Mopar "650HP" pkg installed

I'd be pissed. Sure hope mopar works out the bug.

 

I have been watching that thread. 70rwhp is still a very healthy increase in power, but I think most of us who have seen that kit expected less than spectacular results without a cam change.

 

Gee... I think I said something like this was going to happen?

1. No Cam.
2. No particular exhaust.
3. Questionable supplied tune.
4. Ram SRT-10. [Automatically more drivetrain loss]
5. Oddball intake manifold with single throttle body.

There are a lot of factors that could have contributed to this, because Mopar is claiming numbers for a complete package, while selling it incomplete.

 

Heh, no surprise.

Looks like my excitement level has subsided. Should've listened the the smarter folks from the beginning and known this wouldn't work.

 

Mopar aftermarket = High prices & medicore performance.

 

I know there was a different engine management system involved as well. Did they get that done as well?

 

Wow, I was just looking at that package yesterday. Was hoping to see a bit more HP gain, especially with the header upgrade. +100rwhp would have been nice to see at least.

 

He got the factory computer back and no increase in HP. I was really liking this kit idea but not for that gain.

 

Kinda misleading. Those trucks lose 20% through the drivetrain while we lose 11%.

Very normal to see the 510 hp truck dyno 400 while we dyno 445.

Id expect to see a stocker go from 445 to 530 rwhp for a 85 rwhp gain on our cars. Nothing special but add a 710 cam to that (700 bucks) and the cam is worth around 70 rwhp by its self ( already verified as my stock cam was 485 and after 710 cam i got 555 rwhp)

85 rwhp from the mopar kit plus mandatory gen4 headers plus 70 rwhp from the 710 cam is 155 rwhp for total of 600 rwhp..

Thats not factoring in that the mopar kit and 710 cam will likely feed of of eachother and that 155 rwhp gain will likely be 180 plus rwhp gain with them working together.

Im not deterred whatsoever. Call roe racing and ask them what you will pick up from there heads plus headers. 30-35 for the heads and 10-15 for the headers for maybe 50 rwhp...

70 rwhp from a fancy head package plus headers on a truck is very very good on the stock cam.

 

Yea but K&N advertises a 15 HP increase, so that's 15+ 180 but the K&N probably does more with the heads package and even more with the cam, so figure 25, and then the exhaust will be, so we're at a total of 900 rwhp.

Seriously though, until someone does it, this is all speculation. I'd relax on throwing out numbers until someone puts a compete package together. You have very few data points to speculate from.

 

I guess Tom will have to let everyone know real soon...

 

85 rwhp for how much $$$$? Some please update me.

 

Whats the question...? This is a Mopar kit, figure 10K+ Install... but it all goes back to what I said in the old thread- Mopar is claiming a 650 Horsepower package, but is selling it incomplete without exhaust, cam, or other accompanying modifications that would actually make it produce that number.

Basically, no different than selling a 1500 Horsepower Twin Turbo package, and then telling the customer at Pickup that the turbos aren't included, so it will only make 600 until he buys them and puts them on too.

 

Except in that scenario they are at least acknowledging it needs more, Mopar doesn't feel we need that disclaimer.

 

That's what I thought--just wanted to make sure. Thanks. So, $10K (plus install) for 85hp gain. Well, that's a rip-off IMO. If it included exhaust, cam & other mods, well ok; but it apparently does not. Dissappointed in MOPAR, but certainly not surprised--not one bit surprised.

 

It just seems shockingly stupid to pawn this off on such a small market where most of your potential buyers are not complete clowns.

 

351..

Ive dynoed my car mod by mod. Ive got hundreds of dyno pulls.

This truck just verified 70 rwhp with nothing but heads and headers. That is sick on those trucks.

Our cars will hit 85 rwhp with that package. It is basically stryker heads. You add the 710 cam or somthing from greg and you will hit a minimum of 150 rwhp and likely more to 200..

Just a simple stock head porting job plus the 710 cam has been verified at 120 rwhp gain..this stryker package plus a cam on our cars will be monstrous.

Your intake anology is pointless. At this point youve dynoed a few bolt ons and tune. Ive dynoed two differant cams. Both of which people misunderstood and saw the results first hand.

Go on that truck site and see how many of them dont touch 500 rwhp with head and cam and then that mopar package will hold more weight.

 

The problem is that it's billed as a "650HP" package. That's 150HP gain. You can spin these numbers a LOT of ways and there are also outside factors to consider, but to make this as simple a possible, let's look at it two ways.
Ram with 20% driveline loss.
Stock 500HP = 400rwhp
650HP package = 520rwhp
That's a gain of 120 rwhp. The Ram above gained 71rwhp (not to mention 4rwtq). That's not even close, assuming the same dyno was used. Even if the conditions were different, you're not making up that gap.
Viper with 11% driveline loss.
Stock 500HP = 445rwhp
650HP package = 578rwhp
Technically you should pick up 133rwhp. That's pretty doubtful with what actually comes with the kit.
When combined with the cam, it might get you there, but then kit should COME WITH the cam and any other parts to actually reach the numbers the kit is using.

 

Thanks. I wasn't in the mood to explain it to him.

And Twister, my intake analogy was sarcasm. I was mocking your ricer math, where horsepower gains are an additive property.

With regards to your background of dyno'ing your car mod by mod, it doesn't apply to this case unless you've performed the changes we've spoken of and have data. I'm not concerned with what you've done, it doesn't relate to this topic.

The package doesn't perform as advertised. You're not going to pick up 200rwhp by just adding a cam to this kit. You take your car back to stock, buy this kit, buy the cam, install nothing else, and I will pay for your entire setup if you dyno 640+ RWHP SAE Corrected.

 

If you read the details of the package it states with a comp cam 150 hp plus. They let you choose the cam. They could easily have added the mild babt 708 mopar cam and the number will be 85 rwhp plus 20 rwhp from the cam for 125 hp crank gain. Or a monster comp coupe cam at 85 rwhp for a 200 crank hp gain. Instead they let you decide what you want. You pick the headers and the cam.

Yea its misleading no doubt and its sad this truck guy had to read the fine print to see a comp cam is needed for the 150 rwhp


Lets be honest here. Who in there right mind would spend 12k on a fancy stryker head gen4 build and gen4 headers and not spend 500-800 bucks on a cam?

Im probally still gonna do the mopar package if I keep the gen3. Stryker heads plus the gen4 look is very inviteing.

 

Hmmmmmmm.....

650 rwhp minus 20% drivetrain loss equalls what..

65+65 is 130..

650 crank hp minus 20% drive train loss (130) equals 520 rwhp.

The guy hit 512 rwhp.

Were saying only 71 rwhp..the guy had a tune ect before he even did the kit.could have easily been an 80 rwhp gain on the truck wich would be close to 100 rwhp on our cars if he was totally stock.

Mopar dosent bs. They label the 708 cam as a 6-8 hp increase and really its more like 8-15 rwhp peak and 20-30 through the curve....

If you read the vtcoa page they had to do modifications to make the kit work on the truck.

This is not the end all conclusion on the mopar kit

 

I didnt' read that entire thread, but I wonder if they sent the ECM back to Mopar to be reflashed. I believe that is part of the package.

 

Yes, they did. It made no difference. They tried the Mopar tune as well as a custom tune.

 

351CARLO.......Ok, I'm not saying I think it's going to do 640+, but if it does do you wanna offer to pay for mine too? I'm still thinking about doing this kit and if there's even a chance I can get someone else to pay for it, I'll take it....LOL.

 

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With the 20% drive train loss factor the Roe SC gave me about 700HP.
I have ordered the Mopar 650 HP upgrade kit and should be installing it next week.
This will be a well documented project and I will post all the details.

 

This upgrade will be going on my 04 viper. I would of went with the Roe on the Viper but I could'nt figure out how to get it under the hood.

 

Here ya go....

 

Wow. Only thing that's missing is Rat Fink behind the wheel.

 

That looks like fun.