Why not run ACR-X in ALMS?

[Boxer12]

I know they aren't talking anything more than a Viper Cup car, and weekend warrior, but why not enter the ALMS? The car ran well enough at Sebring to make it look like a legitimate contender in the GT2 class. [I know that there are add'l mods that would be required...] Too much displacement? Too many cyl?

 

[Fatboy 18]

Yea, great idea Would be fantastic to see a load of Vipers back on track

 

[ViperGeorge]

I love the idea but how much development would it really take to campaign a car that would be competitive and in compliance with the rules. Any ALMS experts out there?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I know that when the Comp Coupes were changed to run ALMS most of it was for pit stop improvements. Center lock wheels, larger tires (slicks) and refueling disconnects and all that goes with that. Even then not very competitive.

 

[dtenney]

I do not see the ACR-X being competitive in ALMS GT2 class and would question why a pro team would choose the X over the Comp Coupe unless it was for a spec series, i.e. Viper Cup or Porsche Cup. If ALMS made a class for the car then that would be a great choice at that point.

-David

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

The black and white Viper that ran in ALMS this last season was pretty embarrassing and expensive as a privateer team.

 

[cheryl mccally]

Why do Vipers do so poorly in theses race series when they have so much motor?

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Why do Vipers do so poorly in theses race series when they have so much motor?

You have the top drivers driving FACTORY backed rides. The power with restrictors is pretty equal for each class. When Dodge had a factory backed Viper team with drivers like Beretta and Wendlinger they won nearly every race. The European series ELMS did just as well.

 

[Bandit3]

Cheryl--restricter plates deemed necessary by ALMS do not allow the engine to breath well enough for the V-10.

 

[gb66gth]

The sanctioning bodies overly restrict the Viper motors, relative to their weight. That's why they were rarely competative.

I bet if you line up an ACR-X, a 911 Cup car, an F430 Challenge car, and a Mustang FRC500 the Viper would dust 'em all. But that's just a guess.

 

[Boxer12]

The ACR-X was smoking the CC's at Sebring, but I guess if you throw in restrictor plates and neutralize the HP advantage it might not fly like it does, Because of the wt, I assume a less restricted motor would be allowed. It would be awesome if someone did this.

 

[dtenney]

At Sebring the Comp Coupes were running a spec tire(VRL) which is closer to a Hoosier R6, both are slower than a Michelin slick. Also Kuno is an SCCA Pro Driver. With that said I was impressed with the ACR-X, it is awesome to see how much performance 110K can buy, and how much potential lies in every ACR. As much as the lap times impressed me, I am impressed that Dodge found a way to charge so little over the price of a standard ACR for the X. From what I hear ALMS GT2 teams are sinking close to 1 million in their cars to make them competitive.
-David

 

[3SRTsandGTS]

Why do Vipers do so poorly in theses race series when they have so much motor?

First, let me start with I am offering my opinions based on assumptions. I believe the biggest disadvantage to the ACR-X is its mass. Indeed, its propelled by an awesome motor, but that mass needs to be stopped, turned, and started over and over again during the course of a race and season. As such, the cost of racing increases and without factory backing I can understand why not many travel this road. When you factor in sequential gear boxes and other go-fast goodies to be competitive year round, the ACR-X becomes a $200 K car.

As an example of mass advantage, at the Sebring Winterfest there was a 6 hr enduro. Roughly 12 of the 15 cars that finished were Miata's. I don't know for sure, but I'll assume the ACR-X may have required at least 1 and maybe 2 brake pad changes. Meanwhile, those Miatas grabbed gas and kept on driving.

Overall, in my opinion, the ACR-X is by far the best deal on the planet. I congratulate Dodge for making it happen, and I look forward to these cars hitting tracks around the country this summer! I also hope that Dodge can provide a few of its engineers from time-to-time to attend track days because I don't see reps from Chevy, Porsche, or Ford walking the pits and lending help. Its simply incredible that you can talk with an individual who built your car to get pointers from A to Z!

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Problems with ALMS are also due to the ability of most of the cars to literally lay on the ground. The Viper has severe issues to get as low as the other machines out there and some say it would take repositioning the tranny , engine , etc. to get the lowered center of gravity on many of the cars in the Class. Restrictor plates , etc. don't help , but possible lobbying with this new car could help get it included as a test case ----- it just needs some allowances and ALMS could make them if they wanted.

 

[dtenney]

The ACR-X might be eligible in the future to run GT Challenge class with the Porsche GT3 Cup Cars, but would not be competing directly with the Comp Coupes in GT2 if any were competing.

 

[JGarrett]

From IMSA: Cars in the GT2 class are more moderately modified, two-wheel drive race cars and are some of the most recognized sports cars in the world –Aston Martin Vantage GT2, BMW M3, Corvette C6.R, Dodge Viper Competition Coupe, Ferrari F430 GT, Ford GT-R, Panoz Esperante GTLM and Porsche 911 GT3 RSR. GT2 cars put out between 450-500 horsepower and have a minimum weight of 1,145 kilograms (2,480 pounds).

 

[Boxer12]

I was at Sebring just looking at the Ford GT-R's, and I can imagine an ACR in that class. I know the top teams spend stupid money...and there are many good points made here. I wonder if any consideration is being given to the '12 model, to make it more adaptable to this series? It really seems to be the best forum for sports cars to show their stuff to the public.

Showing Bill's point--

 

[bluestreak]

I know they aren't talking anything more than a Viper Cup car, and weekend warrior, but why not enter the ALMS? The car ran well enough at Sebring to make it look like a legitimate contender in the GT2 class. [I know that there are add'l mods that would be required...] Too much displacement? Too many cyl?

Whatever it takes to take away between 140 and 190 hp but go 6-7 seconds faster per lap which is a LOT of money and development. The CC is a better racing platform, but needs some updates (I.E. lots of money) to be competitive. It needs dodge to step in and dump a ton of money like GM did with the Corvette's.

Or they could send it to Europe to race in the revised GT1 class where it would need 10-12 seconds faster with the current hp. Still needs a ton of Chassis, gearbox, aero and suspension work to be very competitive. Someone has to want to put the money in. There are also more privateer teams in FIA GT.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

I would venture to say that the major reason that the Viper doesn't do better comes down to money. And alot of that money is money that ALMS gets from it's sponsors. Just like the rag mags get tons of money in advertising fees, I am sure that ALMS gets money from pretty much the same way. Now does it make sense to have some car that would stomp pretty much every car out there if it was allowed to run the way it was built? Nope, not at all. They thus bring in the penalties of weight and restrictor plate penalties as well. Someone said something along the lines of running a race and breathing through a straw to emphasize the point. It made me totally not care to watch ALMS anymore. I prefer to watch World Challenge now.

FWIW: I used to love to watch Tommy Archer run in World Challenge and win races.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Did they ever upgrade the engine in the comp coupes to the 08-10 engine or are the comp coupes still running at 100 HP less than the 8.4's?

 

[Boxer12]

The CC still runs the Gen 3 motor (which guys can tune up if its not the VRL spec car).

 

[bluestreak]

I would venture to say that the major reason that the Viper doesn't do better comes down to money. And alot of that money is money that ALMS gets from it's sponsors. Just like the rag mags get tons of money in advertising fees, I am sure that ALMS gets money from pretty much the same way. Now does it make sense to have some car that would stomp pretty much every car out there if it was allowed to run the way it was built? Nope, not at all. They thus bring in the penalties of weight and restrictor plate penalties as well. Someone said something along the lines of running a race and breathing through a straw to emphasize the point. It made me totally not care to watch ALMS anymore. I prefer to watch World Challenge now.

FWIW: I used to love to watch Tommy Archer run in World Challenge and win races.

The ACR-X would not be competitive in GT2 the way it's built. It could be competitive in the GTC class though.

The development going into the ACR-X is paltry compared to the development of the cars in GT2. The X needs a FAR better gearbox, a TON less weight (almost literally as the minimum weight in GT2 is 2400 lbs), and lots of suspension upgrades. The engine and cooling needs to be built to take 12 hrs at Sebring or 24 hrs at Lemans (or simply replaced with something similar to the older Oreca Viper engines. The Chassis stiffened, wheels widened, aero improved. You could put 800 hp on the ACR-X and it won't be competitive in GT2 straight from Dodge. Certainly not for the endurance races.

Even cars mass produced like the Porsche RSR built specifically for the class need lots of custom work and development to be competitive. A car built for club racing won't be close, even with the hp of the Viper.