Labor cost for removing/reinstalling Heads

monnieh

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I am getting ready to pull my heads and send them to Greg Good. I need to purchase some belanger headers and am getting some T&D's 1.7's. I have a budget and need to find out how much the labor will be. Can you give me some ideas on what it should cost? I live in D/FW area (Colleyville)
 

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Roughly 6-8 hours to pull heads, 8-10 to install, depending on what needs to be adjusted (roller rockers, pushrods, etc) Anyone who does it much faster than that is cutting corners and not using a torque wrench in all places. Obviously if you have multiple techs, it will go wuicker, but I am a firm believer of 1 man, 1 engine. I have seen WAAY to many engines that when taken apart, it is dead obvious two guys did the assembly.

1500 is not unreasonable at all for a head swap, rocker install and an exhaust install... in fact, I would say its at the low end. Exhausts arent always a peice of cake and you can easily sink 8 hours+ into an install if you run into issues with fitment, which certainly does happen.
 

JohnnyBravo

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I think Daniel is pretty much spot on. I was told almost the exact same thing: About 8 hours to get them off, and 8 hours to reinstall them. Not sure what shop time is in Dallas, but I'm sure it's at least $80-100/hour. So figure somewhere around $1,500-1,700 for all of the work (including headers and rockers). Don't forget to figure in the cost of the gaskets! Those suckers aren't cheap. The little things can add up pretty quickly.
 

SEASNAKE

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That's way to much time for the heads (If you're only doing heads that is). No thermostat change, cam, etc.? With a decent set of air tools and a lift, the heads can be off and reinstalled in less than 6 hours. Assuming the tech is familiar with Vipers...

The headers can indeed be more of a hastle. Can the tech weld and do they have welding equipment in house? Headers are much easier to get in place when the heads are off! 8 Hours is not unreasonable to get the headers installed.
 

GTSnake

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I paid around $500 for the head gaskets from a dealer:omg: I've since learned that they can be gotten for less. But talk about sticker shock when I first saw the bill.:shocked:
 

DLTARNU

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monnieh,

For the sake of your happiness and your Viper's future reliability, TAKE IT TO AN ESTABLISHED VIPER TUNER.

Unfortunately, I don't know any Viper tuners in Texas aside from Hennethief, so I can't recommend one, but I'm sure board members will know one in your area.

Doug Levin does *all* my work, and I couldn't be happier. When the 'official' Viper tech at the local Dodge dealership couldn't figure out how to open the hood for an oil change (I'm not kidding) I fled in horror.

No one touches the car now except Doug.

I also have Greg Good heads, installed by Doug and oh man... you are gonna be REAL happy when you get them on :headbang:
 

jk

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Give Keith Laxson a call, I am sure he can give you an estimate over the phone. His shop is in Lewisville and is a supporter of the North Texas Viper Club.
972-434-5800 or 214-674-9340
 

Jack B

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That's way to much time for the heads (If you're only doing heads that is). No thermostat change, cam, etc.? With a decent set of air tools and a lift, the heads can be off and reinstalled in less than 6 hours. Assuming the tech is familiar with Vipers...

The headers can indeed be more of a hastle. Can the tech weld and do they have welding equipment in house? Headers are much easier to get in place when the heads are off! 8 Hours is not unreasonable to get the headers installed.

Dan may have been a bit high on the hours - but I sure would prefer a car done his way versus your six hours to completion. I have done it multiple times, have a lift and have air tools and there is no way to do a GOOD job from off-to-on in six hours.
 

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Dan may have been a bit high on the hours - but I sure would prefer a car done his way versus your six hours to completion. I have done it multiple times, have a lift and have air tools and there is no way to do a GOOD job from off-to-on in six hours.

Perhaps my idea of "quality" is different than SEASNAKE, but Jack nailed it, there is NO WAY to do a head swap up to my or Jack's standards in that amount of time. MAYBE 7-9 hours total w/two techs that know exactly what they are doing, one on each side... but I posted above what I think of 2-tech engine builds.

Yes, I will take longer doing a car than a dealer or hack tuners, but I also charge less per hour in most cases, so it evens out anyway- but do you think they are going to take the time to get all the old gasket material off? check over everything? clean the head bolt threads? clean the cylinders and piston tops off? torque EVERYTHING to spec? replace worn clips/bolts? and actually take care not to break or scratch something that you cant even see? (yeah, dealers dont give a crap if they scratch the frame or something... *I* do)

PS- I would fire any guy who came through here and used an air tool during an engine build... ANYWHERE. I dont even use air tools for 90% of engine disassembly. Air tools break and scratch more things than they fix. Save them for getting suspension and drivetrain apart, where you can easily replace the fastener and nut if (when) the air tools rip it to shreads.

I stand by my rough times and our slogan- "Perfection. That is out only requirement."

My advice is to take the car somewhere that knows Vipers and prides themselves on quality, not price or time. I would also avoid any shop that pays its techs book time, as then they WILL be rushing your car along in most cases... even if the book is dead on at 8 hours, they get paid the same whether it takes 4, 6 or 8 hours... rushing? you bet.

Its your car, its your decision.
 
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hardtop

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Final GTS is right it takes time just in prep work.Cleaning out threads and cleaning off gasket material is very time consuming.
 

Jack B

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Final GTS is right it takes time just in prep work.Cleaning out threads and cleaning off gasket material is very time consuming.

Lets add setting the rockers, since most are going to go with after market roller rockers or what about the fuel connector or electrical connector that is stuck. I just changed heads and added studs, every threaded hole had to be re-tapped - the factory bolts tore up the aluminum threads. The studs sound easy, but, that alone was a four hour job. Like Dan said, just cleaning the piston tops could take a couple of hours and you wouldn't typically t get a viper tech (no offense Tatar) to go to that length.
 

Camfab

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I spent over 4 hours cleaning and vacuuming out the piston tops. It's almost embarrasing to admit how many hours I've put into my head and cam swap, of course I pulled the motor though.
 
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I would agree with Dan on the time reqiured to do any job on a Viper compaired to a regular car. The "book time" is what most any shop would charge and you are right about the rush factor. The difference and problem is that most owners have a problem paying for the extra hours it takes to properly and carefully do a job on an exotic car but we are still going to have to spend the extra time anyway to insure the job is right for the customer. I pay my Techs the hours they need reguardless of the time the customer is paying for to insure the quality is thier main concern. With this in mind you have to realize when you are having anything done to your Viper (here anyways) that there is not a lot of money being made, but enough to keep the shop going and the owners satisfied.

I will have to disagree on the power tools issue though as this is a good way to do dissassembly and the first round of assembly if you are going to make up any of the time you spend on the extra care. In the hands of a skilled Tech they are perfectly safe and we have never had an issue caused by a power tool.
 

SEASNAKE

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If we were working side by side and it took you 18 hours to swap heads on a viper, then I would be mooing and bringing you milk to drink. I know there are people who like the idea that they paid more to ensure that their baby was properly pampered. I'm just not that kind of person.

I did this job myself with hand tools, no lift and with heads I had not worked on before in about 10 hours and I am not a viper specialist. I did have to get my son's help with the hood. I assure you that all the bolts were clean and torqued to specification. I did give up cleaning the piston tops as unnecessary and I only retapped the holes that required it. Did I add a small scratch or two to my valve covers? Probably so, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over them.
 

SNKEBIT

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I will have to disagree on the power tools issue though as this is a good way to do dissassembly and the first round of assembly if you are going to make up any of the time you spend on the extra care. In the hands of a skilled Tech they are perfectly safe and we have never had an issue caused by a power tool.

I agree. Learn how to use your tools ad they are your friends.:2tu:
 

klamathpro

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18 hours done right, is about right. These 6 to 10 hour joker jobs could not possibly include the time to properly clean and inspect all the surfaces of old gaskets, stick polish the imperfections out, and powerwash and dry the heads, torque all the bolts, and just take the time to do it right. I'm sorry, but that's a fact.

Here's the breakdown from my recent experience, and I had a guy helping, and we took our time to inspect, clean, label and catagorize the parts and bolts:

1hour - Wipers, cowel, heater blower cover, hood removal and storage.
3.5 hours - Jack all fours, coolant drain, oil drain, coolant lines removal, vacuum line removal, spark plug wires removal, throttle cable disconnect, steering pump removal, thermostat housing removal, intake and valve cover removal.
1.5 hours - Spark plugs, exhaust manifolds, rocker and pushrod removal and label, both heads.

Notice that's six hours already.

2 hours Clean, Inspect, Prep, and Polish the intake, heads, thermostat housing, and block contact surfaces. - no shortcuts.
2 hours - Install and torque heads, rods, rockers, manifolds, and plugs.
5 hours - Reinstall and torque all parts, oil fill, coolant fill.
1 hour - Hood, blower cover, cowel, wipers.
1 hour - Burp coolant, inspect everything, drive and inspect again.

That's 17 hours, if you don't run into problems, which can happen in any install. Now tell me if any of these numbers sound unreasonable because the way I see it, 6 hours requires superman.
 

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I will have to disagree on the power tools issue though as this is a good way to do dissassembly and the first round of assembly if you are going to make up any of the time you spend on the extra care. In the hands of a skilled Tech they are perfectly safe and we have never had an issue caused by a power tool.

Ah, But when it is worded like this, I dont have as much of a problem with it. I have no problem with using POWER tools (ie; electric LOW TORQUE drivers to just run threads in and out), but air tools are where I have an issue. For the most part, air "drivers" are impact style or high-torque by design. The number of times I have seen high-torque air tools used for disassembly/assembly of sensitive bolts, and the tech skips the torque wrench altogether makes me want to scream. (and this also doesnt include the techs who overtorque with the air tools, making the torque wrench application...pointless.)

My biggest issue with impacts for disassembly of the engine is that when a bolt comes zipping out, and the socket gets free while still spinning, has a tendancy to find all types of wonderfull and expensive items to wack into and scratch... not acceptable. Using an air ratchet is OK in most cases, but then again, I could probably do it faster by hand! Assembly... is just a no-no in an engine. To do it properly, especially in big-dollar engines, you should FEEL each bolt go in so you know if there are issues with the fastener or threads, which isnt possible when driving it in.
 
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Tom Sessions

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Lets see drove car in at 545 pm set rack raised car drained coolant removed intake, valve covers,old rockers,ps pump,HEADERS, and stocks heads 700 pm started cleaning block inspected cylinder walls amd piston tops cleaned as needed.745 installed new head gaskets and stryker heads.reinstalled headers,installed new jesel rockers and 3/8 push rods.adjusted as needed.reassembled all other componets removed.refilled coolant and started car at midnight.Went home at 1230 am.looked over car the next morning all ok.Did I use air tools yes.Did anything fly off while using air tools no I know how to use my tools.I only use air tools to remove head bolts.All bolts cleaned and tighten to proper specs.

I pride my self on the customer looking at there car when I am finished and not being able to tell I was there.This is why Chrysler paid me to go to the customers homes during the intake valve service action on the 03 srt/10s a few years back.repaired over 25 of them with not as much as a drop of oil on the frame.


So 18 hours to a head swap Not for me you won't
 

Bob K

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Interesting reading since I am also considering heads and rockers (and larger throttle bodies). I was told by my Viper tech that with 23,000 miles on my car it would not be a good idea to change the rockers because the stock ones will have caused the valves to wear their own special groves, etc. Does this make sense? (it sounds logical to me - a non mechanic type). Also, what should I expect to pay for a set of heads with mine as a swap?

Bob K
 

SquadX

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Interesting reading since I am also considering heads and rockers (and larger throttle bodies). I was told by my Viper tech that with 23,000 miles on my car it would not be a good idea to change the rockers because the stock ones will have caused the valves to wear their own special groves, etc. Does this make sense? (it sounds logical to me - a non mechanic type). Also, what should I expect to pay for a set of heads with mine as a swap?

Bob K

I know this is old but wanted to know if this is true as I am about to do a head/cam swap and install 1.7 roller rockers?
 

97snk

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I know this is old but wanted to know if this is true as I am about to do a head/cam swap and install 1.7 roller rockers?

Anyone? Since I m going to do the same upgrade...
 

1TONY1

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I know this is old but wanted to know if this is true as I am about to do a head/cam swap and install 1.7 roller rockers?

Seeing as I put rockers on mine at 50,000 ... I disagree ;)
Never heard that before.
Most that I do...anyone does, is going to have 7,000 to 25,000 miles. It's the norm to put rockers on way before the step is taken to do head work/new valves.

But if you are doing heads you should end up with new valves anyway.
 

97snk

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Seeing as I put rockers on mine at 50,000 ... I disagree ;)
Never heard that before.
Most that I do...anyone does, is going to have 7,000 to 25,000 miles. It's the norm to put rockers on way before the step is taken to do head work/new valves.

But if you are doing heads you should end up with new valves anyway.

Thanks for the quick reply, that answers my question...
 
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