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Lug Nut tightening Spec for Vipers

Discussion in 'RT/10 and GTS Discussions' started by Got Venom, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. Got Venom

    Got Venom Enthusiast

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    I have misplaced the number I had written down, and seem to remember 95 ft. lbs. Does anyone have the real number handy for a Gen II 18" wheel Viper. Thanks

    I tried using the search feature first, and came up empty?
     
  2. plumcrazy

    plumcrazy Viper Owner

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    i use 100 lbs. and after a drive a bit, i recheck them.
     
  3. Chuck 98 RT/10

    Chuck 98 RT/10 Enthusiast

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    I tighten to 95. Someday the government will require automatic lug torq sensors to warn motorists that their lug nuts aren't tight.
     
  4. Steve-Indy

    Steve-Indy VCA Venom Member VCA Member

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    Good one, Chuck!!!

    2001 Owners' Manual says "80-100 ft-lbs".

    2001 Service Manual says "90 ft-lbs".

    We are all in the same range...I personally torque them to 90 ft-lbs.
     
  5. Got Venom

    Got Venom Enthusiast

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    Thanks,

    I do another thing, I know they say not to do, but since I own a Manufacturing company, and I made the actual 303 st stl lug nuts that are on my car, I use about the size of a BB of anti-seize grease, and just swipe it once along the length of the stud. This tiny amount is just enough to keep that wretched screeching sound when taking lug nuts off and on, that tears at the integrity of the threads, each time you take off and put on your lug nuts. They say it can incorrectly over-tighten your lug nuts, but at 95 ft. pounds, and the small amount I use, I don't think it is harming anything. I have been doing this to all my cars now, and never have that dreaded lug nut that seems to go on and off really tight from corrosion etc.
     
  6. eucharistos

    eucharistos Viper Owner

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    got venom

    can you post a pic of your wheel, center cap, lug nuts :eater:

    tia
     
  7. Got Venom

    Got Venom Enthusiast

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    Here is a pic of a damaged rear wheel I got to test the machining I was planning on doing. It is a side by side comparison of my stock wheels at the time, and the machined test wheel.





    [​IMG]


    Here is the backside. Notice all the strength in the ribs are still there.

    [​IMG]


    Here is a side by side comparison of stock lug nuts, that are also used on Dodge minivans, and the custom 303 st stl ones I made and sold to JonB for a while back in 2004.

    [​IMG]



    Then this is a close up of the finished wheel and custom milled center caps and lug nuts.

    [​IMG]


    Then here are couple of pics showing the car, and how the wheels look more transparent when spinning now, compared to stock.

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  8. Olddudesrule

    Olddudesrule Enthusiast

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    +1. I've always done the same. Good insurance as far as I'm concerned.
     
  9. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    I thought we discussed this before.... regarding the design of this wheel and your modifications. The ribs do not connect to the central hub section of the wheel and you removed material in a critical section. There is going to be a significant chance that your wheels will beak, definitely wouldn't take it to the track and I wouldn't recommend anyone doing this or using those wheels. Tests would have put them in the trash bin.

    Sorry to sound harsh, but sometimes people need to be aware especially when a modifications can endanger lives.

    There were the comparison stress images to illustrate the peak stress areas in that wheel (red) which I took the time to model to show you..

    Location of the high stress region in the stock wheel (the red areas):
    [​IMG]


    Location of the high stress region in the modified wheel (red is where it'll start to crack):
    [​IMG]

    Wheels in CAD:
    [​IMG]

    Compare the spoke connection section to the hub in CAD:
    [​IMG]

    The spoke connection material around the hub of the modified wheel:
    [​IMG]

    The spoke connection material around the hub of the stock wheel:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  10. white out

    white out Viper Owner

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    Anybody know what the pitch/thread is of the oe studs?

    Nick
     
  11. Got Venom

    Got Venom Enthusiast

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    chop a new 5 spoke wheel in half like you did in the cross section above, and it too will look scary. I have driven about 10,000 miles on these wheels now, done burn outs, spun out a couple of times, and they are doing fine. I am the only one that drives on these, so I prefer not to put them in the trash. Worry about what you eat or drink tonight, because it is probably more dangerous than my wheels. So don't trash my wheels. Show us something you have built for a Viper, so I can draw some silly pictures and trash those.
     
  12. 2000_Black_RT10

    2000_Black_RT10 Viper Owner

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    The reply was not intended to hurt feelings, but your comment "Notice all the strength in the ribs are still there." is incorrect. My trash comment is not subjective, looks or styling is not an engineering goal. In my career, we deal with all sorts of challenges, the design studio would love to have a certain look disregarding characterisitcs of durability, strength, function, federal standards, safety, etc.. it's the basic reason why concept cars look so much different than production cars...

    If you look at the SRT10 5 spokes, the spokes lead into the hub portion of the wheel are a different design, in such that they are much thicker thick w/o flanges / ribs, whereas your wheel is thin and relies on flanges / ribs for strength and a convex dish shape surface for stiffness. Burnouts are not example of lateral strength testing.

    I don't have pics of what to show you what I have done for Vipers, but I can tell you that I did work at the Viper / PVO / SRT engineering group several years ago for Chrysler in Michigan and I design car stuff for a living. You can call them silly pictures, sure.. that's ok, but it's called engineering, and folks like us are responsible for designs and will always call attention to something that would be considered unsafe rather than sitting back and ignoring folks like yourself who may not be aware of the modifications they make. This is the second time that I have recommended that your wheel modification is not safe and yet you broadcast this to folks who may not be knowledgable and may do the same thing you did to their wheels.

    Here's a couple SRT10 5 spoke pics for reference.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Best regards,
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  13. luc

    luc Viper Owner

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    your modified wheels certainly look very nice but Mike make a good point and since he seems to have the engineering background maybe you should not dimiss his post as simply "trashing" your work.
    Luc 00GTS
     
  14. eucharistos

    eucharistos Viper Owner

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    too technical for me,

    [​IMG]

    but they are beautiful (wheels lug nuts, and cap) :omg:

    i guess in this case i'm glad i lack the skill to do such a mod, as i would be tempted

    thanks for posting the pics and for the replies - all educational -
     
  15. Got Venom

    Got Venom Enthusiast

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    We had the rear wheel tested, with one Ted had lying around, and they put 2,000 pounds on the hub hanging out on a 6 foot pipe and ran it through 100,000 cycles to see if the center will break out. It passed ;-) I wish I knew where that wheel we tested was. I think Ted is using it as a coffee table. I would pay to have ET wheels test it side by side with the current skinny 5 spoke, and see which one fails first. I would have them tes all the way to failure. Then i would post the results from a real test. I will ask Ted to see if he knows where it went. Meanwhile don't go riding on your motorcycle, it might be dangerous.
     
  16. georgethedog

    georgethedog Viper Owner

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    Be thankful that someone on here is trying to help. I love the look, but you would not find them on my car based upon what I have seen. Isn't it obvious that you took out a high-stress area? I am willing to bet that if you took the design to a wheel maker they would do some modifications in certian areas that need reinforcement. They may look the same from the outside, but I bet they would have a different structural design on the inside. You can be in a state of denial, but lay off the smart comments to someone who is just trying to help. It serves no purpose.
     
  17. Steve-Indy

    Steve-Indy VCA Venom Member VCA Member

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    Nick asked: "Anybody know what the pitch/thread is of the oe studs?"

    1/2"x20
     
  18. vancouver-gts

    vancouver-gts Viper Owner

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    Agree with above post.

    As much as I like the improved looks of the wheel it posted ,it definitely lessened the area of distribution for a stressed area close to the hub. Further more , the beveled milled part [ albeit it looks nice ] has a sharp edge that would promote cracking . It should have been radiused to lessen that scenario;). I'm sure a modified wheel wouldn't be allowed to track legally. The s/s nuts are beautiful and heat treated ones;) should have been standard issue on the Viper. S/S is softer than steel ,hence the use of those crappy nuts with s/s jackets on our Vipers. The factory piece belongs only to Cherokees and Chrysler minivans.
     
  19. ViperGTS

    ViperGTS Enthusiast

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    Lucky us. We have the German TUEV. And they ask for an expert opinion and tests under heavy loads to see whether the rim will fail, break or not ... going 200 mph on 'unsafe' rims on the autobahn is no fun.

    P.S.: you do not know about the torque to tighten the lug nuts but you are an expert for modifying rims?
    I am curious (by) now!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  20. vancouver-gts

    vancouver-gts Viper Owner

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    I'd like add to this. Chromed nuts are available at most tire shops , but found the beveled contact area much less than the factory piece and would require constant check for torque. The machined s/s nut in above post shows what the area should look like , so shop around to make getting a right one.
     
  21. REDBLACK

    REDBLACK Enthusiast

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    Geez, just get a race proven, light weight, better looking 3 piece forged wheel from FORGELINE that the VRL and Comp Coupe use, in addition to cars running in the ALMS and Rolex Grand Am, torque the lugs to 95 ft. lbs. and forget about it.:2tu: Personally, I would never mount cut out OEM wheels regardless of supposedly improved cosmetics which I personally don't like either.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2010
  22. FastZilla

    FastZilla Viper Owner

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    ...I thought you tested for torque at the rear wheels/tires, not at the lug nuts. Now I'm going to have to re-dyno my car! I should still be able to turn more than 95-100 ft pounds at the lug nuts.
     

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