Totally amazed with real tires

[Allan]

Ran my first track weekend with the Hoosier R6's, and still blown away at how much difference there is between these and everything else.
The event was at Pikes Peak International Raceway with PCA. I have run with these guys before and they had placed me in their intermediate group. After two sessions with the new tires, they moved me to the advanced group. -I didn't expect that. Their advanced run group is made up of the PCA instructors and monster drivers in race-prepped cars that are not street legal. These dudes are full-blast serious on the track. I have to admit, I was a little intimidated to drive in that sort of company,...guys with way more experience, in actual race cars.
I am proud to report that I have not let the Viper community down.
Was able to hang with those guys, -no problem. I was able to pass the majority of the group. There were two of those cars that were just a little too much for me to keep up with, and I had to give the 'point-by'. But, out of a dozen cars, I think that's pretty killer, as my car is only a lightly modded gen III -still has A/C and full interior. (maybe I need an ACR)

I have to attribute the awesome weekend experience to the R6's. They have transformed the car into a HPDE track weapon.
I cannot believe how much grip they have. Took them right to the limit, then dialed back a little. I have never been so consistent before.
With other tires, it's like "save it,...save it,.... oh no,....oops, save it,....recover,..oops, save it,.....wow. kept it out of the weeds that time".
The Hoosiers just hold the car where you want it, and let you concentrate on the line.

I do not like how much sand they throw at the car though. .....that *****.
Everything is a compromise.

Anybody who is considering stepping up to real track tires for HPDE use, don't put it off any longer.
I still have some street tire scrubs that I'll have to put back on the car to use up at some 'less competitive' events, and that is gonna be a drag to do after running tires that grip. But economics (lack of race budget) dictate that.

Enough about my day,..... Nice weather we're having, isn't it?
-Allan

 

[VJR3]

Awsome experience isn't it......I run with PCA groups @ Mid-Ohio, 3 of my other viper freinds run the R6's and we just terrorize the Advance group, the only cars that pass us is us lol.
They will gradually degrade but last quite awhile for HPDE days up to 40 plus heat cycles I have gotten on mine. Just make sure you get the right "hot" tire pressure with them, about 35.5-36 psi, any lower or higher they become not happy.

 

[treesnake]

Ran my first track weekend with the Hoosier R6's, and still blown away at how much difference there is between these and everything else.
The event was at Pikes Peak International Raceway with PCA. I have run with these guys before and they had placed me in their intermediate group. After two sessions with the new tires, they moved me to the advanced group. -I didn't expect that. Their advanced run group is made up of the PCA instructors and monster drivers in race-prepped cars that are not street legal. These dudes are full-blast serious on the track. I have to admit, I was a little intimidated to drive in that sort of company,...guys with way more experience, in actual race cars.
I am proud to report that I have not let the Viper community down.
Was able to hang with those guys, -no problem. I was able to pass the majority of the group. There were two of those cars that were just a little too much for me to keep up with, and I had to give the 'point-by'. But, out of a dozen cars, I think that's pretty killer, as my car is only a lightly modded gen III -still has A/C and full interior. (maybe I need an ACR)

I have to attribute the awesome weekend experience to the R6's. They have transformed the car into a HPDE track weapon.
I cannot believe how much grip they have. Took them right to the limit, then dialed back a little. I have never been so consistent before.
With other tires, it's like "save it,...save it,.... oh no,....oops, save it,....recover,..oops, save it,.....wow. kept it out of the weeds that time".
The Hoosiers just hold the car where you want it, and let you concentrate on the line.

I do not like how much sand they throw at the car though. .....that *****.
Everything is a compromise.

Anybody who is considering stepping up to real track tires for HPDE use, don't put it off any longer.
I still have some street tire scrubs that I'll have to put back on the car to use up at some 'less competitive' events, and that is gonna be a drag to do after running tires that grip. But economics (lack of race budget) dictate that.

Enough about my day,..... Nice weather we're having, isn't it?
-Allan

Your track time will never be the $ame.....

I see a datalogger, suspension mods etc. in your future...

 

[Allan]

Your track time will never be the $ame.....

I see a datalogger, suspension mods etc. in your future...

......Oh no,...... You mean, it gets worse? (this addiction)

Is there a rehab program available for this, .........not that I have a problem or anything...

 

[TowDawg]

Welcome to a whole new world. A world where I don't even enjoy "spirited" mountain runs near as much anymore because I'm running on street tires. I could never even think about getting back on the track on street tires again.

 

[Allan]

Awsome experience isn't it......I run with PCA groups @ Mid-Ohio, 3 of my other viper freinds run the R6's and we just terrorize the Advance group, the only cars that pass us is us lol.
They will gradually degrade but last quite awhile for HPDE days up to 40 plus heat cycles I have gotten on mine. Just make sure you get the right "hot" tire pressure with them, about 35.5-36 psi, any lower or higher they become not happy.

Thanks for the heads up on the tire pressure, that's about where I'm at.

Funny about the terrorizing deal. I only had one guy that obviously freaked out. Must have not wanted an American car to pass him, or the new guy in the group, or whatever.
Anyway, I caught up to him on the end of the straight by late braking. Then was riding his bumper through the infield roadcourse. This guy was trying to do anything he could to stay in front of me. (I though it was funny, -and a little unsafe) He went from driving a smooth, clean, proper line, to driving his Porsche over the apex curbing on every turn. -really upsetting the car.....he was running as if I were the cops, driving on the sidewalk like a TV car chase. I don't mean clipping it with the inside tires. He was actually driving over the curbing with the whole car. I am lucky he didn't spin in front of me while doing that. The Porsche suspension must be really good to tolerate that sort of abuse. He finally gave me the 'point by' on the next straight, and I made a big gap between us with the throttle. (his car was not one of the race prepped cars with an instructor in it)

I am a competitive person by nature, but I have learned to check the ego at at the gate. If a 'lesser car' is approaching my rear bumper, I let him by, no problem. He's obviously faster.
That doesn't happen to me that much anymore, as I am improving as a driver. Still have lots to learn, and get better, but not so much of a chump as when I started (and thought that I had a fast car). -I got schooled ugly style by the guys who could actually drive.
I was suprised at that one Porsche dude behaving like that on the track. ..........schooled him on what's up with Vipers. -full blast.

 

[TowDawg]

Checking the ego is definitely needed at the track. It amazes me how long I'll get stuck behind someone sometimes because they don't want to get passed. And the people that edit their track videos so they don't ever show them being passed (I get a kick out of watching other people's videos that I ran with and all it shows is them passing people, never me passing them). I post mine from when we head out to when the checkered flag is waved. I really don't care if I get passed, although it almost never happens to me in HPDE anymore.
The only faster guy out there this weekend that passed me was in a freaking NEON! Granted, it was a SRT4 world challenge car and was so fast I could only put about 2 car lengths on him down the long back straight at Road Atlanta. The part that blew my mind though was that I had been not only passing, but lapping that car in other sessions, so I was little surprised to see him stay with me for a lap. After i let him by, he was slowly pulling away until I got stuck in traffic and then he was gone. When the session was over, i walked over to where it was pitted so I could figure out what the heck just happened. It turns out that one of the Archer Racing pro drivers was driving during that session and his wife had been driving during all the others. It's amazing what the exact same car can do with different drivers.

 

[gb66gth]

There is no shame in a pont by.
It shows that you are mature enough to respect others abilities and not see it as a blow to your ego.

Full on slicks are life changing.

 

[Richie7]

Allan, how long did you drive on street tires before making this switch?
How is the feel before they start to break away during oversteer vs sport cups?

 

[Allan]

Allan, how long did you drive on street tires before making this switch?
How is the feel before they start to break away during oversteer vs sport cups?

I am starting my 6th year this season with the Viper as a dedicated track car.

Ran on Nitto Invos to start with, they **** at the track, although my favorite street tire. -have them on my Corvette.
Went through many sets of Kumho XS, and loved them. Very predictable tire at the limit. Lots of noise to communicate where they were in grip. Exellent tire for learning to handle the car. Too bad they are discontinued, but that forced me to find something else.
.....So, on to the Pilot Sport Cups.
That forced me to clean up my driving style. (I used to drift and slide the car around alot -for entertainment. The Kumhos did that so well)
The Cups are amazing for tires that have a tread on them, but are a little difficult to feel when they are gonna let go. I had a few spins with them, and almost without warning.
I had no problems with the R6's in the way they felt at/close to the limit. Very confidence inspiring. I felt the limit as a slight, progressive slip angle. Not amazing traction, and then into the weeds like the Cups seemed to do. I focused on driving as clean as possible and tried to keep the tires at the limit without going beyond it. -I did not induce oversteer like I used to with the Kumhos, so I can't answer how they feel in an oversteer condition. -for what these things cost, I am not going to make a smoke show with them for fun.
If you are running on Cups now, And sometimes feel a little insecure about grip limit, make the switch to Hoosiers.

 

[Allan]

There is no shame in a pont by.
It shows that you are mature enough to respect others abilities and not see it as a blow to your ego.

Full on slicks are life changing.

Sometimes you can learn stuff by following the faster guys, like brake points, and turn-in points. Kind of like lead / follow with an instructor for free.

 

[Magnus_]

R6's are a great tire for track days. They have good grip and the $/lap is a lot lower than slicks.

What front/rear sizes you running?

 

[Allan]

Now you guys are gonna think I'm a poser.

Obviously, the rear is 345/30-19.

Alot of the other ******** track rats on here are running 295, 305, 315 on the front.

I put a lot of thought into the tire upgrade before pulling the trigger on it.
Asked a lot of questions, talked to other people at track days that had Hoosiers on their cars.
After my experience with the Cups not making noise before they reached their limit, knowing the R6's would be similar, but at higher speeds, not wanting to have my learning curve to put me into a wall due to lack of 'feel for the tire's behavior'.

I decided to start with the OEM front size 275/35-18.
That would tend to give the car an 'understeer tendancy' and be safer and easier for me to deal with while learning how to drive all over again with track tires.
I did get the car to that point, and see I why guys run the wider tires up front, but just starting out, safety was more important to me than trying to be a 'big boy' at first.
Honestly, for my own good, I will probably stay with the 275 front for a while. I do not want to ride in the ambulance.
The speeds that these tires make possible, are not speeds that I want to get 'bit' at. So I am playing it safe.

 

[01viper4me]

Now you guys are gonna think I'm a poser.

Obviously, the rear is 345/30-19.

Alot of the other ******** track rats on here are running 295, 305, 315 on the front.

I put a lot of thought into the tire upgrade before pulling the trigger on it.
Asked a lot of questions, talked to other people at track days that had Hoosiers on their cars.
After my experience with the Cups not making noise before they reached their limit, knowing the R6's would be similar, but at higher speeds, not wanting to have my learning curve to put me into a wall due to lack of 'feel for the tire's behavior'.

I decided to start with the OEM front size 275/35-18.
That would tend to give the car an 'understeer tendancy' and be safer and easier for me to deal with while learning how to drive all over again with track tires.
I did get the car to that point, and see I why guys run the wider tires up front, but just starting out, safety was more important to me than trying to be a 'big boy' at first.
Honestly, for my own good, I will probably stay with the 275 front for a while. I do not want to ride in the ambulance.
The speeds that these tires make possible, are not speeds that I want to get 'bit' at. So I am playing it safe.

Believe it or not... on my 2001 RT-10 I am running 335/30's on all four corners as my daily setup. I sticks like crazy and is a complete blast while auto-crossing. The only thing I would say is that it does make it prone to slight oversteer. I would say (at least on my 2001) that the perfect setup for balance would be 315's in the front with 335's in back.

Here is a picture from my last AutoX event with 335's up front.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[rw99]

Good to hear your insights; I've always been curious about the difference drivers feel when going from the Cups to an R6 or similar dedicated track tire. In my own (limited) experience, it's a little weird with the Cups... as you say, great grip, but it seems like they're more likely to let go quickly. In particular, I get very little auditory feedback from them when compared to, say, Invos.

I drive my car to the track, though, so unless I can cache a set of Hoosiers in Monterey (and Sonoma!) I'll have to stick with a streetable tire.

Thanks for posting, others that have made the switch to slicks (particularly for Gen IV ACR), please chip in with your experiences!


Rich

 

[hou99gts]

Welcome to a whole new world. A world where I don't even enjoy "spirited" mountain runs near as much anymore because I'm running on street tires. I could never even think about getting back on the track on street tires again.

I have always been worried about this, that is why I have not done the R6's, and still won't thanks to this info. Having run Cups and Invo's on the street, Cups have more absolute grip, but give very little feedback compared to the Invos.

 

[Magnus_]

345/275 will push like a *****, but its a very safe setup.

345/295 push very bad as well.

I ran 345/275 for a year, then 345/295 for a couple years, now I try to get the car much more neutral to help it rotate around the turns.

When I ran R6's, i was never able to hear them over the loud car. You'll certainly feel when you're at the edge of grip though.

 

[Allan]

Good to hear your insights; I've always been curious about the difference drivers feel when going from the Cups to an R6 or similar dedicated track tire. In my own (limited) experience, it's a little weird with the Cups... as you say, great grip, but it seems like they're more likely to let go quickly. In particular, I get very little auditory feedback from them when compared to, say, Invos.

I drive my car to the track, though, so unless I can cache a set of Hoosiers in Monterey (and Sonoma!) I'll have to stick with a streetable tire.

Thanks for posting, others that have made the switch to slicks (particularly for Gen IV ACR), please chip in with your experiences!


Rich

I am driving to and from the track as well. There are a few other guys in my area that doing that on Hoosiers, so I figured, why not.
My farthest commute is 150 miles one-way, and that will be pushing my comfort limits for traveling on race tires, so we'll see how it goes.
I do have a spare set of wheels and a minivan to haul them in, I may start having a buddy run the Viper support vehicle.

 

[VJR3]

I am driving to and from the track as well. There are a few other guys in my area that doing that on Hoosiers, so I figured, why not.
My farthest commute is 150 miles one-way, and that will be pushing my comfort limits for traveling on race tires, so we'll see how it goes.
I do have a spare set of wheels and a minivan to haul them in, I may start having a buddy run the Viper support vehicle.

Not perfered.....I used to drive to the track on R6's and now I trailer.....big differance in longevity and over all stickness of the tires for me

Good luck....this madness never ends