Replacing the coolant with water and Water Wetter
- Thread starter Iceman
- Start date
FROM Ron's GREAT poston coolant change for Gen II:
" More info than you wanted I'm sure...
Viper GENII Coolant Change Procedure:
Viper coolant changes should be scheduled according to the Dodge recommended intervals, 36 months from date of manufacture and then every 24 months thereafter. Time is more on an issue here than mileage as vital anti-corrosion additives are being depleted constantly.
The process begins by safely raising the car about 17” or so. (Note: If you can, it’ll help to have the front on the car higher than the back during the “burping” session, so consider that as you plan your lift. You will need this clearance in order to open both the radiator petcock and the 2 block drain plugs, both of which are required to be removed for a complete draining.)
Make sure the heater temperature knob is in the “hot” position. This will allow coolant to drain from the heater core. Next, make sure the engine is cold and the system in unpressurized. If you can hold your hand on the block without discomfort and if you can squeeze the upper radiator hose completely, you should be OK. As an added precaution, prior to removing the coolant cap on the expansion tank, (passenger side of the engine compartment, See photo), place a rag over the cap, look away and twist the cap counterclockwise until you feel it click. This is the pressure release position. Push down, continue turning to remove.
Antifreeze is extremely poisonous! DO NOT siphon, let drain on the driveway or allow any animals to be exposed to it. Apparently it has a sweet taste that dogs love, but it will kill them if they drink it. Drain the radiator coolant into a bucket, pour into a closed container, and keep away from children. Plan to quickly and safely dispose at a local recycling center.
The service manual discusses a radiator petcock or valve, but in my case there was only an Allen keyed plug in the drivers side lower back of the radiator. The Allen key size is ¼ inch and note that caution must be taken as the surrounding metal is quite thin and will bend easily if you do not maintain straight even leverage on the plug. Allow the used coolant to drain completely into your bucket.
Once complete, you will need to drain each side of the block. There is one plug on each side, accessed underneath the engine, about the middle of the block, facing down. (See photo) They are female square sockets, perhaps 5/16” or 8mm, and are a plumbing style fitting. Unfortunately it’s difficult to find the correct size tool to remove, so I used a short 3/8 inch extension and ground down the four sides till it fit, approximately .320” square. You’ll find them tight and glued in, so it took a bit of snap to get them to loosen. If you are not changing the type of antifreeze, (say from green to extended life orange) and if you’re changing the coolant fairly consistent with factory recommendations, it probably isn’t ultra critical to drain the block, especially if you’re uncomfortable with the amount of torque that you’ll have to apply.
Once the block and radiator are completely drained, it’s time to drain and flush both the expansion tank and the coolant overflow bottle, which is located behind the passenger side front fascia (See photo). If you look in from your passenger side wheel well, you will see a 5 inch or so diameter rubber plug which is used to access the fog light. By removing that plug and inserting a bright light, you can see the level of the overflow through a slit in the wheel well. This is the tank that needs to be drained and flushed.
I used a $2.00 fish tank squeeze bulb siphon. The size of the tubing is a good fit and the correct hose is accessed at the neck of the expansion tank (See photo). Squeeze the bulb to create the vacuum / siphon, and let drain completely. Then, with a funnel, refill the overflow tank with clean water and repeat until drain water becomes clear. Leave empty at this time.
This procedure assumes that your system is relatively clean, but that you’d like to do a clean water flush to get out any minor impurities that remain, plus any trapped old coolant. If so, close up both the block and radiator plugs, remove the thermostat air bleed plug (see photo) with a 3/16” sized square plug wrench (purchased or made by grinding down a 1/4" extension) and slowly refill with distilled water. Again, you’ll find this plug very tight and glued. If you can find the right wrench and are comfortable with the amount of torque required to break it free, go for it. If on the other hand, you fear stripping the plug, (as some have) don’t open it. It’ll require removing the intake manifold and thermostat housing to repair it. Be cautious.
Slowly fill the expansion tank with distilled water which is available at any grocery store. Though you will drain it out again, it’s cheap and better for your engine than mineral laden tap water. Once you get water out of the opened thermostat bleeder, close it up and continue filling slowly until full. Avoid getting the serpentine belt wet, especially with antifreeze. If you do get antifreeze on it, flush with clean water.
Leave the expansion tank cap off at this point. Check and assure that the car is stable and safe with no one underneath (sorry for stating the obvious) firm parking brake and in neutral, then start the engine. Immediately add more water as the engine pulls in the fluid. Once filled, move over to the driver’s side and CAREFULLY squeeze the upper radiator hose to push the air in the hose into the radiator. No loose sleeves or clothing that could get caught in the belt. You should see the expansion tank gurgle as you do this, which give you the indication that you are burping correctly. After a while, you will notice the water naturally expanding out of the expansion tank, at that point, replace the cap in order to allow pressure to build. Once you feel the upper hose warming, you know the thermostat has opened and flow is occurring.
Note: If you did not open the thermostat bleeder to purge the air in the top of the block, you will notice a rapidly increasing engine temp as the water in the block heats beyond 195 degrees. This occurs because the thermostat is not submerged in the coolant and isn’t opening as quickly as it would if it was. Run the heater on full fan and max temp to give the engine a bit of cooling and soon the thermostat should open. If it doesn’t, shut the engine down before it gets too hot (watch the dash temp gauge) and let the heat soak open the thermostat. When it does, the temp will quickly diminish and the trapped air will purge into the expansion tank. Not a pleasant experience to witness, but unavoidable if you don’t open the bleeder plug as described above.
Again squeeze the hose to purge as much air out of the system as possible. At this stage, it is not critical to remove all of the air or shift the height of the car to maximize the purging. Our goal here is just to allow the water to flow and to flush any remaining old antifreeze from the system. After a few minutes of full coolant flow, (indicated by a warm upper radiator hose) you should shut down the engine and let it cool completely. This will take several hours so be prepared.
You could avoid the flushing step to save time and I feel it would be prudent to do so if you have not gone well beyond the recommended change intervals and if you’re replacing the coolant with the same type, i.e. the green stuff. If you are considerably beyond 36 months if it is the first change or well beyond 24 months otherwise, then the flush is a good idea. On the other hand you are changing to another type of coolant, such as Dexcool; (Orange) you should flush multiple times in order to maximize the benefit of the new coolant type. Being careful of course to allow a full cool down each time. This is not only for your safety, but also to prevent any massive temperature changes that could damage your engine. Lastly, if the coolant is so old that corrosion has occurred, I would strongly recommend a professional power flush rather than store bought caustic flushes.
Once the engine has cooled down you can drain everything again, same procedure as before. Once everything is drained, use a bit of Teflon tape or other anti-seize compound and tighten the plugs appropriately. Dodge does not publish (at least not that I can find) torque numbers for the drain plugs, so use common sense and don’t over tighten, just seal the system.
The capacity of the Viper cooling system (GEN II) is 12.8 quarts. (Check your manual to confirm your year). Given that and the recommended 50:50 mix ratio, I’d suggest (Method A) pouring in 6.4 quarts of your selected 100% antifreeze into the expansion tank first, and then continue filling with distilled water. This will result in the proper amount of antifreeze in your engine, but only if at least one flush was performed. Why, because any remaining pockets of liquid in the system are water, because of the flush. However, if you did not flush with water, then I would suggest (Method B) premixing one gallon of antifreeze with one gallon of distilled water at a time, then using that mix for your fill. Logic here is that somewhere within the system, pockets of old coolant lurk. If you use Method A, you could overcharge the mix. Again, you should have removed the thermostat bleed plug, filled until the coolant is at top of bleeder, replace bleeder carefully (with Teflon tape or antiseize) and continue filling.
Once you have the system filled, it’s time to burp again. This time, ONLY IF YOU CAN DO IT SAFELY, lower the rear of the car, so the radiator is as high as practical. You can also lower the driver’s side a bit as you want the air to move to the expansion tank and the higher the tank is relative to the cooling system, the easier it will be to purge. Again, firm parking brake, transmission in neutral, start the car and quickly add coolant as the engine pulls it in. Then carefully squeeze upper radiator hose to squeeze air towards radiator, replace expansion tank cap, continue squeezing and once upper hose is warm, shut down engine.
You can now lower the car. Next step is to refill the overflow bottle. Using the same hose you used to drain it, use a funnel and light in the fascia to verify level, refill the bottle using premixed antifreeze : distilled water at the 50:50 ratio until at proper level. Once filled, replace the fog light access plug and the hose onto the expansion tank.
The next few hours of driving will naturally purge any remain air in the system. I would occasionally turn on the heater to full to help purge that system and also keep my eye on the overfull bottle level as it will lower as the air is purged. After a few run cycles, the level should stabilize and mission considered complete.
*** THESE INSTRUCTIONS ASSUME THAT YOU ARE FAMILAR WITH WORKING ON CARS, ARE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT SAFE JACKING PROCEDURES, THE USE OF AUTOMOTIVE TOOLS AND PROCEDURES.
DO NOT PERFORM ANY PROCEDURE YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH OR FEEL INSUFFCIENTLY INFORMED. YOUR LOCAL VIPER TECH IS A RESOURCE THAT YOU SHOULD UTILIZE IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF A PROCEDURE OR EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTY. *** "
" More info than you wanted I'm sure...
Viper GENII Coolant Change Procedure:
Viper coolant changes should be scheduled according to the Dodge recommended intervals, 36 months from date of manufacture and then every 24 months thereafter. Time is more on an issue here than mileage as vital anti-corrosion additives are being depleted constantly.
The process begins by safely raising the car about 17” or so. (Note: If you can, it’ll help to have the front on the car higher than the back during the “burping” session, so consider that as you plan your lift. You will need this clearance in order to open both the radiator petcock and the 2 block drain plugs, both of which are required to be removed for a complete draining.)
Make sure the heater temperature knob is in the “hot” position. This will allow coolant to drain from the heater core. Next, make sure the engine is cold and the system in unpressurized. If you can hold your hand on the block without discomfort and if you can squeeze the upper radiator hose completely, you should be OK. As an added precaution, prior to removing the coolant cap on the expansion tank, (passenger side of the engine compartment, See photo), place a rag over the cap, look away and twist the cap counterclockwise until you feel it click. This is the pressure release position. Push down, continue turning to remove.
Antifreeze is extremely poisonous! DO NOT siphon, let drain on the driveway or allow any animals to be exposed to it. Apparently it has a sweet taste that dogs love, but it will kill them if they drink it. Drain the radiator coolant into a bucket, pour into a closed container, and keep away from children. Plan to quickly and safely dispose at a local recycling center.
The service manual discusses a radiator petcock or valve, but in my case there was only an Allen keyed plug in the drivers side lower back of the radiator. The Allen key size is ¼ inch and note that caution must be taken as the surrounding metal is quite thin and will bend easily if you do not maintain straight even leverage on the plug. Allow the used coolant to drain completely into your bucket.
Once complete, you will need to drain each side of the block. There is one plug on each side, accessed underneath the engine, about the middle of the block, facing down. (See photo) They are female square sockets, perhaps 5/16” or 8mm, and are a plumbing style fitting. Unfortunately it’s difficult to find the correct size tool to remove, so I used a short 3/8 inch extension and ground down the four sides till it fit, approximately .320” square. You’ll find them tight and glued in, so it took a bit of snap to get them to loosen. If you are not changing the type of antifreeze, (say from green to extended life orange) and if you’re changing the coolant fairly consistent with factory recommendations, it probably isn’t ultra critical to drain the block, especially if you’re uncomfortable with the amount of torque that you’ll have to apply.
Once the block and radiator are completely drained, it’s time to drain and flush both the expansion tank and the coolant overflow bottle, which is located behind the passenger side front fascia (See photo). If you look in from your passenger side wheel well, you will see a 5 inch or so diameter rubber plug which is used to access the fog light. By removing that plug and inserting a bright light, you can see the level of the overflow through a slit in the wheel well. This is the tank that needs to be drained and flushed.
I used a $2.00 fish tank squeeze bulb siphon. The size of the tubing is a good fit and the correct hose is accessed at the neck of the expansion tank (See photo). Squeeze the bulb to create the vacuum / siphon, and let drain completely. Then, with a funnel, refill the overflow tank with clean water and repeat until drain water becomes clear. Leave empty at this time.
This procedure assumes that your system is relatively clean, but that you’d like to do a clean water flush to get out any minor impurities that remain, plus any trapped old coolant. If so, close up both the block and radiator plugs, remove the thermostat air bleed plug (see photo) with a 3/16” sized square plug wrench (purchased or made by grinding down a 1/4" extension) and slowly refill with distilled water. Again, you’ll find this plug very tight and glued. If you can find the right wrench and are comfortable with the amount of torque required to break it free, go for it. If on the other hand, you fear stripping the plug, (as some have) don’t open it. It’ll require removing the intake manifold and thermostat housing to repair it. Be cautious.
Slowly fill the expansion tank with distilled water which is available at any grocery store. Though you will drain it out again, it’s cheap and better for your engine than mineral laden tap water. Once you get water out of the opened thermostat bleeder, close it up and continue filling slowly until full. Avoid getting the serpentine belt wet, especially with antifreeze. If you do get antifreeze on it, flush with clean water.
Leave the expansion tank cap off at this point. Check and assure that the car is stable and safe with no one underneath (sorry for stating the obvious) firm parking brake and in neutral, then start the engine. Immediately add more water as the engine pulls in the fluid. Once filled, move over to the driver’s side and CAREFULLY squeeze the upper radiator hose to push the air in the hose into the radiator. No loose sleeves or clothing that could get caught in the belt. You should see the expansion tank gurgle as you do this, which give you the indication that you are burping correctly. After a while, you will notice the water naturally expanding out of the expansion tank, at that point, replace the cap in order to allow pressure to build. Once you feel the upper hose warming, you know the thermostat has opened and flow is occurring.
Note: If you did not open the thermostat bleeder to purge the air in the top of the block, you will notice a rapidly increasing engine temp as the water in the block heats beyond 195 degrees. This occurs because the thermostat is not submerged in the coolant and isn’t opening as quickly as it would if it was. Run the heater on full fan and max temp to give the engine a bit of cooling and soon the thermostat should open. If it doesn’t, shut the engine down before it gets too hot (watch the dash temp gauge) and let the heat soak open the thermostat. When it does, the temp will quickly diminish and the trapped air will purge into the expansion tank. Not a pleasant experience to witness, but unavoidable if you don’t open the bleeder plug as described above.
Again squeeze the hose to purge as much air out of the system as possible. At this stage, it is not critical to remove all of the air or shift the height of the car to maximize the purging. Our goal here is just to allow the water to flow and to flush any remaining old antifreeze from the system. After a few minutes of full coolant flow, (indicated by a warm upper radiator hose) you should shut down the engine and let it cool completely. This will take several hours so be prepared.
You could avoid the flushing step to save time and I feel it would be prudent to do so if you have not gone well beyond the recommended change intervals and if you’re replacing the coolant with the same type, i.e. the green stuff. If you are considerably beyond 36 months if it is the first change or well beyond 24 months otherwise, then the flush is a good idea. On the other hand you are changing to another type of coolant, such as Dexcool; (Orange) you should flush multiple times in order to maximize the benefit of the new coolant type. Being careful of course to allow a full cool down each time. This is not only for your safety, but also to prevent any massive temperature changes that could damage your engine. Lastly, if the coolant is so old that corrosion has occurred, I would strongly recommend a professional power flush rather than store bought caustic flushes.
Once the engine has cooled down you can drain everything again, same procedure as before. Once everything is drained, use a bit of Teflon tape or other anti-seize compound and tighten the plugs appropriately. Dodge does not publish (at least not that I can find) torque numbers for the drain plugs, so use common sense and don’t over tighten, just seal the system.
The capacity of the Viper cooling system (GEN II) is 12.8 quarts. (Check your manual to confirm your year). Given that and the recommended 50:50 mix ratio, I’d suggest (Method A) pouring in 6.4 quarts of your selected 100% antifreeze into the expansion tank first, and then continue filling with distilled water. This will result in the proper amount of antifreeze in your engine, but only if at least one flush was performed. Why, because any remaining pockets of liquid in the system are water, because of the flush. However, if you did not flush with water, then I would suggest (Method B) premixing one gallon of antifreeze with one gallon of distilled water at a time, then using that mix for your fill. Logic here is that somewhere within the system, pockets of old coolant lurk. If you use Method A, you could overcharge the mix. Again, you should have removed the thermostat bleed plug, filled until the coolant is at top of bleeder, replace bleeder carefully (with Teflon tape or antiseize) and continue filling.
Once you have the system filled, it’s time to burp again. This time, ONLY IF YOU CAN DO IT SAFELY, lower the rear of the car, so the radiator is as high as practical. You can also lower the driver’s side a bit as you want the air to move to the expansion tank and the higher the tank is relative to the cooling system, the easier it will be to purge. Again, firm parking brake, transmission in neutral, start the car and quickly add coolant as the engine pulls it in. Then carefully squeeze upper radiator hose to squeeze air towards radiator, replace expansion tank cap, continue squeezing and once upper hose is warm, shut down engine.
You can now lower the car. Next step is to refill the overflow bottle. Using the same hose you used to drain it, use a funnel and light in the fascia to verify level, refill the bottle using premixed antifreeze : distilled water at the 50:50 ratio until at proper level. Once filled, replace the fog light access plug and the hose onto the expansion tank.
The next few hours of driving will naturally purge any remain air in the system. I would occasionally turn on the heater to full to help purge that system and also keep my eye on the overfull bottle level as it will lower as the air is purged. After a few run cycles, the level should stabilize and mission considered complete.
*** THESE INSTRUCTIONS ASSUME THAT YOU ARE FAMILAR WITH WORKING ON CARS, ARE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT SAFE JACKING PROCEDURES, THE USE OF AUTOMOTIVE TOOLS AND PROCEDURES.
DO NOT PERFORM ANY PROCEDURE YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH OR FEEL INSUFFCIENTLY INFORMED. YOUR LOCAL VIPER TECH IS A RESOURCE THAT YOU SHOULD UTILIZE IF YOU ARE UNSURE OF A PROCEDURE OR EXPERIENCE DIFFICULTY. *** "
Danny Ocean
Enthusiast
Be certain the Watter Wetter has "corrosion inhibitors", or add a supplement that does. Even though you use distilled water, corrosion/gunk will still occur. Anti-freeze has these inhibitors.
D. Ocean
Miami, FLA
D. Ocean
Miami, FLA
Simms
Enthusiast
I learned a neat trick from the Wizard. Most theromostat bleader plugs are hard to remove and sometimes you can damage the plug. So, while filling up with coolant, remove the heater core hose instead. Air will be pushed out of there while filling.
The whole purpose of Watter Wetter is to prevent corrosion and they carry it pretty much in all the stores. Are you really saying that it does not work at all. How did they become so popular?
Do you know of any place that sells the Zerex stuff?
Do you know of any place that sells the Zerex stuff?
joe117
Enthusiast
Why would you want to not use coolant?
It contains anti corrosion protection.
It has a higher boiling point than water, there are places inside the heads where boiling might happen even when the temperature reads normal.
There was a guy who posted on there that he decided to use distilled water only.
It ate up his engine.
Water wetter may or may not contain what you need to protect the engine.
Don't mess around, use what DC tells you to use.
It contains anti corrosion protection.
It has a higher boiling point than water, there are places inside the heads where boiling might happen even when the temperature reads normal.
There was a guy who posted on there that he decided to use distilled water only.
It ate up his engine.
Water wetter may or may not contain what you need to protect the engine.
Don't mess around, use what DC tells you to use.
The reason is that antifreeze actually messes up the water's ablility to absorb heat. If you use water alone you would theoretically lower the engine temperature by 50 degrees.
The purpose of Water Wetter is to add the anti corosion stuff back in. Plus here in South Florida it never even gets close to freezing.
My car was getting a little close to the redline last time I was at the track so I am hoping this will lower the temperature. The temperature gauge is rock solid at 190 on the expressway but on the track it creeped pretty close to 240 degrees.
The purpose of Water Wetter is to add the anti corosion stuff back in. Plus here in South Florida it never even gets close to freezing.
My car was getting a little close to the redline last time I was at the track so I am hoping this will lower the temperature. The temperature gauge is rock solid at 190 on the expressway but on the track it creeped pretty close to 240 degrees.
Here is a really detailed description on Water Wetter:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm
Let me know what you guys think.
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm
Let me know what you guys think.
Ron
Enthusiast
Iceman:
From an unhappy user of Water + Water Wetter:
(not me)
**********************************************
Well folks, I just got off of the phone with Todd at Arrow Racing to find out the status of my engine rebuild.
He basically told me that my engine had some of the worst corrosion that they had ever seen. The water pump was badly corroded, engine block had corrosion damage, as well as other coolant leaks. When I told him that all I ran in my engine was distilled water and water wetter he was not surprised. He said that he had a few other engines with corrosion damage that were using it too. He said that the damage was almost bad enough to write off the entire engine. Of course my worry was more related to writing off the engine and not having the serial numbers match up.
To verify the subject of this discussion, the engine was getting oil leakage due to blow-by in several cylinders. There was also a significant build up of carbon in the combustion chambers. Detonation was definitely due to oil getting into the chambers and dropping the octane significantly.
Has anyone else experienced these kinds of problems? I was pretty shocked to hear that water wetter had something to do with corroding the water pump housing, the thermostat housing and engine block (and just about anything else that was aluminum).
I just thought that I should give all of you water wetter fans a heads up.
Brad
Read the rest of the thread here
From an unhappy user of Water + Water Wetter:
(not me)
**********************************************
Well folks, I just got off of the phone with Todd at Arrow Racing to find out the status of my engine rebuild.
He basically told me that my engine had some of the worst corrosion that they had ever seen. The water pump was badly corroded, engine block had corrosion damage, as well as other coolant leaks. When I told him that all I ran in my engine was distilled water and water wetter he was not surprised. He said that he had a few other engines with corrosion damage that were using it too. He said that the damage was almost bad enough to write off the entire engine. Of course my worry was more related to writing off the engine and not having the serial numbers match up.
To verify the subject of this discussion, the engine was getting oil leakage due to blow-by in several cylinders. There was also a significant build up of carbon in the combustion chambers. Detonation was definitely due to oil getting into the chambers and dropping the octane significantly.
Has anyone else experienced these kinds of problems? I was pretty shocked to hear that water wetter had something to do with corroding the water pump housing, the thermostat housing and engine block (and just about anything else that was aluminum).
I just thought that I should give all of you water wetter fans a heads up.
Brad
Read the rest of the thread here
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
A few data points to help with the decision:
Coolants (glycol) contain an anti-corrosion package such that when you mix it 50-50 with water, results in perhaps 7% - 8% additive, 46% water, 46% glycol.
Aftermarket products are sometimes labeled as to be used in conjunction with some amount of antifreeze and not by itself. Read the literature carefully.
The glycol does not lubricate the water pump seals. Water pump seals will do well in water; what is needed is an additive package that does not abrade the seals. The most significant reason GM developed the DEX-COOL specification was that it contains no silicates, which in time come out of solution, form agglomerations and wear the pump seal. This is why you change green coolant; the silicate is supposed to be layered on the surfaces to provide corrosion protection, but comes off after a while and has to replaced to continue to prevent corrosion. Water pump seals just had to suffer the ride.
Most of the boiling point increase is from the pressurized radiator cap, not from the glycol use.
Glycol has half the heat transfer capability as water, so a 100% water coolant is nominally 25% more heat transfer than a 50-50% mixture.
A simple and effective method might be to change the glycol-water ratio from 50-50 to 70-30.
Coolants (glycol) contain an anti-corrosion package such that when you mix it 50-50 with water, results in perhaps 7% - 8% additive, 46% water, 46% glycol.
Aftermarket products are sometimes labeled as to be used in conjunction with some amount of antifreeze and not by itself. Read the literature carefully.
The glycol does not lubricate the water pump seals. Water pump seals will do well in water; what is needed is an additive package that does not abrade the seals. The most significant reason GM developed the DEX-COOL specification was that it contains no silicates, which in time come out of solution, form agglomerations and wear the pump seal. This is why you change green coolant; the silicate is supposed to be layered on the surfaces to provide corrosion protection, but comes off after a while and has to replaced to continue to prevent corrosion. Water pump seals just had to suffer the ride.
Most of the boiling point increase is from the pressurized radiator cap, not from the glycol use.
Glycol has half the heat transfer capability as water, so a 100% water coolant is nominally 25% more heat transfer than a 50-50% mixture.
A simple and effective method might be to change the glycol-water ratio from 50-50 to 70-30.
joe117
Enthusiast
"If you use water alone you would theoretically lower the engine temperature by 50 degrees."
I know that pure water will transfer heat better. Fifty degrees cooler seems like a lot.
No argument, but how did you come up with that fifty degree number?
Also, pure water isn't really an option because of the corrosion factor. What does water wetter do to the heat transfer of pure water.
Again,
I just think that this is a bad thing to experiment with. If your car is running hot, get a better radiator.
I know that pure water will transfer heat better. Fifty degrees cooler seems like a lot.
No argument, but how did you come up with that fifty degree number?
Also, pure water isn't really an option because of the corrosion factor. What does water wetter do to the heat transfer of pure water.
Again,
I just think that this is a bad thing to experiment with. If your car is running hot, get a better radiator.
Ron
Enthusiast
The 50 degree comment is from the Redline website.
I'd guess creative marketing, but admittedly no science to back that opinion up.
I'd guess creative marketing, but admittedly no science to back that opinion up.
Well you guys have talked me out of Water Wetter. Now, how about the "Zerex Racing Super Coolant"?
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=2264
95Viper's thread about it:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=99864&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=1&o=&fpart=1
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=2264
95Viper's thread about it:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=99864&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=1&o=&fpart=1
Car/Driver had the article on Zerex Racing Super Coolant months ago. The article had a Vette on the cover but I can't remember the month. It is made by Zerex obviously and has the same corrosion protection as their antifreeze but doesn't have glycol. Thus, cooler temps but no freeze protection.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
If everything works as hoped for, there won't really be a temperature "reduction" but a temperature rise reduction.
Or a temperature increase decrease.
In any case, it should stay closer to the thermostat temperature.
Or a temperature increase decrease.
In any case, it should stay closer to the thermostat temperature.
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
so is the drill, 2 gal. of distilled water / 2 gal. of coolant / and water wetter? Or do you use water wetter in place of the coolant?
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
What if you live in North Palm 
Why not all of the water distilled? I was told by Tom Session I would need 2 Gal. of distilled and 2 gal. of coolant. He didn't have an opinion on the water wetter. Living in Fl and tracking the car quite a bit I'm looking for the perfect mixture.
Taking the Viper into Dodge tomorrow for the radiator flush along with other things.
Why not all of the water distilled? I was told by Tom Session I would need 2 Gal. of distilled and 2 gal. of coolant. He didn't have an opinion on the water wetter. Living in Fl and tracking the car quite a bit I'm looking for the perfect mixture.
Taking the Viper into Dodge tomorrow for the radiator flush along with other things.
Water itself in its pure form of H20 when in contact with a metal that can be chemically reduced (oxidized) will cause corrosion. In an engine, the rate at which this happens will increase dramatically as dissimilar metals, high temparature, and the small electric current which will inevitably be flowing through any coolant source serve as catalysts to the oxidation process. Generally, thin walled aluminum is the first two be used up, as it is the most reactive metal in the system. It will also fall victim to electrolysis is there is any brass in the system.
Read: ANY OF YOU GUYS WITH BRASS PLUGS AND FITTINGS IN YOUR AFTERMARKET ALUMINUM RADIATORS: GET THEM OUT NOW AND REPLACE WITH ALUMINUM OR STEEL PLUGS!
The properties of distilled water simply serve to keep heavy metals/minerals out of the water source you choose, in order to keep them from depositing on the inside of your engine and possibly inhibit heat transfer, and I suppose, increase the rate of pump seal wear as well and corrosion if in sufficient quantities.
(If any of the engineers/chemists out there caught any mistakes in my analysis, let me know! its been a while since that Chemistry for Engineering class!)
joe117
Enthusiast
And I always wondered if distilled water was really a requirement.
Could there be enough calcium or anything else in a couple of gallons of water to really matter?
If you have a steam iron that boils water and you keep adding new water,
the minerals will build up. I don't see that in a car.
I think the distilled water thing might be a holdover from the days when people were always adding water to their cooling system.
Could there be enough calcium or anything else in a couple of gallons of water to really matter?
If you have a steam iron that boils water and you keep adding new water,
the minerals will build up. I don't see that in a car.
I think the distilled water thing might be a holdover from the days when people were always adding water to their cooling system.
joe117- If you saw what happens to the clear glass dishes and glasses in the homes of Buffalo in about a month, I dont think you would be able to ask that question again! We are one step away from rocks falling out when you turn on the faucet here.
Pure H20 is a bad conductor of electricity. Use distilled water and coolant, (RED)Dexcool is best. I only use factory coolant, period. If you use Dexcool make sure you thoroughly flush both block and radiator. Tap water is a huge mistake, and most dealers use it.
Camfab- I should have specified:
Coolant and water are a good conductor, as well as (i assume) water wetter and water. Straight water should not have a problem with electrolysis.
Coolant and water are a good conductor, as well as (i assume) water wetter and water. Straight water should not have a problem with electrolysis.
