Ralph at MidOhio in his GTS playin with a GT3

Boxer12

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TRACKDAY

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Awesome video and great driving by Ralph :headbang:

It's amazing how much faster Ralph and the Viper were once he cleared the GT3 (which is an amazing track car in its' own right).

Ralph is a true racer and a **** of a driver. Don't forget, he previously ran in the Viper Cup Series with Keating and LP Montour.

He certainly knows how to push a Viper to the limit better than most folks.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Love that track and Ralph definitely knows the correct line around Mid Ohio - he ran away from the GT3 because he was placing the Snake at the right spots on this fast , fun and technical track. Not uncommon to get into Porsche Track Events around our area ( I am actually a Porsche DE Instructor ) , so Ralph could have just signed up or been invited by the sponsoring Porsche Club. It is always fun to go to their events , because, without fail , some driver is totally shocked at how fast a Viper is compared to the top dog Porsches. I am sure Ralph educated quite a few after his track foray, and he ran really salty in many of the events he entered in the Viper Cup - he and his co-driver even won the Celebrity Viper Cup Event run at Miller Motorsport Park about 3 years ago ( that was against Pros like the Busch brothers, Sam Hubinette and others )
 

Gregnice

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Fantastic! I believe he has the Venom Controller in that car right?
 

3whitevipers

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Nice to know the Viper can do that even if I'm not capable to drive like that. For me it's cool to know that I'm driving the fastest production car there is--even if I cannot tap all the Viper's potential.--Dave
 

Jack B

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.Bill

That is the NE Ohio Porsche club, they are a great group of people and they open their events to all. We have been autox'ing with them for over ten years. What is interesting about the video, is how much Ralph out-brakes the Porsche.



Love that track and Ralph definitely knows the correct line around Mid Ohio - he ran away from the GT3 because he was placing the Snake at the right spots on this fast , fun and technical track. Not uncommon to get into Porsche Track Events around our area ( I am actually a Porsche DE Instructor ) , so Ralph could have just signed up or been invited by the sponsoring Porsche Club. It is always fun to go to their events , because, without fail , some driver is totally shocked at how fast a Viper is compared to the top dog Porsches. I am sure Ralph educated quite a few after his track foray, and he ran really salty in many of the events he entered in the Viper Cup - he and his co-driver even won the Celebrity Viper Cup Event run at Miller Motorsport Park about 3 years ago ( that was against Pros like the Busch brothers, Sam Hubinette and others )
 

Boxer12

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One thing noted by Ralph is that he was running Pirelli World Challenge slicks, and the GT3 was on Hoosier R7's, so its not really that fair to compare the two cars in a way, but looks like a great time for sure.
 

Jack B

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Please explain
One thing noted by Ralph is that he was running Pirelli World Challenge slicks, and the GT3 was on Hoosier R7's, so its not really that fair to compare the two cars in a way, but looks like a great time for sure.
 

Boxer12

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Hoosier R7 is a DOT slick, about 2 sec a lap slower than a WC full race slick and more grip for braking. Cars need to be on comparable tires for a clear comparison.
 

orlanderlv

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Hoosier R7 is a DOT slick, about 2 sec a lap slower than a WC full race slick and more grip for braking. Cars need to be on comparable tires for a clear comparison.

Based on what I saw, the Viper was well on pace for 2 seconds + advantage per lap. Just sayin.
 

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I'm still in shock the guy in the (Honda?) took the shortcut through the pit exit to pass the other one that looked just like it. He/She should've been booted from the track for that.

At a track like Mid-Ohio, Pirelli slicks will likely be more than 2 seconds faster than R7's. It really is tough to make a legitimate comparison in this case. There is a massive tire advantage. Pirelli slicks are plain nasty.
 

Jack B

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You say the R7 is a DOT tire, aren't they marked "comp only". Why buy the R7 at all?. I believe most think the R6 or new R7 is a full race slick
Hoosier R7 is a DOT slick, about 2 sec a lap slower than a WC full race slick and more grip for braking. Cars need to be on comparable tires for a clear comparison.
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Sorry, give Ralph his due as the WC Pirelli Slick is more of an endurance tire, just like the Continental slicks run in the United Sportscar Challenge ( Continental Series/IMSA) . I run them on another one of my cars and I am not sure they are even any quicker than the R7. Heck the Continental slick is essentially a R6/R7 with a bit more of an Endurance compound and no lines in it. NASA even classes these two slicks in the same category as a R6 or R7 for figuring car classification. I would politely disagree that the Pirelli is two seconds faster as I run similar times on either- bit faster on the Pirellis. I know a set of Michelin slicks will run about 2 seconds faster than the R6s on my Snake, and a set of Hoosier slicks is in the same league. So running Pirelli WC slicks are likely marginally quicker, but knowing the line at Mid Ohio, it was evident Ralph had a much better line than the Porsche.........and keep in mind Pirelli slicks only go up to 325 in the rear( quite a bit less than the 355s that come standard and even a Hoosier R7 has a 345 )
 
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Boxer12

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Bill, not sure what class you are running but in TT1 (my ACR)-3 any non-DOT slick is a .7 (7%) point deduction. In fact, its the most significant modification factor. I would say its the construction of the tires more than the compound that makes a difference, and you need to set the suspension up to take advantage of the slicks. You can get more lateral grip with the slick. That being said, I don't mean to take anything away from Ralph's driving. I think he recognized the difference in tires or he wouldn't have mentioned it in his notes on the video. As for the driving line, the NASA TT record with the chicane is 1:31.380. Neither of these drivers was even close to that time. Of course, its a DE event with traffic on most of the laps so its hard to get a rhythm and get that magic lap. I didn't even mention lap times, but my point is just that its hard to compare cars heads up with different tires unless you also take HP/Wt into consideration and you have to handicap the car with racing slicks to be fair. Take a look at the number of lap records that have been set on Pirelli slicks (versus on Michelins or Hoosiers): http://narraonline.com/event-results/track-records Again, not taking anything away from Ralph's driving or the Viper's superiority to the GT3. I find this video most interesting because a GT3 (if the GT3 was driven poorly, then the case is even stronger) can once again run in the same 'league' as the Viper. I recall the days when I used to battle with GT3's in my (G2) GTS, and it was great fun. I don't think I've had a GT3 run even close to me in the ACR, so its a shift. Just my 2c.
 
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Stealth

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The Gen V ACR is the comparision to the 991 GT3. Let's see how that works out for the ~ $170k Porsche! (GT3 well equipped; RS even more).
 

Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Please reread you post and it comes off almost with an inference to defend the Porsche driver and comment that , yeh, Ralph was faster , but he is on Pirellis. Thanks for clearing that up, but I do still disagree there is a 2 second gap, since I am running both tires , and I will concede there could be a second or so. The key is Pirelli only has a 325 rear available and that is somewhat of a disadvantage ( especially over a Michelin or Hoosier slick). Do agree it is a great tire, part of the reason I am running them ( they seem to last longer than the Hoosiers) , but the main comment Ralph is making that he was on Pirellis was likely to make note that it is a great track tire and the brand Viper is using now. You have obviously run Mid Ohio as I have , and the line the Porsche driver was on was not as strong as where Ralph was placing the Viper. My personal opinion is that had a lot more impact than tires or car --- and do agree about the GT3 and ACRs ( can't remember any Porsche outrunning or outbraking me in the Viper for years ) .
 

Boxer12

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Yes, Mid Ohio was one of my 'home' tracks and I have probably logged over ten thousand miles on it. Generally, you always want to hit the apexes and use all the track, like any track. There are a few corners where a Viper tends to push badly and that needs to be compensated for but not so in a Porsche, so the lines are different in some corners. I could break down each video corner by corner but don't have the time. LOL. I drove a 911 for 13 years before getting into Vipers, and have a TTS now. They are totally different animals and hard to compare in braking points, acceleration points and cornering. For a DE, I enjoyed these videos. You can tell the guys were having a bit of competition. I am just saying because the GT3 wasn't running full slicks and if it had better tires and a better driver, it might be a closer contest. I don't really know because there are too many variables here. I really don't mean to 'defend' or 'downgrade' anyone's driving. Its just a fun video of two guys sparring on the track in current 'top shelf' track hardware. ;)
 

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Pirelli's are well faster than R6 without a doubt. The Continental slicks did not have the NASA Non DOT penalty even though they have no grooves because they are slow. Hoosier slicks are widely considered the slowest non DOT full slick. Pirelli's are phenomenal and NASA will absolutely penalize you if you run them. The DH are endurance, but pretty much just as fast as the softs, they just don't come up to temp as fast. I would suggest, if one is having issue maximizing the grip of the Pirelli's try a different setup than the R6's and check to make sure your tire pressures are in the correct range. 30-33.

BTW, Mid-O can make any car push with all of those off camber turns. It's brutal.
 
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Bill Pemberton Woodhouse

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Heh, I love the Pirellis!! Regardless, I was simply saying I did not see a 2 second gap running on the Pirelli Endurance compound over the Hoosiers and was simply stating give Ralph his due -- the dude is fast. I prefer the Pirelli , myself, and we all are in agreement they are fantastic slicks. I frankly was inferring more that Ralph's talent was more of the reason for him pulling away than the two different tires --- agree the Pirelli is quicker even though an Endurance compound, and one of their softer compounds would **** a Hoosier, but not seeing a 2 second gap running on my car as that is ( using the rule of thumb ) a 20 car length gap per lap on a 2 mile course.
 
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991 GT3s are awesome. They are fast, and effortless on the track. The sound of the motor is amazing too.
 

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