a reference for problems, technical info, stats, etc.

If you'd like to talk smack (more than an occasional post or two for humor sake), please e-mail your "smack opponent" and you can play "smack tennis" privately. It tends to get monotonous after the first volley or two.

Now let's get back to REAL web gossip......

Does anyone want to hear about the next raffle car? You will not believe how unique this baby is going to be!!!!!!

Get your credit cards ready, because if you thought the last one was rare.....wait 'til you hear about this one!!!! and it's got performance items galore!!!!! hint, hint
 
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SoCal Rebell

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Tony, thanks for your side. As I have met with, and conversed with KID on this board I know him to be a good person with good intentions. Tony have been invaluable to me on this board, with your help in learning this board and posting my avatar, I do not envy your position having to please everybody (which is impossible) but I think you have done a fine job. I think this whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion and nobody benifits, a lifetime ban is a serious thing I would be devastated if it happened to me, lets play nice. Let KID back on the board, KID play nice.
 

PMUM

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Vipermad, most of your post makes sense---EXCEPT for the part where you and Kid got into an argument on personal email. The net result was that Kid DID get a lifetime ban. Am I wrong or not?
 

PMUM

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Sorry, I should've known to ask Ben. I guess whenever I've got a question about people getting banned I'll ask Ben from now on. I take back my post above. Let's see how it went...
Moderator emails Kid, Kid DOESN'T email Moderator and puts it on the board (OOOOHHHHHH, the Horror!) and gets banned. My bad.

Sometimes it's best to put things up in public. Kid was banned until somebody (me) put it up on the board. Now why would you un-ban him today, but not last week?

The only problem I have with you is the fact that you are banned a guy that's been an active, problem free contributor for years because you didn't like his "smart-*** " tone. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure did seem like an abuse of 'power' to me.
 

brett

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Here's the problem Tony.

1) We didn't see anything that warranted a KID97GTS banning, and if the banning came from something that was behind the scenes....aren't you then taking personal matters into your own hands regarding this board?

2) You stated that you deleted his personal "attacks" on you. Did he threaten you? I doubt it. Did he tell you what he thought of you and your actions? That's probably closer to the truth. I don't have the ability to delete a post when someone starts a personal "attack" on me.

3) Honestly, Kid'97GTS really owes you nothing. If it started as a misunderstanding you should have been able to rectify it quickly with a post or a "non-confrontational" e-mail explaining it. (I saw your e-mail) If you were quick and concise with your explaination with the KID it would have been over in a flash, but you let it build to the point where you DID ban the guy. So far that's really been the most concerning act of all. It's laughable on one end and very serious on the other. Put him back on under his old name and let this rest, it's a big deal getting bigger by the moment. The one thing you should know by now is that nobody worth their salt on this board holds a grudge for something of this nature....not in the 4 or years or more I've been participating on the board.
 

Mike Brunton

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I guess I qualify now as one of the 'old timers'?

Anyways,

I've talked to Kid a few times before, and I really like the guy - he's funny, but helpful. I say he absolutely, positively should be allowed back onto the board without any hesitation or delay.

In addition to that, I have also noticed that threads seem to get locked or removed a LOT more quickly than they ever did before. I'd like to hear from the administrators of this site why that is the case? Maybe we have a new moderator who is a little trigger happy? Maybe something has happened or changed to make this so? The reason I say this is the post where the guy wanted the email address of the CEO of Chrysler. I was slightly harsh in my reply and said he had no beef with Chrysler, etc. That thread was locked.... still don't know why - (Vipermad, can you answer that one or was it someone else?)

I think, as a group, we need to have a good delineation between being responsible and mature, and being a bunch of snooty old men (and women). I notice that it was only recently that people like Kid, BigJim, and Treynor would post information about folk they raced on the street. I personally have no problem with that, I think we have all partaken in the stoplight grand prix to beat the next guy. I know I have. Having said that, we need to be careful not to endorse such behaviour, and we need to know when enough is enough. A story about going 140 on the highway zipping in and out of traffic is stupid, and should be criticized as such. A story about beating a Vette off the line from a stoplight (assuming that it went to 10 over the limit, say) is not stupid and shouldn't be beaten to death as silly and irresponsible. I think as a group we are smart enough to know what is reasonable and should be allowed and what is unreasonable and should be criticized.

Now, in defense of the board and the moderators, they are all people who have "real" jobs. Vipermad is not the ONLY person who has moderator priviledges, even though he is the most visible and active. I would like to propose that we do something I've seen on the Corvette Forum. Whenever a topic is closed, the person who closed it should identify themselves and post WHY it was closed. Just locking DOES make it look like we are living in **** world... not that we are, it just gives the appearance of it. Alot of members have stepped up here and said they feel the same way, and that outpouring of agreement on the issue NEEDS to be dealt with. If it's not, this board will wither and die.

I give all the kudos in the world to Tony, Joe, Jay and the others who run this board. It is a thankless and difficult job. In addition, I would strongly recommend that any administrator or moderator who feels the need to close, move, or remove a thread, acknowledge that they are doing so, why, and who to contact if there is a problem. My 'backup' for saying that is that I completely do not understand why the thread asking for the CEO of Chrysler's email address was locked. I don't know whether to take it as something personal (like my response was too harsh), or whether the original poster was just being silly. A LOT of hard feelings could be eased if it was set in stone that ALL posts being administratively changed MUST have a post by the moderator detailing what happened and why.

Can I get a "hell yeah" on that at least?

Oh, and I also vote for bringing Kid97GTS back pronto! He is a valuable member of this board, and I think banning him (whether temporarily or permanently) was a mistake. The only thing that should determine whether one is banned is PUBLIC actions on this board. If he did nothing too bad ON THE BOARD, he should NOT be banned. If a moderator banned him because of a personal problem, then I think we need to make sure that moderator understands the limit of his/her powers in this forum. Administrative priviledges should never, ever, be used as a way to exact personal revenge. That is the very height of corruption.

My 0.02 (plus some)
 

Tenney

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Ben, please re-instate Kid '97.
 

PMUM

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vipermad:
You're about as clueless as KID is Mumford! What is it you don't understand? Is it THAT difficult to follow? Can I make it clearer?

Hypothetically (do you know what that means?)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

Tenney

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

"Tuner Bake-off" - Treynor
 

Frank 03SRT

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I think Tony is going a good job. It must be a very demanding effort, and without pay. He is only human, and makes decisions and mistakes like everyone else, and we should show some understanding. This is a great thread though -- wondered why 49 people were on the board!
 

brett

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Tony, apparently you are not mentally up to the task of moderator and should be removed from your post. The emotion that you are displaying is disturbing. I know Mumford and he "may not" continue this battle with somebody who has completely lost touch with the facts. I know I won't. You personally attacked Mumford and he is looking at the facts as we "know" them. He doesn't have the ability to delete your post. He wouldn't delete it even if he did have the ability. We are dealing with facts and you are dealing with feelings. This has now become a black eye on the moderators of this board. Tony it's painfully apparent that you cannot handle the adversity, and in my opinion you should be removed from your post sooner than anyone involved should be "banned" or "revoked" of their privileges.
 

Janni

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Basic internet rules - things that belong off line should stay offline. Email is the preferred way for 2 people to communicate with one another. Public bashing of anyone on the board is not tolerable.

The moderators do a great job. I am happy that more posts are being locked / moved. I agree that if a post is locked, the moderator responsible should post the last note as to why. That way we all learn. Great idea!

People have a LOT of nerve bashing Tony and any other moderator and saying things like "this is OUR board." What have you done to assist on the board? Really arrogant - these people are volunteers - they give 110% and try to be very fair.

Any misunderstandings should be resolved between the 2 parties directly - only post on the board if you cannot get resolution DIRECTLY - just like folks do if they have a problem with a tuner or such.

I don't think its too much to ask to have 2 adults deal with their problems face to face (or email to email) without public bashing or airing of dirty laundry before anyone has a chance to get the facts.

I agree, bring Kid back, he should apologize to Tony for jumping the gun on his assumptions. Tony does a great job - he deserves a decent amount of respect for his efforts.

My $.02
 

PMUM

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

You're right Janni, this isn't OUR board. The VCA members should have no say as to how the board runs. I formally retract my naive sentence from earlier. This is TONY'S board! Is that what you were looking for?

Kinda hard for Kid to apologize when he's banned from TONY'S board.

Mahatma Mumford
 

brett

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

Janni,
I think you're wrong. That's the beauty of this thread. I don't agree with you, but it doesn't mean I don't "like" you. I have a difference of opinion with my friends and spouse all the time and I don't kick them out of the house. This issue isn't about apologies, feelings, or the amount of hard work and time Tony puts in on the board. It is simply about his "opinion" of right and wrong. There is NO WAY to justify revoking somebody's priveleges because of your personal opinion. Had there been a threat to someone or abusive language in my "opinion" the board has the right to lock a thread or delete a post. This is far from that. It was a blatant error on Tony's part to lash back in a matter that could have and been rectified easily, but his ego got in the way and it became ugly. Read his posts with an objective mind, he sounds worse than a jilted lover.
 

Gerald

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

I just can't hold myself back.... Sorry..

This is a public board and those that CHOOSE to write here KNOW that. If they want to write here, they know the consequences (privacy, assumptions, etc.) If they CHOOSE not to do it by email to email, more power to them. I enjoy reading these posts. So lets keep them coming!
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BTW, this is the ppls board. Even though the name or IP might belong to someone else, it's the ppl and their posting that make it such a wonderful sight. What's a radio station without listeners? NOISE...

Gerald
 

Jon 98GTS

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

You know, I really hate agreeing with Mumford (except when dissing Adelberg is involved) but I have to side with him on this one...

Here's the way I see it: Tony only reposts one of the Caldwell threads (which I believe to be an honest mistake). To quote Tony, "I figured I had already FIXED the stupid Caldwell thing, and it wasn't until, while he was calling names, that I found out there was ANOTHER."

Kid then responds because he feels lied to -- this is reasonable because, after all, he was told the posts were there and they were not. Maybe he over-reacted, maybe not. A deletion of the ****/Mensa posts is justified; a ban over a mistake and/or a miscommunication is not.

Tony has made it clear the ban is from his ruffled feathers. Again, I quote the moderator: "It's about a (and YOU CONFIRMED this) cry-baby who didn't offer me the common courtesy of a nice note..." There it is, folks: Tony's upset because he didn't get a "nice" note.

I counted four times in this thread where Tony denied deleting the posts but he doesn't deny that posts were deleted (or moved). This requires a Clinton-type parsing of his words to find out what is really going on... (Tony, you are only creating a cloud of suspicion when you say that you didn't delete certain threads but we all know that they WERE deleted. If you didn't do it, who did?)

I think the following quote from Tony best shows what we are dealing with: "I never DEMANDED an apology...I said one would be appreciated."

Pfffffft -- Gimme a break! My credit card company always says that they "appreciate" my payment; does that mean they don't "demand" money from me?

True, being a volunteer moderator is a thankless job. It also reminds me of the fact that the people you _don't_ want to be president of your homeowner's association are always the _only_ people who want to do it...
 

David Jenkins

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

This is kinda' cool. Hate to see the conflicts. Y'all know what to do. Everyone needs to **** up their dadgum pride and get on with things. An apology or two would be appreciated.On both sides. No "offensive" comments, and also no censorship. I'm going to print this so I have something to read to PUT ME TO SLEEP!dj
 

Snake

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Re: Kid \'97 GTS RIP 1999-2001

PMUM & Vansmack,
I pray you two are under 30, because otherwise you would have no excuse to write like a couple of ********** college freshman. I do commend you on managing to drag down Tony to your level though.

Tony,
Doubtful you will get an apology out of this, he believes hes right and its a little degrading do ask someone you were just talking smack about for something. I wouldn't e-mail you either to ask for the unban if I was in his position, I would be admitting I did something wrong when I felt I didn't. 50% of the replies to this thread don't seem to be paying any attention to your reasons for revoking his posting privileges anyway. Give Kid his posting privileges back and I'm sure the other two will quite down. You stated that you do more troubleshooting then moderation, I think most people agree with you.

This is something to be learned here, but **** if I know what it is.

Snake
 
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