Possible 2016 Supercharged

SnakeBitten

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AMG does indeed make TQ monsters. The V12 biturbo makes 740 ft/lbs stock mated to their 7g tronic. The V8 biturbos come with 660 ft/lbs stock in the SL63 and S63 models running on the 7-MCT transmission. Many of these have been modded making well over 700 ft/lbs at the wheels with no issues on the stock transmission. Their upcoming 9 speed is rated for 740 ft/lbs on paper. They do sell their transmissions. Porsche used to use their 5 speed in the 996 and 997.1 turbo before switching to the PDK in the 997.2. The only problem is none of these are DCTs. AMG does have a DCT but they admit it can't handle the TQ of the big turbo motors. None of the DCTs like the Porsches PDK, BMW's, or Audi's DCT can handle much over 500 ft/lbs. There are DCTs that can handle more in exotic cars like the Bugatti Veyron's DCT, but the transmission is big, heavy, and costs more than an entire Viper. Until there's a more mainstream DCT that can handle the extra TQ you might be stuck with a regular automatic. Which might not be so bas autos have come a long way. The ZF 8 speed is highly rated for example.

Eliphaz here. Its interesting that you said they sell their transmissions. Im sure Fiat knows this but I wonder if they would go that route for the Vipers sake?
 

SnakeBitten

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Sergio ONCE UPON A TIME cared...until Vipers started sitting around on dealer's lots (possibly the main reason why he pulled Ralph's SRT initiative back).


A Viper paddle shifter does not necessarily have to be a DCT.

Here are some reviews of the 8 speed trans. going into the new Z06:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests...e_stingray_eight_speed_automatic_first_drive/
http://autoweek.com/article/car-news/2015-corvette-stingray-eight-speed-automatic-first-drive
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/20/2015-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review-quick-spin/
http://www.autoguide.com/manufacturer/chevrolet/2015-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-review-4080.html

Thanks for those links. That really sounds like the Chevy Auto will be a serious alternative to a DCT setup. I also heard it is lighter than the DCT boxes. They said the GM 8 speed auto is also smoother than the DCT's. Gotta love technology.
 

MoparMap

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Going back a ways there was the ME412 transmission that was built by Ricardo. That car had 850 hp, but not sure what the torque numbers were. It morphed into the Veyron transmission I hear, though I don't know the legitimacy of that claim. Probably stupid cost too though.
 

Bobpantax

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Uh. Free2go was being his usual sarcastic and humorous self. I thought it was a cute and clever comment.
 

sunsalem

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Thanks for those links. That really sounds like the Chevy Auto will be a serious alternative to a DCT setup. I also heard it is lighter than the DCT boxes. They said the GM 8 speed auto is also smoother than the DCT's. Gotta love technology.
And LIGHT: "The 8L90 weighs about 8 pounds less than the outgoing six-speed automatic thanks to extensive use of magnesium and aluminum."

Here is the most important part of the Autoweek Review:

After driving three high-powered cars with eight-speed, torque-converter automatics (Challenger SRT Hellcat, Jaguar F-Type R and now the Corvette), we can say the newest models are every bit as good as the dual-clutch setups. They can shift as fast, feel smoother and aren’t rough on low-speed launches like many of the performance-oriented DCTs on the market, giving you all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages.

Extensive background from C&D:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-eight-speed-automatic-first-drive-review
And least we forget, the Hellcat is using the same tech in its 8-speed.:nana:
 
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SnakeBitten

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And LIGHT: "The 8L90 weighs about 8 pounds less than the outgoing six-speed automatic thanks to extensive use of magnesium and aluminum."

Here is the most important part of the Autoweek Review:

After driving three high-powered cars with eight-speed, torque-converter automatics (Challenger SRT Hellcat, Jaguar F-Type R and now the Corvette), we can say the newest models are every bit as good as the dual-clutch setups. They can shift as fast, feel smoother and aren’t rough on low-speed launches like many of the performance-oriented DCTs on the market, giving you all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages.

Extensive background from C&D:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-eight-speed-automatic-first-drive-review
And least we forget, the Hellcat is using the same tech in its 8-speed.:nana:

It can't be too long in the future before the Viper gets some sort of auto/dct box that can handle its torque. Hopefully, for those that want a Viper but want/need the auto, this could possibly happen towards the end of the Gen 5's life span but probably more likely in the Gen 6 model.

Now to see how long the new Z06 auto can put up with the abuse on track, strip and street. The Viper has always been dead reliable for the most part in those conditions and I dont think Dodge will add any auto/dct box to it until one has proven to be dead reliable.
 

sunsalem

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It can't be too long in the future before the Viper gets some sort of auto/dct box that can handle its torque. Hopefully, for those that want a Viper but want/need the auto, this could possibly happen towards the end of the Gen 5's life span but probably more likely in the Gen 6 model.
Agreed.
IF the Snake continues, it will have to do something along those lines.


Now to see how long the new Z06 auto can put up with the abuse on track, strip and street. The Viper has always been dead reliable for the most part in those conditions and I dont think Dodge will add any auto/dct box to it until one has proven to be dead reliable.
IIRC, the Hellcat has 650 lbs. being put thru its auto.
I doubt that it wasn't tested extensively for reliability.
 

SnakeBitten

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Yes but is the Hellcats ****** compatible with the Viper platform? If not then they have buy/build one that can fit the Vipers layout hence my comment above about testing and why we may not see one in the Viper before G6.
 

sunsalem

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Yes but is the Hellcats ****** compatible with the Viper platform?
With the current V10, probably not.
The architecture is likely to be mismatched.

However, the G1 Jeep GC SRT (which I owned) had an AMG auto because Chrysler didn't have an off-the-shelf trans. that could handle the Hemi.
Maybe some help from Ferrari here....


If not then they have buy/build one that can fit the Vipers layout hence my comment above about testing and why we may not see one in the Viper before G6.
Could very well be....which is why I would love to see a hiatus to clear out inventory and do a redesign with a proper vert. and auto trans and call it G6.
 

MoparMap

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With the current V10, probably not.
The architecture is likely to be mismatched.

However, the G1 Jeep GC SRT (which I owned) had an AMG auto because Chrysler didn't have an off-the-shelf trans. that could handle the Hemi.
Maybe some help from Ferrari here....

Were Chrysler and Mercedes still in bed with each other back during the original Jeep SRT? Wondering if it was an "in-house" deal so to speak or whether it was just the only thing out there that would hold up behind the torque. I know Mercedes transmissions have been put in many other cars over the years like my old XKR and I think Range Rovers and a few others used them as well.
 

SnakeBitten

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With the current V10, probably not.
The architecture is likely to be mismatched.

However, the G1 Jeep GC SRT (which I owned) had an AMG auto because Chrysler didn't have an off-the-shelf trans. that could handle the Hemi.
Maybe some help from Ferrari here....


Could very well be....which is why I would love to see a hiatus to clear out inventory and do a redesign with a proper vert. and auto trans and call it G6.

Yes it would be nice to see that inventory on lots sell-off so the focus can fully shift to verts, auto's, SC's or whatever they have planned for the snake.
 

sunsalem

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Yes it would be nice to see that inventory on lots sell-off so the focus can fully shift to verts, auto's, SC's or whatever they have planned for the snake.
After the disastrous first MT showdown at LS between the G5 and the ZR1 (the responsibility for which rests squarely on SRT's shoulders), the image of the current gen. Viper as a "fail" in some media needs to be changed...and the quicker the better.
These kinds of things can take on a life of their own in the mind of the public.
This is NOT what a "halo car" is supposed to do for Chrysler.
That's the Bad News.

The GOOD NEWS is this situation is entirely reversible.
Our Snake is one of the most beautiful Supercars on the planet.
It is also one of the fastest and a true Legend.

A vert. and an auto is a must for the Snake or the car will be viewed as a dinosaur and become irrelevant.
Perhaps a SC or a hybrid (as rumored) is a possibility.
Or redefine the Viper as a rolling showcase in terms of styling and tech?
I dunno...

I hope Fiat is brainstorming with SRT to come up with something new and exciting for the brand.
Fortunately, Chrysler's parent company has a LOT of assets in can use to put America's most jaw-dropping Supercar back where it belongs: AT THE TOP.:)
 

SnakeBitten

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After the disastrous first MT showdown at LS between the G5 and the ZR1 (the responsibility for which rests squarely on SRT's shoulders), the image of the current gen. Viper as a "fail" in some media needs to be changed...and the quicker the better.
These kinds of things can take on a life of their own in the mind of the public.
This is NOT what a "halo car" is supposed to do for Chrysler.
That's the Bad News.

The GOOD NEWS is this situation is entirely reversible.
Our Snake is one of the most beautiful Supercars on the planet.
It is also one of the fastest and a true Legend.

A vert. and an auto is a must for the Snake or the car will be viewed as a dinosaur and become irrelevant.
Perhaps a SC or a hybrid (as rumored) is a possibility.
Or redefine the Viper as a rolling showcase in terms of styling and tech?
I dunno...

I hope Fiat is brainstorming with SRT to come up with something new and exciting for the brand.
Fortunately, Chrysler's parent company has a LOT of assets in can use to put America's most jaw-dropping Supercar back where it belongs: AT THE TOP.:)

I concur mon ami.
 

Mopar488

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If someone were to want to order a Viper today , would it be a 2014 or a 2015? I do realize there is every color and combination sitting on a lot somewhere in either a 2013 or 2014. As far as I know you cannot order a 2015.
 

Lawrenzo

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I do realize there is every color and combination sitting on a lot somewhere in either a 2013 or 2014.
Good luck with that. The longer you wait the less likely you will be able to find what you want. That's why I jumped on my blue/silver when it popped on the market.
 

JohnnyBravo

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IF they actually come out with a blown V-10 and IF they make it something that can be retrofit to the 2013-2014, I think you'll see the rest of the Gen V inventory dry up in a hurry.

If I could pick up a 2013 with low miles for $80k, throw the carbon fiber bits on for $5k, and add a blower for $10k, THAT would be a true supercar for under $100k. Unique, low production numbers, gorgeous and should destroy a Z06/Z07 in a straight line and on the track, even with the manual transmission. That might be enough for me to part with my blown GTS.
 

DMan

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IF they actually come out with a blown V-10 and IF they make it something that can be retrofit to the 2013-2014, I think you'll see the rest of the Gen V inventory dry up in a hurry.

If I could pick up a 2013 with low miles for $80k, throw the carbon fiber bits on for $5k, and add a blower for $10k, THAT would be a true supercar for under $100k. Unique, low production numbers, gorgeous and should destroy a Z06/Z07 in a straight line and on the track, even with the manual transmission. That might be enough for me to part with my blown GTS.

Agreed, this would make me switch from my gen4 and not think about any other option, even without a vert.
 

sunsalem

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Agreed, this would make me switch from my gen4 and not think about any other option, even without a vert.
It means Dealers would be doing the install, and that would be problematic....at best.
 

sunsalem

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I really hope this SC thing goes thru, at least in some fashion.

How would it be done?
I haven't a clue....it's up to SRT at this point.

I looked at some Vette Forums where there are predictions of mid 10s with the auto trans for the Z06, and that **** CANNOT stand!:aargh:
 

Nsane1

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As always you are right on point. What would this cost? I was discussing this with some Viper peeps this weekend. If they did this, and left the price alone (~120k) that would justify the higher (~50k) price of the Viper vs Vette.

They are in a bind, they can't really reduce the price officially (MSRP) as they would look really silly as the only thing that has changed is sales and the vette, so this allows a win for everyone.

Rumors are fun, let's hope we can generate enough buzz to get this one to turn true... Let's play the other card, what if Dodge does nothing?? Do you think they would just give up against the Vette? Dodge makes the coolest cars out there, edgy, in your face, everything that Viper stands for, while sales ****, I just see it as un-Dodge-like to just say "you win GM"... Anyway, I hope anyway...
 

Bobpantax

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I heard that President Obama is adopting the UN environmental guidelines by Executive Order and that a footnote in it bans the Vette.
I also heard that the new Z Vette is not for sale yet so the keyboard racers might as well be playing a video game.

It will be fun to read about all the crying and complaining and rationalizing when both Hellcat variants hit the streets. The Chevy and Ford guys will not know whther to s**t or go blind. And the four door Charger with an 11 second quarter out of the box on stock tires should really ruffle a few snobby feathers among the four door performance Eurosedan crowd. I love it.

In the meantime, the Gen V is clearly a far superior design to the Vette. In fact the Vette design, at least to me, is already stale. It is too edgy and the front and back conflict with each other. It's too complicated.

I really hope this SC thing goes thru, at least in some fashion.

How would it be done?
I haven't a clue....it's up to SRT at this point.

I looked at some Vette Forums where there are predictions of mid 10s with the auto trans for the Z06, and that **** CANNOT stand!:aargh:
 

DMan

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I heard that President Obama is adopting the UN environmental guidelines by Executive Order and that a footnote in it bans the Vette.
I also heard that the new Z Vette is not for sale yet so the keyboard racers might as well be playing a video game.

It will be fun to read about all the crying and complaining and rationalizing when both Hellcat variants hit the streets. The Chevy and Ford guys will not know whther to s**t or go blind. And the four door Charger with an 11 second quarter out of the box on stock tires should really ruffle a few snobby feathers among the four door performance Eurosedan crowd. I love it.

In the meantime, the Gen V is clearly a far superior design to the Vette. In fact the Vette design, at least to me, is already stale. It is too edgy and the front and back conflict with each other. It's too complicated.

Don't worry Bob, the snobbery won't end. I loved the mag comparo of the Mustang GT (just a 5.0 GT) vs the BMW M3, the mustang won every perf test over the M3, at a fraction of the cost, the result was the BMW took first place and the Mustang 2nd. Why? They literally said, because at the end of the day the Mustang is still just a Mustang & the M3 is a BMW.

There may be the joy of putting euro exotics etc in the rearview, but the snobbery IMO is a ways from being broken. I've had 7 BMWs, 4 were Ms, and once I got my CTS V I said ba-buy BMW. Don't have the V anymore, but it'll take a lot in the world of cars to break these snob thoughts.

As for Ford, they're cooking their steroids as we speak, so it'll get interesting, this is a win-win game for us. Good times, good times. Um, but the viper, we'll see.
 

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