Tilton Carbon Clutch

Discussion in 'Performance Modifications' started by Steppenwolf, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)

    Hello to all partecipants of this super VCA forum;
    i want change stock clutch with a more aggressive,performance streetable/track-day and take in consideration
    a s/c Paxton future install.
    I saw diferent possibility (maybee you know other...):
    -Fidanza many knows;
    -Tilton Carbon clutch :flywheel pound 12.5 or 45 lbs.??? wich is better??? and spring pack GG or GGG ???



    I wait your reply to undestand wich's the better choice.
    Thank you !:2tu:
    Luigi from Italy:drive: [/SIZE]
     
  2. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    -How much Horsepower are you planning on making?
    -Is the car street driven or strictly a race car?
    -Is paxton install in the future a definite?


    If you are planning on a paxton car, street & track driven, up to 1600 Horspower or so, 45 pound flywheel and GG spring pack is the way to go.

    If its a race car that wont have a paxton, sub in the 12.5 pound flywheel. The extra parasitic drag from the supercharger will likely make it too difficult to drive on a 12.5 pound flywheel, especially on the street.

    No need for the GGG spring pack unless you are planning on UNGODLY horsepower later such as 1600+... and you can always rebuild it as a GGG anyway on its next rebuild.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2007
  3. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    My plan is a 800-850 hp power car.
    -car streetable and also ready for a day truck;
    -i want install Paxton Novi 2000 system in the future,not now because car is in the garantee period yet.

    I undestand the better choice is 45 pound flywheel+GG spring.
    Wait reply for more suggestion.
    Thanks
    Luigi:2tu: :2tu: :2tu:
     
  4. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    45 lbs/GG is by far the best choice for your application. You have no need for the GGG and the paxton rules out the 12.5 pound flywheel.
     
  5. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    OK Tilton 45/GG :2tu:
    ...and better price to buy it (by internet) where is????

    Alternative brands? Fidanza or other ????:confused: take in consideration or not?

    Thanks
    from Italy
    luigi :drive:
     
  6. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    The Tilton clutch is on my website (www.ViperSpecialtyPerformance.com/catalog). If you want the 45 lb. flywheel, I am the only distributor for that item, as I was the one who designed it. Also, I was the first to install the Carbon clutches into the SRT's and get them to work correctly. I am not trying to toot my own horn (ok, maybe a little, haha) but no one else is really going to be able to help you out with or sell you the correct Tilton clutch assembly for your car, and certainly not the correct flywheel.

    If you are seriously considering a Tilton, there are NO alternatives. Fidanza and other brands in that price range are not in the same WORLD, let alone the same league of clutches.

    Dan
    Viper Specialty
     
  7. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Hello Dan,
    I saw on your site TILTON clutch for Viper.
    Really i try to find it with Google or other search engine but only your site sell it ?!
    Bobby Archer sell Tilton clutch but only with light flywheel (if i don't mistake)
    Why? No competitors!
    Anyway i look for a detailed description of this kit before buy it (it's not a simple budget kit).
    If you have other info reply to me (also with a private message).
    Thank you
    Luigi from IT :drive:
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  8. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Hello Luigi,

    The main reason why I am the only seller and have no competition is that I hold the rights for producing the heavy flywheels as I designed them, which is the key to allowing street use of the clutch on 95% of cars, as well as virtually 100% of of the supercharged cars. For the SRT, even the rights to the light flywheel is held by another company making it difficult to obtain, but I know who to contact for getting them. Without these flywheels, the it is not possible to complete an SRT-10 System. We are also the first ones to install a Carbon clutch system an an SRT which we completed last year, after a painstaking process of finding the right combination of parts to get it to fit the SRT, both from Tilton and custom parts made for us. To my knowledge, nobody else has done it yet, even with the lighter version. The only Carbon clutch assemblies readily available are the Light versions for the Gen-2. Heavy Gen-2 and All Gen-3 Kits you will more than likely be getting through us.

    Myself and Kai SRT-10 were the Beta Testers for the new system so to speak, and we both are amazingly happy with our investments, they are everything we hoped for and more. I have a ton of information on my website about the clutch, but if there is something specific you would like an answer to, please ask, whether it be here or in a PM.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2007
  9. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)

    :2tu: Hello Dan,
    your comments and information are enought to understand all Tilton clutch characteristic.
    I have a look on your web site and i find not a ton but a general description and a impression by Kai .
    he explain:The first thing you notice is how the reduction of rotating mass affects the engine, I have the 12.5 lb. version.... so maybee also this is Ok for my street/truck use?

    A little remarks to other partecipants of forum:ONLY DAN ANSWER TO MY QUESTION...NOT OTHER YET!;)

    thank you again
    Luigi from IT:drive:
     
  10. Jim Wilson

    Jim Wilson Viper Owner

    Posts:
    707
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ, USA
    You might want to look at the SPEC 3+ disc and pressure plate. I have it on mine with a Fidanza flywheel. No driveability issues and can hold around 900+hp. And much cheaper.
     
  11. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA

    Hello Luigi,

    Since your car will be Paxton Supercharged in the future, you should go with the 45 pound version. The 12.5 pound version will be far too light for street use with the extra parasitic loss from the Paxton, the car will be too difficult to get moving from a stop.

    Keep in mind, even the 45 pound version is 25 pounds LESS than stock, however it retains about 80% of the rotational mass. It is by far the best choice for any street driven car, and really the only choice for a supercharged car.
     
  12. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Dan,
    your answer is enought for my question :)

    But i have a last question:
    If I don't install s/c Paxton , wich is the better fly wheel choice , more light or 45 pounds?

    P.S.: I know that I'm a difficult man (my wife speak me everytime this!):D

    Thank you
    Luigi :2tu:
     
  13. Kai SRT10

    Kai SRT10 Viper Owner

    Posts:
    1,562
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Location:
    Salt Lake City
    I have the Tilton on my car.
    So far, I am very pleased with it.
    My car is naturally aspirated and I have the lightweight flywheel.
    Very drivable for a clutch with this much torque handling capacity. The engagement stroke is very short, and requires more effort than stock, but it is also very progressive and fairly easy to modulate.
     
  14. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA

    For street use, I still advise going with the 45 pound version. On the street, inclines and hills are very common, and the 12.5 pound version will require a very good driver to keep the car from stalling, and can be frustrating to use at times if you didnt knowingly make the sacrafice for a true racing flywheel for track use. The 12.5 pound version is best suited to a driver who has a LOT of manual driving experience, and who is a regular track-day attendee. The 45 pound version was designed specifically for driving on the street/track, where the 12.5 pound version was originally intended for mostly track use.

    Keep in mind, the OEM clutch and flywheel assembly weighs about 65-70 pounds! The 45 pound version retains about 75-80% of the rotational mass of OEM, while the 12.5 pound version is only about 15%. The 45 pound version has been engineered to reduce the weight as much as possible while retaining the rotational inertia, the best of both worlds for street use.

    I hope that helps...
     
  15. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Thanks Kai, couldnt have explained it better myself.
     
  16. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Thanks Kai and again thanks to Dan.:)

    I wait more reply and opinion in this forum by owner of Tilton to finalize my idea in the matter.:2tu:

    Luigi from IT:drive:
     
  17. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    To be honest, I dont know if you are going to hear from anybody else on this. The Tilton is a very expensive and thus very rare clutch assembly. I have sold a handful of them in various configurations, however I think Kai and myself are the only two who are on this website who have them, in an SRT at least. There may be others in the Gen-2 forum (12.5 pound or GTSR versions), but likely if there is one in an SRT, it came through me to begin with.

    Dan
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2007
  18. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    WOW...so now I'm one of a few italian owner of a Viper srt 10 and maybee UNIQUE with this rare clutch!!!!:D
    Very good:)
    I hope to buy it in a few time to realize this interest tuning.
    keep in touch....

    luigi from iT :drive:
     
  19. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Hello Luigi,

    Haha, yes, you would certainly be one of a very few that have this clutch in a Viper, especially in an SRT-10.

    If you decide to purchase, please keep in mind that these clutches are built-to-order, and generally take 8-16 weeks to get if not in stock. Please make sure you plan ahead on this item, and order long before you will need it.

    Thanks,

    Dan
     
  20. Kenny

    Kenny Viper Owner

    Posts:
    329
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Dan,

    I'm confused. Why not just use the Comp Coupe WC setup? Is there some reason this wouldn't work on what I've always heard was an otherwise identical drivetrain? It sounds like you have done a lot of developmet work, but if this was already out there, why reinvent the wheel? The complete setup with the metallic clutch pack is about half the price of what you have listed on your site. Are your prices in Canadian dollars?
     
  21. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Kenny-

    No, my prices are not in Canadian dollars, thats the price difference between a Metallic and a Carbon clutch... You are looking at two totally different setups. The CC-WC setup is a Tilton Metallic as you pointed out, NOT a Tilton Carbon. As such, the majority of the parts are different. It is a lot cheaper, but has much less capability and is not streetable. The main difference is that a Metallic clutch will wear MUCH faster, and not be very progressive, making it "On/Off" feeling. Couple that with a light flywheel on the street, and it would be hell. Simply, its a more cost effective option in a racecar where you can get away with its short wear intervals and grabby nature. Dont get me wrong, it will "fit" on a street SRT, but I sure wouldnt want to be the driver! This could be alleviated somewhat with our Heavy flywheel versions, but it still doesnt help the wear rates and the lack of modulation.
     
  22. Kenny

    Kenny Viper Owner

    Posts:
    329
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    I've just started researching this and you're way ahead of the curve on this, but I thought the only difference between the WC setup and yours would be the Carbon disk pack. In any event, I gotta give you major kudos for pushing this to the street market. I just didn't know the price difference between the carbon clutch disks and the steel was a couple grand.
     
  23. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    No problem Kenny, let me know if you need one in the future or info on them. I can get them in any configuration, metallic, carbon, light, heavy, gen 1/2 or gen 3 and get you the correct setup right off the bat. Been there... done that... took notes. All of the Carbon variations are on my website, I will be adding the metallic versions soon for the slightly more cost conscious racer.

    PS- yes, the Carbon clutch pack is about 3200 bucks more than the metallic clutch pack by itself. Its not just the discs, the entire assembly is different.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007
  24. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    JW you comments is the second in this forum .
    I agree with Dan about the high performance of Tilton carbon clutch :2tu: (real with a little price reserve) but also I take in consideration your comments about SPEC 3+ clutch.
    These days i was in touch directly to SPEC specialist ( not with this forum) and real this is a very good alternative for replace stock one.
    This forum isn't (4 me) the place to compare pro/cons Tilton/Spec or other brands because choice is a personal think.
    Anyway after the various info from Spec I understand the follows:
    If I choose a SPEC st3+ ,lightweight flywheel and lightweight pressure plate, the weight will be 41.5 - 42 lbs, which is great for street driving.
    There is enough inertia in that setup to not effect normal starts.
    SPEC specialist have tested down to 35 lbs and still not had bad drivability at engagement. 12.5 lbs is about what road race clutch weighs…that is too light for a street car. !!
    Also underline : the lighter the better for when you are at speed and driving.
    The Viper has plenty of horsepower and tq, and will love the light parts from a kick.
    While driving there is no downside to lightweight parts.
    But when starting from a stop, especially when the car is loaded on a hill, you will want some inertia for ease of start.
    The lightweight st3+ clutch and lightweight billet flywheel will give you that, making it easy under all driving conditions.
    So, 45 lbs is OK, but 41.5-42 is better and will not give trouble form a stop.
    Cost for this is 1300 $ (+or-) transport included.:2tu:
    Not bad!
    Comments ......????
    Luigi from Italy :drive:
     
  25. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Luigi,

    If the Spec will meet your needs, then go that route. The Tilton is a very expensive clutch as I have stated before, and has a very specific audience. If you arent 100% sure that the Tilton is what you want/need, then do not purchase it... it is far too large of an investment if you dont actually need it, or cant justify it in the long run.
     
  26. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Dan,
    as i spoke in my previous message this forum isn't (4 me) the place to compare pro/cons Tilton/Spec or other brands because choice is a personal think.:)
    Forum is a place to exchange opinion,simply personal,in order to oper your knowledge in the matter and NOT to formulate a ABSOLUTE VERDICT!
    So really for me is it,understand better some thinks and not damage image of your or other products.
    Really you are also a supplier... and I understand very well it.;)
    thank you again to all partecipants.....I wait your reply !:2tu:
    Luigi from IT:drive:

     
  27. Viper Specialty

    Viper Specialty Viper Owner

    Posts:
    5,596
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2002
    Location:
    Buffalo NY, USA
    Hello Luigi,

    I think there may be a little bit of a language barrier here, its hard to tell. I hope you dont think I am trying to sell you something you dont need, cant use or wont be happy with- its more along the lines of the fact that when someone asks about a Tilton clutch, as a supplier, you should assume that customer knows what they want. The Tilton is top shelf, as good as it gets. It's hard to stumble onto a Tilton clutch, see its price, and continue to consider it unless you full well know what it is and why you need it- that is why I did not entertain any other clutch combos for you, I assumed you knew what you are getting into. Perhaps the language barrier contributed to that, I am not sure, it was just an assumption I made.

    For example, when Kai approached me about the best clutch for his car, I already knew which it was, but it wasnt my decision. I explained to him about the Tilton, what is was, its benefits, and its price. After knowing all of that, he made a decision based on his own needs and budget and went for it. The thing is, once you decide to go Tilton, there really is no other choice, as there really is no other directly comparable clutch as far as I am concerned. There are cheaper clutches for sure, but they arent a Tilton either, and you are going to give up something to go another route- As a customer, you have to understand that as well. In most cases, the customer could never use the capability of a Tilton, thats why cheaper clutches exist. If you wont ever need any of its capabilities, there is no reason to go the Tilton route unless you just simply want the best and can afford it.
     
  28. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Hello Dan,
    i reply to your message in a very simple mode: my character is very very rational,unfortunately i don't like to much philosopy...it's out of my view! for me 1+1=2 and only 2. And I hope the same measure value in Italy,in your country and everywhere.
    So apart language barrier(?!) i try to find also with this forum opinion the opmimal choice,the better compromise for my usage.
    now I receive your opinion,sure professional, about Tilton carbon clutch and only another one ,about SPEC clutch.
    I take time to compare better products with partecipants information and i hope that is a good way to resolve the matter.
    That's all!
    Thank you again...keep in touch!
    Luigi from IT :drive:
     
  29. Steppenwolf

    Steppenwolf Viper Owner

    Posts:
    67
    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2007
    Location:
    ITALY NE (near Venice)
    Any feedback ( pro&con) about SPEC CLUTCH STAGE 3+FLYWHEEL LIGHT?

    I wait answer

    thanks

    luigi:drive:
     
  30. Viper X

    Viper X VCA Member - South

    Posts:
    3,471
    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Hey Daniel and Kai,

    How has your hydraulic throw out / slave combo held up with the Tilton? When you state about 50% greater pedal effort, I don't worry about my left leg, but I do worry about the slave. I've had several slaves fail with stock or slightly above stock pedal pressure. Do you do anything to help this weak link perform better? Maybe this isn't an issue with the Tilton, but I'd like your input.

    I've tried numerous clutch / flywheel combos and experienced first hand the driveability difficulty with another brand of twin disk clutch, light flywheel and a super charger. It was brutal.

    On the Spec stage 3+, I am currently running it along with a stock flywheel. No street "launch" issues. It holds the power very well but it seems to expand a bit and get "sticky" when warm which can create difficult shifting. It also chatters more than I'd like at times but pedal pressure is about equal to stock.

    Not sure where to go next.

    Dan:drive:
     

Share This Page