Panoz GT1/Viper Spec Track Car

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

We have discussed the desire for Dodge to make a Viper for track use only. Something like the Panoz GT1. Perhaps A Panoz with a Viper V10 and T56 would be a good start. The Panoz GT1 power plant is a Fix Or Repair Daily (FORD). 5 Panoz GT1's were at Sears point a few weeks ago and 2/5 lost their engines. I think Panoz and Dodge should have a relationship. Dodge offers several crate engines that would be more reliable than the FORD. The Ford engine is cast iron with Al heads. I do not know the net weight but I would guess the the V10 (Al block and heads) is within 100 pounds of the FORD engine. Or An Outlaw 5.9 crate engine??

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[NoPistons]

you can buy a gts-r if you have the money and the proper license, i though.
how about a judd v10 if you got the money.
thats what the olive garden car was running at petit lemans in atlanta this year. i loved the sound! too bad it ran into a porsche. if anyone saw it on tv or in person, i actually have the speedline wheel from the wreck. its a 17*16 or 17 rim that weighs next to nothing.

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i have some really nice pictures from the lemans. i want to put little copyright logos on them first though. below is a cropped sample. they are about 500k uncropped

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[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

For those who do not know the Panoz GT1. It is a low cost $50K SCCA Spec racer. Yes I do know how to buy a GTSR. My point is that until a spec Viper is available replace the Panoz Ford engine with a Viper engine! That would be a sweet track ride, 2500 pounds/450HP. To buy a Viper and remove the interior etc etc then add a roll cage etc etc is not the best solution for a Viper for track use only. The ACR is not a spec racer but a nice street open track ride. MY $.02

 

[Steve Ferguson]

Fred, we will be presenting this issue shortly to the heads of DC. If all goes well, the VCA may have the ultimate trump card! Maurice will know more when he gets back from the Detroit Show! Keep the faith.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The women's GT has a different engine than the SCCA GT1! The GT1 engine is not reliable, my opinion 2/5 cars die in a NASA sprint event. But it is my understanding that all engines will be replaced by FORD! A few collectors my buy a Viper spec. race car but not many as they could not register it the street use.

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[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Fred:

I doubt that Chrysler would be able to produce a spec car when they are trying to push their own WSC type car with a V8. I feel that if Chrysler really wants to help people race their cars, then they will follow Ford and Chevy's lead and produce a Crate Car like the Vette. The Vette can be purchased in a Crate for less than $20,000.00 now. They are readily available and there are several in the Houston area alone.

 

[luc]

I also drove a Panoz GT1 at Laguna Secca.
Didn't liked it at all.
Not a lot of power for a 351 Windsor, they are rated at 385hp but felt like a lot less. ( may be because I am used to my 650hp 69 race Mustang).
Steering was way too light and even on Michelin slicks, the car was pushing a lot.
Like I said not,at least the one I drove, a good impression.
Also if you want to run SCCA GT1 with it, you will be at the end of the pack if not lapped.
Regarding the comment about going 175 m/h with it,I seriously doubt it,with only 385hp and the car weight and CX, it will be very surprising.
Do you remember what was you RPM's in 5th gear?
I thought that the Women Gt Serie where using a 320hp engine only.
Luc. 2000 GTS.69 Mustang convertible race car (1.41 Laguna,2.03 Thunderhill)

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

summit point west virginia....there usually are 3 panoz gt-1 cars that show up to race on scca weekends...they are never in the top 7...the gt-1 is definately not in the correct class. i was looking at the purchse of 1 to use in ite class. panoz would not allow this. i for one would place a v-10 crate motor in the panoz.

 

[JBenko]

Fred, I'm right behind you buddy, but this is a dead horse. There is no plausible scenario that I can see that has Dodge involved in a spec racer Viper. (Sorry Steve) Frank Parise,I, and others have hashed this out on the old board a number of times. One major problem is that the car ends up too expensive to the point where there would be so few racers willing to purchase that you couldn't have a consistant field of competitors. Another problem is that there is no incentive for Dodge to give up the chassis / parts when they can sell every Viper they make. The next problem is the cost of replacement body parts - ie. $13k hood. Throw in the issue of the lack of a sanctioning body whereby sponsors could be involved and its over...

Don't get me wrong. I would have been first in line for a spec. / purposefully built race car but I just don't think it's gonna ever happen.

A thought - the Panoz is a hell of a lot of car for the $. Recently there have been 2 in Autoweek in the $51-$52k range. It is rumored that Panoz is subsidizing the cars to the tune of losing $20k+ on each one they sell. There is a distinct possibility of either the SCCA homologating the car into its own class or relegating it to GT2. If a guy wanted to go GT racing this is a very serious car to consider.

Finally, if anyone is interested I beleive that Mr. Woodhouse and Mr. Pemberton are setting up a session in January (?) to go drive the Panoz cars at Sebring (I think). Check with them if you are interested.

 

[Supercharged Vipermad]

I think the Feb 2nd Panoz school in Florida is sold out, but I'm really looking forward to it!

I'd love a Dodge Viper spec racer! Integral roll cage, fire suppression, flexible body panels, crate V-10, great suspension (yet to be determined), fuel cell. Take out all the weight possible, (could they get down to the 2300 lbs range?). I think they'd sell a bunch! And if others can get the price down, I'll bet Dodge can too. I guess it comes down to, what's in it for Dodge?

 

[kverges]

Uh, guys & gals:

While most people on this board have Vipers, many of us are not made of money. If you want to race, figure 2-5X the car cost per year to do it. A $55,000 spec car is not exactly what I'd call affordable.

Also, remember that even if YOU can afford it, you need others with the combination of funds, time, love for the marque, and desire to race. While you are at it, you want them to be at your level - if they are too fast or slow in comparison it becomes a parade, not a race. Spec Vipers are in pretty thin air. How many do you figure will be in your area regularly to race?

I am looking more in the Spec Miata area to race. $10,000 to get one with a logbook, plentiful and relatively inexpensive parts, and fields with 10 or more cars at regional races. (Viper Days comes to TX once a year and I do not have a week per race to pull cross country and return from other events). If you want more speed, then Formula Mazda may be more reasonable and it also has large fields.

As for the Ford/Chevy bashing, I don't get it. Both powerplants can be powerful and reliable and I am afraid that I still like the song of a V-8 over the V-10, as much as I love everything else about the Viper. And come to the Texas Triathlon in Feb 2001, you just might get a lesson from a Ford or Chevy!

Oh, if you MUST have a Viper, a SURE bet is the Trans Am series. You folks with the big bucks can go Trans Am racing in a proper, tube-frame, Viper-bodied car. Tommy Archer is. Get a car like his and go GT1 or Trans Am racing in it. This will be a real option for 2001.

For me, my Vipers are fun on track in "driving school" environments, but I just can't afford to race them.

Keith