Only 640 hp? ***

swexlin

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I believe driveline losses in these cars are only about 12% or so. No torque converter to eat up power like in a car with an automatic.
 

NSviper

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They have to leave room for the next few years.
They can't do anything more with the interior really, so the HP will have to bump up what else would entice someone in the coming years.
More HP with a vert and ACR option coming.

Exactly....
 

shooter_t1

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I'm kinda underwhelmed with the 640 number myself, but do like the interior and think it looks to be what was needed to make the new car appeal to a broader spectrum of buyers. It's got the nannies so people that come over from Ferrari's have a fighting chance to drive them more then 200 miles without wrapping it around a tree. Although it's usually the torque that (Snake)bites the sweater vest crowd and nannies won't save everyone.
That being said, I am only really interested in an ACR version. If the ACR looks like the new GTSR and has 700 hp...I will buy one.

So does that put me in the hater crowd?
 

Pythonpete

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I'm kinda underwhelmed with the 640 number myself, but do like the interior and think it looks to be what was needed to make the new car appeal to a broader spectrum of buyers. It's got the nannies so people that come over from Ferrari's have a fighting chance to drive them more then 200 miles without wrapping it around a tree. Although it's usually the torque that (Snake)bites the sweater vest crowd and nannies won't save everyone.
That being said, I am only really interested in an ACR version. If the ACR looks like the new GTSR and has 700 hp...I will buy one.

So does that put me in the hater crowd?

That's it, I think you are an official hater!! :D
 

Dan Cragin

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I think it will be no problem to get this engine to 700hp and pass emissions in all states. I cannot wait to get one!
 

Vipuronr

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I was there last night and think the SRZ team did a great job overall with the car. They listened and brought the styling back to more of the Gen I/II, interior greatly improved, electronics more in line with the competition. There are bound to people who find one or more aspects of the car objectionable, happens with many new products not just cars. this 640hp engine is just the first iteration for the Gen V, leaving much room for engine options and after market parts/work.

I guess it depends if you're a half full or half empty kind of person. Coming from the distinct possibility there would never be another Viper, I would say this is quite a re-birth!

If I had the money for one, I'd be right up there at the front of the line. This not being the case, I will just have to admire those Fortunate enough to own one.

But I still love my RT/10, just for the record!:D
 

tzortzViper

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345's, here are a few things I figured out: I think people should buy or acquire the new transmission ratios and get the 3.55's:

SRT just used custom gear ratios that are roughly the same when you multiply the transmission gear ratio by the rear end gear for the first 3 gears and of course changed 5th and 6th...

So, in absolute terms taking into account transmission gear ratio X rear end gear ratio, now the Gen V has 2% more TQ multiplication in 1st gear and second gears(easy to spin the tires in those gears anyway while still being able to go 0-60 in 1st gear), about 5.5% more TQ multiplication in 3rd, 13.5% more tq multiplication in 4th, 17% more in 5th up to 190 MPH and only 2% less than the .74 5th with the 3.07 old style transmission/rear end gear ratio setup!


So: when you take into account that in the power band where the Gen V is making the +40 LBS/Ft, then the torque multiplication by gear is the following:

Gen4:...............................................................................Gen V:

1st 560 RWTQ * 2.66* 3.07 = 4573.................................1st 1st 600 RWTQ * 2.26 * 3.55 = 4814 4814/4573 = 5% More TQ multiplication
2nd By similar calculation = 3060.......................................2nd By similar calculation = 3365 3365/3060 = 10% More TQ multiplication
3rd = 2235 ......................................................................3rd = 2535 2535/2235 = 13% More TQ multiplication
4th = 1719.......................................................................4th = 2130 2130/1719 = 24% More TQ multiplication
5th = 1272.......................................................................5th = 1640 1640/1272 =29% More TQ multiplication
6th = 860.........................................................................6th = 1342 ==> Forget about this comparison.... but 1342/1272 is still 5.5% more TQ multiplication than stock 5th when the MPH of the Gen 4 and Gen 5 in this side by side race to top speed would necessitate the Gen 5 having to shift into 5th gear at about 190 MPH....

So when people are upset about only 40 more HP, they are not taking into account the gearing, as the Gen 5 has about 5% more power you will feel in 1st, 10% more in 2nd, 13% more in 3rd when aero drag starts to become a factor, 24% more in 4th, and 29% more in 5th until 190 MPH. In loose terms since the torque curves of the gen 4 and 5 are fairly similar except for the Gen 5's staying flat to the very end as depictrd in the graphs shown to us, we can reason to multiply the HP by these numbers to illustrate to the people upset by the absolute power numbers that 1st gear has 640 X 1.05 = 672 HP, 2nd gear has 640 X 1.1 = 704HP, 3rd gear 640 X 1.13 = 723.2 HP, 4th gear 640 X 1.24 = 794 HP. 5th gear (up to 190 MPH) 640 X 1.29 = 826 HP.

So with this gearing, the Gen5 will accelerate like iit has this much more power in each gear as compared to the Gen 4.....

What I am saying is that the Gen 5 will eat the Gen 4 alive in a mile race or a race to the top speed. All this because of gearing......

Interesting?

YES!

I cant believe it!

What kind of assumptions are those?

5th Gear and 826HP?? Are you serious?

.
 

ontariomystic

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Keep in mind that ZR1's and 2013 GT500's are only making their rated horsepower under ideal conditions. Take those cars out on a summer day and stop at a few traffic lights and the power drops way down from the computers pulling timing from heat soak. That never recovers until you give the car a long cool down. I'd prefer the naturally aspirated, big engine approach anyday.
 

BCBowers

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I cant believe it!

What kind of assumptions are those?

5th Gear and 826HP?? Are you serious?
He's demonstrating the effective torque multiplication of the gearing. You know... the reason a car accelerates more quickly in lower gears.
 

Paolo Castellano

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I cant believe it!

What kind of assumptions are those?

5th Gear and 826HP?? Are you serious?

.

Tzortz,

Back in the day, I had an aftermarket transmission installed into my Viper that had taller 1,2 and 3rd gear ratios. It was Jerico dogring 5-speed road race transmission. At the time, my car had 465 RWHP and 503 RWTQ which was a lot more than everybody else's stockers @ about 400-420 RWHP and 450-470 RWTQ. My car easily spanked everybody especially in the first 3 gears. Well, as happy as I was with the lightning quick shifts of the dog ring lift and shift box, when I raced a stock Gen 2 and got my ass handed to me, I realized I had to change the gears and that my car had not become any slower or less powerful, I just had taller gears and therefore the lesser powered cars I would normally spank, were now spanking me!

My example is comparing a Gen 4 with it's stock gearing and torque curve and numbers to a Gen 5 with 40 more HP/TQ and revised gearing.

You could also take a Gen 5 and de-tune it to the identical power numbers and torque curve profile and also put the Gen 4 differential gear and transmission ratios, this car would need the additional power in those gears to stay even with the current Gen V configuration.
 
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InjectTheVenom

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But what's the benefit of underrating HP when it comes to selling a car?
You think in reality they have 675 HP but the chose to advertise it as 640?
Kinda counter productive no?

I seem to remember it was something like getting around tighter regulations to underrate a car.
 

Boxer12

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Am I wrong in thinking that this looks like a warmed over Gen IV engine? Forged internals aside, where did they get the extra HP? Just a more aggressive tune to get more out of the cam? Different intake manifold? Different heads?

I'd be curious to see all the specs of the powerplant.

I haven't read all the comments (6 pgs already) but as I understood from SRT, the drivetrain was certified by the Feds and had to be maintained for this Gen due to the cost of the recertification process...the bean counters are to blame!!
 

SylvanSRT

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publically under rating an engine wont get you a law suit like for had w the Cobra Mustangs years ago, when all the cars were found to be under the "claimed" hp
 

BCBowers

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publically under rating an engine wont get you a law suit like for had w the Cobra Mustangs years ago, when all the cars were found to be under the "claimed" hp
I'll never forget that whole debacle with the '99 Cobra. I owned a '97 Cobra at the time and followed it closely. Problem with those cars is that they were way overrated. The engine was supposed to make 320 crank horse and they were dynoing in the 230-240s.
 

Viper Specialty

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These are the ratios:

1st 2.26
2nd 1.58
3rd 1.19
4th 1.00
5th 0.77
6th 0.63
Axle Ratio 3.55
Overall Top-gear 2.24

All current specs can be seen here...
http://www.drivesrt.com/assets/reveal/docs/2013-srt-viper-spec-sheet.pdf

NICE.

I just ran them through a calculator and compared the G5 setup to the G4 w/.81-.63 modification. It looks like they are nearly identical in terms of performance, with the only difference being that the G5 has a slightly narrower spread, while the G4Mod has a wider spread, but is more evenly spaced through the gears with regard to rev-drop during a shift. The G5 has a goofy jump from 3rd to 4th, they are too close together. Ideally, 4th should have been a .96 or so to get rid of the near 50% difference in rev drop from 2-3 and 4-5 as there is from 3-4.

My only comment at this time is that I wonder how this is going to affect mileage & Gas Guzzler nonsense. Sure, it will make it more usable, but it will now be near 1800 RPM @ 65 mph, which is a BIG jump from 1200RPM @ 65 with the old .50/3.07

If someone wants to check it out or post a screen shot comparison, I just used this application to visualize it: http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/inforatios.html
 
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joedud

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Sorry if this is a simple question/answer, but why not just deliver the Gen V with upgraded bolt-ons, take it to 675HP? On a 100K car what would better flowing headers, cats, exhaust add to the final price, 4-5K? Seems like good $ to HP figure, and accomplishes a final number that would please most owners. I thought the aftermarket upgrade to my Gen IV was worth every penny.
 

SnakeBitten

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Sorry if this is a simple question/answer, but why not just deliver the Gen V with upgraded bolt-ons, take it to 675HP? On a 100K car what would better flowing headers, cats, exhaust add to the final price, 4-5K? Seems like good $ to HP figure, and accomplishes a final number that would please most owners. I thought the aftermarket upgrade to my Gen IV was worth every penny.

Will it pass emissions with that though? It would be nice to have that part of the "Track" package though.
 

Viper Specialty

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The data approach is useful, but there is no better way than to visualize it. The link I posted above allows you to do so, and even tell you shift points and speeds, and rev drops between gears.
 

ROCKET62

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I think the stated 640 number was because of the "Ferrari Limiter" that Fiat built in.

Looks to be underrated and it will be fun to see some real numbers once it hits the streets.

For those that think this is still a 20 year old truck engine - you know nothing about the history of the engine and the evolution of it. If you're going to make that analogy - you might as well say - heck it's really 150 year old 4-stroke combustion technology - blah, blah, blah. I only have one complaint - lose the plastic engine covers - look cheesy to me.
 

slitherv10

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Ok guys !!

Look at these stats on 0-60 times for the mustang your all cooked up about and its HP rating. First of all you can see on teh chart the 2011 gt500 shelby does the same numbers as the 1996 GTS does. Hp rating for that car is 550HP and 510Trq. 96 GTS is 450HP and 490 Trq. Yet the same quarter and 0-60 times. Now take the Gen III cars with 505 Hp and less Hp again that that Mustang, and you get numbers beating that 550 Hp car. Numbers mean nothing. It is what is put to the ground. The 2010 ACR with 38 less Hp and 40 less trq than the ZR1 put out better numbers and Nurburing numbers they still cant beat.

With the new SRT GTS, the new mUstang with its 650 Hp will be eaten alive by this Viper if history tells the tale. If you do the equations , the Gen 4 cars and even the Gen 3 cars will keep up and maybe take the 2013 Shelby. The Nwe 2013 will destroy it in all aspects. Wait and see. Then all the mustang guys will ** hum. Where were they in Nurburing?...where are tehy in the 24 lemans...nowhere!!..They dont belong there. They can't compete there. Even with all that HP they supposidly produce.

Proof is in the pudding and, those guys never stood or stand a chance once again. The ZR-1 will also be looking at the LED taillights of the New SRT. They wre with 38 more Hp and will once again with less.

Here is the link to the 0-60 and quarter times of the mustang and which ever car you want to look up


http://www.zeroto60times.com/Ford-0-60-mph-Times.html
 

SylvanSRT

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a number of years ago a car mag/rag did a comparo of the Ford GT, Corvette ZO6, and The Dodge Viper SRT-10('04 or '05 so 510 hp) at Gingerman Raceway in SW Michigan the best track time was basically a tie w/ Viper and GT. The Viper is/was way down on hp compared to the GT
 

1BADGTS

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SRT IAM POSITIVE would have LOVED to produce a 700 hp motor the problem is how do you do it and STILL STAY IN BUDGET AND PASS EMISSIONS .Superchanging exotic valvetrain ,dry sump ect is out because of the Rand D costs .Modifying the existing platform (bigger cam )is also out because it would never pass emissions and driveability tests .The Viper is at a disatvantage because there s no other platform in CHRYSLER to share parts with .Ford instance has that new MUSTANG MOTOR producing 660 hp BUT that engine platform is shared on a million other FORD cars and trucks per year
 

1BADGTS

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Sorry if this is a simple question/answer, but why not just deliver the Gen V with upgraded bolt-ons, take it to 675HP? On a 100K car what would better flowing headers, cats, exhaust add to the final price, 4-5K? Seems like good $ to HP figure, and accomplishes a final number that would please most owners. I thought the aftermarket upgrade to my Gen IV was worth every penny.
Because not in a MILLION YEARS would it pass emissions and driveability tests. They also could have put a dry sump in there but THATS EXPENSIVE TO DEVELOP
 

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