Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

GTS Bruce

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I am not sure that you will notice any real HP improvement.Usually people that dyno get 7-8 HP.Dodge sanctions them and that is what they use on the ACR and claim 10 HP at the crank.460 vs 450.However the tubes look a lot better and come in colors to match the car or red to match the engine.Also you can hear the motor **** in air with them and the car will be a little more responsive to the throttle.See you Saturday. Bruce
 

RockyTop

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K&Ns alone (no smoothies) gave me a confirmed (dynoed immediately before and after 10 minutes apart) 14.7rwhp on my 97 GTS. They work ! I am sure Sean's do too and may be even better quality.
 

radta7

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Should the stock airbox stay or are we better off removing the box to go with conical filters? I like the chrome tubes from parts rack? Any experience with them and K&N's in the stock airbox?
 

PRVT JET

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

There are some mods you can do to your stock air box to help air flow. getting rid of the rain baffle is one, I cut out the complete top of front piece of the box. Next time we hang out I will show you my air box.

Isaac
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

The tubes look nice and they will give you a very small hp boost.
The filters give you a little hp too.
Do both, but you will not feel any difference.

If I wanted to get more power from my Viper, I'd put a small nitrous shot on it.
Doesn't cost much, it's only on when you turn it on and you will feel it.

The nitrous is the only thing you can do that doesn't cost much and gives power you can feel.
Properly used, it won't hurt your engine.
 

ViperJoe

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Why doesn't your userid show the DATE you registered and your NUMBER of poste?
Catchy userid! Makes me thik that is is a message from an administrator.
 

STUGOTS

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

I did a flow test on the K&N vs S&B while the K&N were good flowing the S&B's are about 70% better.
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

I would look at it this way.
Saying one flows 70% more than the other is only important if there is a restriction.

You would need to see the vacuum in front and behind the filter to tell if there was any gain for one over the other.
 

FE 065

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

I wouldn't. If there's a filter in a Viper airbox, then there's a restriction.

I'll take the filter that flows 70% better.

:)
 

STUGOTS

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Joe your right I dident notice a huge diffrence (I noticed a small one) but if it flows 70% better then there MUST be an improvment.
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

70% higher flow isn't going to buy you anything if it is already flowing all it needs.

Look at it this way.
What would you get if you made the fuel line, from the tank to the engine, three times as big?

I don't think it would buy you anything. It's already big enough for a stock engine.

Just a guess, but if it flows better, it probably isn't filtering as well.
 

FE 065

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

You must be registered for see images
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

FE065, You don't seem to have any science to back up your ideas and so, your ideas must be based in superstition, tradition and things that you just seem to "know".

I understand you really believe that you know what you are talking about.
Perhaps you could write a little explanation of why you think I'm clueless.
 

AlvaSpeed

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

If you get rid of the rain baffle can you still drive the car in the rain without worries of water getting into the intake? and causing some unhappines to your checkbook?
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

The water getting in will not be good for the filter element.
I don't think it will hurt the engine.

I don't think it's worth doing either.
 

Shelby3

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

My filters and tubes felt like 4 hp. :usa:
 

VIPERnXr4ti

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

i think joe has the right idea with his argument on the filters...the 70% improvement in flow is only useful if the motor needs it. While if the flow rates are actually a 70% improvement id go with those just based on that. I doubt you will see much more power(if anything like 1-2 ponies). His fuel line statement makes sense as well. If you made the lines bigger, you would probably get less fuel at the same fuel pressure because the velocity of the fuel flow would suffer. What your looking for in air flow to your motor, is the best combination of airflow(amount) and velocity. Velocity is probably the more important of the 2.


Anthony
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

If you made the fuel line three times as big, the pressure and flow would be the same.
You would just have more fuel in the line because it would have more volume.
The larger line could flow more if you asked it to do so but since it wasn't restricting flow to start with, the larger line wouldn't be removing any restriction.
No improvement.

The air filter with 70% more flow will not give you any improvement if there is no vacuum difference from one side of the filter to the other.
No change in pressure means no restriction.
No restriction means no improvement by reducing restriction.
 

FE 065

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

FE065, You don't seem to have any science to back up your ideas and so, your ideas must be based in superstition, tradition and things that you just seem to "know".

I understand you really believe that you know what you are talking about.
Perhaps you could write a little explanation of why you think I'm clueless.


...I just don't have any science that's as bizarre as using a 3x bigger fuel line analogy to somehow support an anti K&N/smooth tube stance.


There's plenty of previous threads with positive results from adding tubes and K&Ns.


A possible lack of vacuum btw does mean that freeing up airflow with an air filter that outflows another by 70% will have zero impact on engine VE (volumetric efficiency).


AlvaSpeed, just carry a length of sponge/foam that's a little thicker, and a little longer than your NACA duct opening and stuff it in the opening if it rains. You won't be using much power in the rain anyway, and your airbox can get air from the airbox entries adjacent to the NACA duct on each side.


:)
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

"A possible lack of vacuum btw does mean that freeing up airflow with an air filter that outflows another by 70% will have zero impact on engine VE (volumetric efficiency)."

FE065,
The words you are using in the quote above mean something.
But I don't think that you know what they mean.

Please, prove me wrong by giving an explanation of the above quote.
 

STUGOTS

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Joe if the engine is "getting all it needs" why would smooth tubes and filters add any power? why would you buy them?

Joe I have been meaning to ask you a question for some time so here it goes.

I have never EVER seen you give any credit to ANY product all I ever see you do is try and tell us why it wont work so my question for you is what mods do you have on your car???
 

vipermike0217

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

I tryed ROE smoothtubes, but with RamX air filters. If the increase in air intake noise at idle is any indication, it is a inexpesive worth while upgrade.
Sounds like a vacume cleaner................
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Stugots,
Smooth tubes probably give you a little hp. I have them, they look nice they don't cost much.

Aftermarket filters probably give you a little hp, I have them. My car needed filters, I got filters with the tubes from Roe.

So, now you know that I have tubes and filters.

I put in a 3.55 too. Not for speed but so I could use 6th gear at more reasonable speeds.
I've got Kouhmo 700R too. Also 3" Belanger cat back because I wanted it louder.

The reason I always seem to be telling you that various things will not give you the boost you expect is simply because it's the truth.

You tell me Stu, what are plug wires going to give you other than radio static?

Vipair or any fancy air box is a waste of money. You are not going to feel anything. Any small dyno gain might just be because it helps on the dyno.

You say your 70mm TBs give you a boost. Well, perhaps at peak hp they might. But they will hurt you everywhere else.

There are things that will give you power. These things are not cheap and they don't just bolt on the outside of the engine.
Change the cam, rockers, heads, headers. Then you'll see some extra power.
Get a nitrous kit or a blower.

These little bolt on mods are a waste of time. If you want some power, do the real mods. There is no free lunch. You will never get any meaningful power out of these silly things.

If you get suckered in on every stupid little bolt on that comes along, it probably will sound like I'm against everything.
 

FE 065

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

"A possible lack of vacuum btw does mean that freeing up airflow with an air filter that outflows another by 70% will have zero impact on engine VE (volumetric efficiency)."FE065,The words you are using in the quote above mean something.But I don't think that you know what they mean. Please, prove me wrong by giving an explanation of the above quote.
You must be registered for see images
 

STUGOTS

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Well to answer your question plus wires look good as well and carry a better spark over stock but no HP or TQ.

As far as the T.B's losing everywhere else thats not true I lost no low end torque what so ever.

As far as doing real mods, my car is at Chucks as we speak gettin jesel 1.7 Rockers,pushrods and a VEC 2 along with the wires and skip shift elimilator.
 

joe117

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Think Stu,
The stock wires are lighting the fire as it is. Do you believe that a solid wire will deliver more spark and thus light a bigger fire?

The wires are a good example of something that is good enough. You are not going to improve a stock or near stock Viper by replacing good factory wires with aftermarket wires.

So when you say, "carry a better spark over stock", you are in the same ballpark as a guy who adds a bigger fuel pump to a stock Viper. It will pump more fuel but the stock one is way good enough for a stock engine.

Oh, by the way, when you come back on the site asking how to get rid of the radio noise, the answer will be to remove the solid core wires.

Stu, you are just about the only guy I have ever heard who insists that the bigger TBs give more power. I haven't done the research but I believe the guys who have.
They have told you over and over that the 70mm will not help your stock or near stock Viper.
Why doesn't everyone use 70mm TBs? It's an easy mod and if it worked you would see everyone with them.

This kind of reminds me of the carburetor thing back in the old days.
Every kid with a Chevy SB wanted the biggest carb he could buy. You could try to talk sense to them. You could show them the numbers but they just wouldn't listen.

You tell me STU, if the stock TB isn't causing a restriction at WOT, then what are you going to get from a bigger hole?

Congratulations on the other mods you are having done. I'm sure you will see an improvement with those.
 

STUGOTS

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Re: Smooth Tubes, K&N Filters

Well Joe Chuck confermed that you WERE right about the wires so I apoligize I was wrong (BTW I did not get them installed).

However I also talked to Sean Roe and confermed that 70mm TB's will not make you lose ANY HP or TQ and pose a very little improvement on a stock viper,while it is a little gain it is some and does not **** anything.

So I guess in the end you were right on one and i was right on one I can live with that.


BTW the new mods I got installed a great and Chuck did a terriffic job.
 

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