VCA Drama: what are the known facts?

V

VCA Forum Staff

Guest
It would also be nice to have a single voice / point of contact / frequent updates from the board. In all of these posts, it is hard to determine exactly what steps the board has taken, and exactly where things stand. It would be very easy to put a "sticky" post with updates posted by the board only.

We have forwarded this suggestion on. We like it. :)

Posts/threads should NEVER be removed EXECPT for insults or personal attack and if so, It should be done not by management but by an elected review board, totally independent from the national office/ ***

A few thoughts:

1 - I am sure everyone here can see, the forums are much more "open" than they have been for MANY years. They are more open now than they were back in 2006 and prior! As has been mentioned before, we are all for less moderation and as such, there has been almost NO posts removed since the last "moderator" created havoc on these forums and removed threads, posts, and put many people into moderation. As for the few posts that have been removed, they were personal attacks. As you say, those can't stay, so they were removed.


2 - There are two moderators here now and they are NOT the national board or anyone who sat in National office in the past (And so you know, none of the past people have access to this account anymore). We are users of the forums and we have our own personal accounts just like you. We do not have info on what the national board does. We do not sit in on their meetings. We do not have more info than you guys. And we do not have input on what National does. We are strictly moderators. That’s it. This was done to keep the two entities separate and therefore independent of National’s thoughts. Although Dan can use this account if he so chooses, he has made it pretty clear he does not want to be a site moderator and he must focus his priorities on getting the club up and running again. Of the two posts Dan did under this account, he signed his name at the bottom and was answering questions.

3 – As the question will inevitably come after the above point, no we will not reveal our identities at this time. Put yourself in our shoes, would you want the personal threats aimed at you? Yes, we still get some very nasty *** sent to us and all we are trying to do is help get these forums back to a time when there was so much less anger and frustration here.
 

Camfab

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2004
Posts
2,915
Reaction score
3
Location
SoCal
For starters your numbers are way off. Sounds like a country with an anarchy would be perfect fit for you. It isn't about the membership fee, it's about those at the national level taking advantage of the members. I would prefer to ignore it too, but that won't lead to change. Nobody likes to be lied to and hiding facts is the exact same thing.

Actually my numbers are not off, our own club has had Ralph show up to events as well as engineers. The $800 or so bucks for VOI was a gift in terms of **** for the buck. As I detailed in a previous post, the only guy I was appalled by was the past president. That was for his behavior that I personally witnessed at VOI. I hate anarchy and don't even get what your trying to say here. I don't see how I've otherwise been taken advantage of, in fact everything I've done with the VCA Has been a bargain. I don't have an agenda, I'd love to see Maurice be the President of the club, as far as I'm concerned he's a died in the wool Viper guy. Additionally if he made a ton of money off the club, it wouldn't bother me one bit. See in America you have a choice, you can join a club if you like, or don't. So if you feel like your somehow your being taken advantage of, well then leave. Why all the drama?
 

Nine Ball

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Posts
3,411
Reaction score
4
Location
Houston, TX
Since we are now being encouraged to offer suggestions, I have one.

Please delete the alter-ego faceless user account "VCA Forum Staff" and make it mandatory for staff members to post with their own screen name, so that we can all see who is addressing us. If the alter-ego account is to continue being used, then a simple signature showing the user's full name at the end of each response would be welcomed.

As a former site admin and owner, I can't stand alter-ego accounts. People will act differently when their identity is hidden, it is no different than being a troll, in some cases.

Thanks,
Tony
 

ViperSmith

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 19, 2012
Posts
2,918
Reaction score
0
Location
Tysons Corner, VA
Since we are now being encouraged to offer suggestions, I have one.

Please delete the alter-ego faceless user account "VCA Forum Staff" and make it mandatory for staff members to post with their own screen name, so that we can all see who is addressing us. If the alter-ego account is to continue being used, then a simple signature showing the user's full name at the end of each response would be welcomed.

As a former site admin and owner, I can't stand alter-ego accounts. People will act differently when their identity is hidden, it is no different than being a troll, in some cases.

Thanks,
Tony
It isn't a big surprise that a shared account was being abused by people who no longer had positions of power, banning / moderating users.
 

ViperJohn

Enthusiast
Joined
May 29, 2003
Posts
3,615
Reaction score
1
Location
Maryland
Coloviper------congrats on the new family addition. Enjoy him because they grow up fast! I will be cut/pasting your suggestions and send them to *** by email tomorrow morning. The fact you were basing your advice from your personal experience lends even more credibility to your suggestions. I would do it tonight, but I have been out in Viper since 9:00 am and just got back in the door. It's been a while since I have burned through a full tank of gas in one day, however, I'm exhausted.
 

MoparMap

VCA National President
Venom Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
1,857
Reaction score
97
Location
Kansas
So I'm the bad guy now? "who's going to answer the phones. You perhaps". You went on the attack pretty quick when I pointed out what the majority of your members want. I seem to remember a poll that was an overwhelming "get them out" The majority wants them gone now. As a Viper owner, and prospective client (member), perhaps you might not want to attack the very people you will need to keep your club from going under completely.
btw, the contract for Coast 2 Coast Management runs out in 4 days. So, saying that "oh look how much we are doing, we put them on a month to month" is kind of misleading....

Wade.

How many members are in the club and how many votes were taken on that poll? The last numbers I thought I remembered were something like 3000 members in the club and only a few hundred votes on the polls. It may be a majority of the forum users, but not necessarily the club. I've heard several of the regional votes to split from the club were the same way. The votes were a "unanimous" yes, but that's because non-votes aren't considered a yes or no. The only one I remember hearing was one of the Texas clubs said there were something like 27 votes for a yes out of a club of 65+ members. I think the majority of the club is just happy hanging out with their local regions and fellow Viper owners, they don't really care about the national stuff going on. Kind of like how the majority of reviews of the club membership management (C2C) and VPA interactions have been positive. They don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but they're content with what they have to deal with.
 

MoparBoyy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Posts
648
Reaction score
0
Location
Apopka, FL
I think the majority of the club is just happy hanging out with their local regions and fellow Viper owners, they don't really care about the national stuff going on.
I would say that was the case until the letter from Chrysler was issued and some other details like Tim W letter were released. Now that Chrysler is involved and probably pulling support that has EVERYONE concerned and with good reason. The loyalty to SRT and Ralph were greatly underestimated by the leadership of the club. They wrote a letter about it on Jan. 13th, ask Chris for that 8 page letter.
 

MoparMap

VCA National President
Venom Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
1,857
Reaction score
97
Location
Kansas
True, if the SRT relationship completely disintegrates (or goes somewhere else) it would probably buck some more people, but I think a lot of the club members are still just local guys that like hanging out with their regions and other owners. I think several clubs even offer "regional only" style membership at a discount. I met Ralph at the COTA race a few weeks ago and despite the fact that the club is in dire straights he's still happy to talk to Viper guys (or at least seemed like it). I was amazed at the welcome all the Viper guys got at the SRT hospitality setup. It was dang nice and everyone was really friendly. You can tell they really just care about the cars and comraderie as well.
 

Nine Ball

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Posts
3,411
Reaction score
4
Location
Houston, TX
True, if the SRT relationship completely disintegrates (or goes somewhere else) it would probably buck some more people, but I think a lot of the club members are still just local guys that like hanging out with their regions and other owners. I think several clubs even offer "regional only" style membership at a discount. I met Ralph at the COTA race a few weeks ago and despite the fact that the club is in dire straights he's still happy to talk to Viper guys (or at least seemed like it). I was amazed at the welcome all the Viper guys got at the SRT hospitality setup. It was dang nice and everyone was really friendly. You can tell they really just care about the cars and comraderie as well.

I was at COTA too, sorry I didn't get to meet you. You'll also notice that not a lot of positive was said about the VCA. That was an SRT event, of course they like Viper owners. I overheard a lot of negative comments about the VCA, and I don't recall anyone wearing any VCA apparel. This is highly unusual, compared to past events.
 

sun diego

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Posts
765
Reaction score
0
On that poll, remember, banned and "moderated" members were not allowed to vote, skewing it towards the VCA supporters. A vote like that is a sampling of active members, and statistically valid without too large an error percentage.
 

MoparMap

VCA National President
Venom Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2013
Posts
1,857
Reaction score
97
Location
Kansas
Agreed, the club was generally swept under the rug and honestly it was for the better. Everyone was there to watch the race and cheer the team on, so I'm glad that it didn't come up much. I was mostly just happy that SRT didn't snub Viper owners a little based on the issues lately. Pretty sure they knew that a lot of us were still in the club, but they were still happy to have us to represent the brand. The car and owners are what they really care about, not the name, which is how I thnk a lot of owners are.

Sorry I didn't get to talk to you either, though I saw your car in the lot when I left and love the single lug conversion. I've had the wheels off my car so many times that would have saved me a lot of time, lol. I'd love the ALMS style air jacks on the car as well to really make things quick.
 

slysnake

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Posts
1,688
Reaction score
0
As for the few posts that have been removed, they were personal attacks. As you say, those can't stay, so they were removed.
I am a moderator at another (non-car related) board. When we moderate something we leave the post but delete the offensive wording. Then we put a note, in red type, in the post that says "Moderated for offensive language", or what ever the reason is. That way everyone knows what's going on. Also we always list who we are when we moderate. If your moderation was deserved then there should be no need to worry about responses.
 

AZTVR

Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 28, 2005
Posts
3,033
Reaction score
6
Location
Chandler AZ
Since we are now being encouraged to offer suggestions, I have one.

Please delete the alter-ego faceless user account "VCA Forum Staff" and make it mandatory for staff members to post with their own screen name, so that we can all see who is addressing us. If the alter-ego account is to continue being used, then a simple signature showing the user's full name at the end of each response would be welcomed.

As a former site admin and owner, I can't stand alter-ego accounts. People will act differently when their identity is hidden, it is no different than being a troll, in some cases.

I am a moderator at another (non-car related) board. When we moderate something we leave the post but delete the offensive wording. Then we put a note, in red type, in the post that says "Moderated for offensive language", or what ever the reason is. That way everyone knows what's going on. Also we always list who we are when we moderate. If your moderation was deserved then there should be no need to worry about responses.

I agree that I would want each moderator to have a unique username; but I would be OK with it being different than their personal forum username.. I do not think that it is necessary that they use their real world name or they use their forum name. The moderator is supposed to take action per site rules and put aside personal bias. Almost like assuming an "alter ego" (but maybe not quite an AE in the alley lingo. ) To me, there is no relevance to knowing that V10nuttyy is ModeratorGoneWild. I can see where people would want to analyze ModeratorGoneWild's motives by analyzing V10nuttyy's persona. I definitely want as much as possible left in the moderated post so that users see why and who is being moderated and if seemingly not warranted, they should see if it is a certain moderator that they wish to complain about or to.

In the end, I do not really care if the rules are set so that the moderator MUST use their normal forum username, but, if volunteers can't be found who would do that, then some alternate solution must be worked out.
 

Fatboy 18

Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Posts
5,092
Reaction score
0
Location
Surrey, United Kingdom
Well it looks like the UK VCA section is going to step away at the end of this year :( With so many unanswered questions, It seems the right thing to do. See you all on the other side?
 

MoparBoyy

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 16, 2011
Posts
648
Reaction score
0
Location
Apopka, FL
Well it looks like the UK VCA section is going to step away at the end of this year :( With so many unanswered questions, It seems the right thing to do. See you all on the other side?

congrats. we'll meet you on the other side with open arms.
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
0
Location
Miami
Good morning. Question. The VCA has this site; another magazine is at the printer and still one more may be issued by December; the vendor discounts are still in place; and, political turmoil aside, things seem pretty normal from a member benefit point of view. It seems to me that the prudent thing for Regions which may be on the fence, inlcuding those that may have already proposed to leave the VCA, to do is wait until the new National Officers come into office this January who will have been elected pursuant to a member wide election and then, in February, revisit the issue and decide which organization offers the better member opportunities and benefits. It is a buyer's market. Why make a decision now when waiting makes more sense and the opportunity cost to wait is small?
 

GRANGER73

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Posts
513
Reaction score
16
The future of both clubs depends on who does the best job of selling their product. This will turn out to be a true competition. The VCA should have the advantage as members (and enthusiasts) have been making their wants known for quite sometime. However their silence on VPA, non release of the financial statements for Y/E 3/31/13, info regarding the raffle and forum moderating issues still remain unresolved. They know what needs to be done, but they seem reluctant to do it.
 

FOViper

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Posts
108
Reaction score
0
Good morning. Question. The VCA has this site; another magazine is at the printer and still one more may be issued by December; the vendor discounts are still in place; and, political turmoil aside, things seem pretty normal from a member benefit point of view. It seems to me that the prudent thing for Regions which may be on the fence, inlcuding those that may have already proposed to leave the VCA, to do is wait until the new National Officers come into office this January who will have been elected pursuant to a member wide election and then, in February, revisit the issue and decide which organization offers the better member opportunities and benefits. It is a buyer's market. Why make a decision now when waiting makes more sense and the opportunity cost to wait is small?

Because waiting has gotten the VCA to the point it is in today. People want action and they want it now. Can you explain why the VCA should even wait 2014 to hold a vote on new national officers? The current officers have come out and said they don't want the job permanently. The membership is calling for new folks but yet there is going to be a 3 month delay. Why? They've acknowledged the problem and are going to hold a "special" election, why delay it? Get the people in there that want to fix the vca in there asap.

My guesses to see why they are waiting
1. To see if there's actually going to even BE a club next year. As it is right now there's only 2 confirmed regions from what I've heard.
2. They want to collect renewals BEFORE the election.
 

Paul Hawker

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2000
Posts
4,660
Reaction score
0
Location
San Diego, Calif, USA
"2. They want to collect renewals BEFORE the election."

See your point, but from the VCA viewpoint, why would you want the people that are not going to be in the club voting for the new officers?

Only those that want to continue with the club should be the ones to select their leadership.
 

Hostile

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 9, 2001
Posts
610
Reaction score
0
Location
upstate NY
Paul
Maybe give people what they want and they will stay.
You seem to be saying "trust us" and we know where that
has gotten this club. Time to have a real election not just
the same old "stick it to the membership".
Real answers and facts would go a long ways also.

Skeeter

 

FOViper

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Posts
108
Reaction score
0
"2. They want to collect renewals BEFORE the election."

See your point, but from the VCA viewpoint, why would you want the people that are not going to be in the club voting for the new officers?

Only those that want to continue with the club should be the ones to select their leadership.

Maybe if people actually felt they had a voice they would renew....
 

Richard Koch

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Posts
283
Reaction score
0
Location
Bremerton, Washington
I am more than happy to refrain from joining VCA for next year as I did last year. I am still getting sporadic permission to post on the forum. So far it has been mostly talk about reforms. VCA has a very very long way to go to obtain trust of members.
 

slaughterj

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 6, 2001
Posts
5,266
Reaction score
0
Good morning. Question. The VCA has this site; another magazine is at the printer and still one more may be issued by December; the vendor discounts are still in place; and, political turmoil aside, things seem pretty normal from a member benefit point of view. It seems to me that the prudent thing for Regions which may be on the fence, inlcuding those that may have already proposed to leave the VCA, to do is wait until the new National Officers come into office this January who will have been elected pursuant to a member wide election and then, in February, revisit the issue and decide which organization offers the better member opportunities and benefits. It is a buyer's market. Why make a decision now when waiting makes more sense and the opportunity cost to wait is small?

Actually earlier than later is fairly important with regard to VOI planning, researching locations needs to begin if it has not already and a location needs to be secured, the earlier the better. Of course that begs the question of whether management would be transferred if the bulk of owners were with a different organization, but ultimately all of this going on is about the Viper owners, so VOI should be managed accordingly.
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
0
Location
Miami
Perhaps I am missing something, but those who have communicated by mass email about the possibility of a new club claim that they have extensive support. If that is the case, then the simplest and least costly way to achieve their goals is to run candidates for National office in the VCA and get them elected by voting in the member wide election coming up. Then they would not need to set up a new web site; new magazine; new vendor advertising; new infrastructure to handle the collection of dues; accounting; bank accounts; new checks; phones,etc. There is alot of back room work involved in a club that provides its members the level of benefits that have been provided by the VCA. The winning candidates would just assume management over the existing VCA assets subject to the revised and reformed bylaws which according to posts by the new Board members will increase the power of regions and VCA members and decrease the power of the National President. In that regard, where is the money for the establishment of the proposed new club's infrastructure, etc. coming from? Will its first year's dues be for establishing that infrastructure with no stipends to its regions until later?
 

Leslie

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Posts
4,525
Reaction score
0
Location
Indiana
I signed on to copy some pics from the gallery and saw this thread.

I remember when I went through my divorce, I kept thinking in my mind how much 'easier' it would be to just stay and try to make it work. My friends reminded me I had already done that, several times. Leaving wasn't easy, it was a LOT more work than I expected...BUT, I had stayed true to my morals and values on how to be treated.

Also, I think there's a VERY good reason employers ask for a resume when you are applying for a job...past behavior is a strong indicator of future behavior. It's all anyone has to go on until you actually 'walk the walk' long enough that it's worth bragging about.:)

Just my thoughts....best to everyone who wants to get back to the focus on our VIPERS:)
 

Bobpantax

Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Posts
6,957
Reaction score
0
Location
Miami
Hi Leslie. A divorce ending a marriage is very different from a car Club. In a divorce, two people ( at least until the Supreme Court allows polygamy and polygyny), dissolve an intimate union. The VCA is an inanimate entity providing member services to 3000 people run by a National Board. The problem was with certain Board members not the entity and the stated goals of the entity. A better analogy is how a town, city, county, state or the federal government itself has elections that allow voters to change leadership. There really is no need for a new club - just new leadership. And the upcoming national elections with a member wide vote will provide that. But if you still want to try and use the marriage analogy, think of it this way. Assume that you had the right to substitute husbands with no pay out to the old husband of any kind; no child custody battle; and, no divorce proceeding. Furthermore, assume that five or six capable men all campaigned for you to select one of them to be the substitute. Wouldn't that be better than the divorce on every level and in every way? The members of the VCA will have the right to "pick new husbands or to be PC wives" in the upcoming election. It is a no brainer to me. That is the way to go.
 

Leslie

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 5, 2005
Posts
4,525
Reaction score
0
Location
Indiana
Bob, not sure you read my message based on your response.
Alot of people don't want to stay, even if it is an easy swap.

That shows how much damage has been done.

If what you offer is so great, people will follow you.

Again, I do wish everyone finds a group to be with to enjoy the Vipers, take care.

Leslie
 

Gustfront

Viper Owner
Joined
Jul 30, 2013
Posts
161
Reaction score
0
Location
Willis, Tx
Looks like your South Florida VCA Chapter has voted to go with the new club Mr Pantax. That speaks volumes to anyone who cares to pay attention as to what is really going on in this club instead of droning on about how it's everyone else's fault.
From the outside, looking in, it appears to me like it's a "too little, too late" kind of situation. Plus, I notice that this Marshall person is still answering the phones at VPA. And replying to threads on here.....against the wishes of the membership as has been indicated before.

Wade
 

sun diego

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Posts
765
Reaction score
0
Bob, there may be significant liabilities with the unregistered raffle. Chris Marshall is still in VPA, which seems to be an issue with Chrysler. All the "goodwill" from letters to Chrysler, banning, moderations and behavior of previous presidents are still part of the legacy.
 

FOViper

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2013
Posts
108
Reaction score
0
Perhaps I am missing something, but those who have communicated by mass email about the possibility of a new club claim that they have extensive support. If that is the case, then the simplest and least costly way to achieve their goals is to run candidates for National office in the VCA and get them elected by voting in the member wide election coming up. Then they would not need to set up a new web site; new magazine; new vendor advertising; new infrastructure to handle the collection of dues; accounting; bank accounts; new checks; phones,etc. There is alot of back room work involved in a club that provides its members the level of benefits that have been provided by the VCA. The winning candidates would just assume management over the existing VCA assets subject to the revised and reformed bylaws which according to posts by the new Board members will increase the power of regions and VCA members and decrease the power of the National President. In that regard, where is the money for the establishment of the proposed new club's infrastructure, etc. coming from? Will its first year's dues be for establishing that infrastructure with no stipends to its regions until later?

Simple and least costly doesn't mean it's the best Bob. The VCA name has been tarnished beyond repair IMO. Some members don't want anything to do with the club no matter who is in charge. People are calling for a fresh start and a new club gives them that. YOU are in the minority, the major minority in believing that the VCA is salvageable. Sure, folks could wait a couple more months, run for office and see what happens. What happened the last time people were waiting with a promise of change?? That didn't turn out so good did it? You are gonna say everyone should just move forward and forget the past which is great in theory but members WILL NOT forget the past and what has happened recently. Once trust is lost it is a extremely hard thing to regain.
 

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
151,829
Posts
1,672,685
Members
15,948
Latest member
JpbRT-10
Top