Slow start when hot

[redlineviper]

My viper fires right up when cool but after the engine is hot it almost sounds like it isn't going to crank over and then fires up. I am afraid I wont be so lucky one of these times and will have to wait for it to cool off. I know the starter is hotter which takes more power but don't know if I just need a new battery (4 years old) or need to run an additional 4 gauge power wire up front. I am thinking a optima red top. Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[bluesrt]

sounds like a dragy starter to me-- infact if its lights up cold like a firecracker every time, i will betcha 5 bucks it is-- unless you have headers and you dont have the starter insulated,that will do it hot too..

 

[evomind]

id also check your ground wires.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Check:

-Engine & Chassis Ground Straps
-Battery Cables
-Starter for signs of overheating

If obvious, repair/replace.

If all looks OK, you either have a starter going out, or a bad battery. The battery is FAR more likely. Advise Optima Yellow Top replacement. If you still have issues after that, then you need a starter.

 

[AZTVR]

deleted, redundant post

 

[evomind]

if the battery was bad, it wouldnt keep recovering like it does.
its a ground or the starter.
check ur wires from the battery, check the ground from the battery.
if those are good, its probably the starter.
could be the battery too, but that would be the third thing id look at after the grounds and the starter.

 

[LaViper]

FWIW, I couldn't decide on a Battery to purchase after reading all the post's. Decided to buy a Sears Platinim Battery. 880 CCA's, fits perfect (in an 06) & cranks much faster than the 2 1/2 yr. old battery . Good Luck

 

[Viper Specialty]

if the battery was bad, it wouldnt keep recovering like it does.
its a ground or the starter.
check ur wires from the battery, check the ground from the battery.
if those are good, its probably the starter.
could be the battery too, but that would be the third thing id look at after the grounds and the starter.

Yes, it certainly would recover. A cold engine is a lot easier to crank than a hot one [to a point]

A bad battery that has been discharged too far for too long will "appear" to be fine, but as soon as load is put on it, the current will drop. The reserve capacity will become nil, and you have a battery that literally starts to die while cranking the car, but then recovers to full voltage as soon as you stop cranking... I have seen it dozens of times in these cars, probably a 100:1 ratio with bad starters, and 25:1 with bad grounds.

 

[evomind]

Yes, it certainly would recover. A cold engine is a lot easier to crank than a hot one [to a point]

A bad battery that has been discharged too far for too long will "appear" to be fine, but as soon as load is put on it, the current will drop. The reserve capacity will become nil, and you have a battery that literally starts to die while cranking the car, but then recovers to full voltage as soon as you stop cranking... I have seen it dozens of times in these cars, probably a 100:1 ratio with bad starters, and 25:1 with bad grounds.

yeah but the period that it cranks strong while cold and weak while hot is relatively short till it takes a crap altogether.
meaning this condition wont last long b4 it just dies.
so, yes, i agree it could be the battery but if its been going on say a few weeks, its probably another problem or another problem in conjunction with a sinking battery.
jmo.
i just went through this with my spf gt40. turned out to be a bad ground wire.

 

[Black Moon]

I've got a good used starter if you need ome PM me.
Sal

 

[Viper Specialty]

yeah but the period that it cranks strong while cold and weak while hot is relatively short till it takes a crap altogether.
meaning this condition wont last long b4 it just dies.
so, yes, i agree it could be the battery but if its been going on say a few weeks, its probably another problem or another problem in conjunction with a sinking battery.
jmo.
i just went through this with my spf gt40. turned out to be a bad ground wire.

I have seen plenty of discharge damaged batteries linger for YEARS before the owner changes them, usually after it leaves them stranded somewhere because the lights or radio was on. Don't forget, a battery can go bad, without actually failing completely. A damaged plate would kill the battery totally, but a discharge damaged battery will appear to be fine on the surface, but act like a battery 1/10th its size.

 

[evomind]

I have seen plenty of discharge damaged batteries linger for YEARS before the owner changes them, usually after it leaves them stranded somewhere because the lights or radio was on. Don't forget, a battery can go bad, without actually failing completely. A damaged plate would kill the battery totally, but a discharge damaged battery will appear to be fine on the surface, but act like a battery 1/10th its size.

true, electrical issues are weird. as i said, it could be any one of the 3.
the poster can bring his car to advance auto or something and will put a tester on it for free and it will check battery load, starter voltage, etc.
thatll tell u exactly what it is.

 

[Viper Specialty]

true, electrical issues are weird. as i said, it could be any one of the 3.
the poster can bring his car to advance auto or something and will put a tester on it for free and it will check battery load, starter voltage, etc.
thatll tell u exactly what it is.

I dont trust those testers AT ALL. I have seen many batteries that "pass" their tests, that perform horribly in Vipers. These cars just require more juice than most normal cars on the road, and the testers don't seem to take that into account.

 

[evomind]

I dont trust those testers AT ALL. I have seen many batteries that "pass" their tests, that perform horribly in Vipers. These cars just require more juice than most normal cars on the road, and the testers don't seem to take that into account.

if they have the new fangled ones it will show just what the battery is putting out in cca's under load and it will measure what the starter is drawing while its cranking.
you have to start somewhere.
unless u suggest he first buys a battery, see if that works, if not replace the starter, see if that works, and if not then check ground wires and such.
im not sure what you would use to diagnose electrical issues, but the diagnostic tools are industry standard to diagnose such issues.

 

[Viper Specialty]

if they have the new fangled ones it will show just what the battery is putting out in cca's under load and it will measure what the starter is drawing while its cranking.
you have to start somewhere.
unless u suggest he first buys a battery, see if that works, if not replace the starter, see if that works, and if not then check ground wires and such.
im not sure what you would use to diagnose electrical issues, but the diagnostic tools are industry standard to diagnose such issues.

From what I have seen, the "process of elimination" approach in this particular case is the only full-proof way. I have seen Batteries pass ALL tests that perform horribly in the real world, starters test OK that fail with some heat applied. The battery is almost always the actual cause, and these cars KILL batteries, especially those that dont have battery tenders on them 24/7

 

[evomind]

From what I have seen, the "process of elimination" approach in this particular case is the only full-proof way. I have seen Batteries pass ALL tests that perform horribly in the real world, starters test OK that fail with some heat applied. The battery is almost always the actual cause, and these cars KILL batteries, especially those that dont have battery tenders on them 24/7

i would test the system hot.
but ok, the op can just buy a new battery and see if that works. batteries arent that expensive i guess.

 

[redlineviper]

Great posts. I appreciate it. Yesterday I bought an optima battery, just made sense as it was time with the factory battery still in there for 4 years. I am going to drop in the new battery, if that doesn't fix it I will check the ground cable at bat and frame and up front from frame to block. If that isn't it I could put heat wrap on the starter (it does have headers) then replace the starter last. I will post the results. Thanks again for the input.


I forgot to mention what may be relevant info. Te car just got out of the shop that it has been in for 6 weeks. Since I got it back hot starts have been an issue, (just got it back last week and have driven it 3 times.

 

[bluesrt]

Great posts. I appreciate it. Yesterday I bought an optima battery, just made sense as it was time with the factory battery still in there for 4 years. I am going to drop in the new battery, if that doesn't fix it I will check the ground cable at bat and frame and up front from frame to block. If that isn't it I could put heat wrap on the starter (it does have headers) then replace the starter last. I will post the results. Thanks again for the input.


I forgot to mention what may be relevant info. Te car just got out of the shop that it has been in for 6 weeks. Since I got it back hot starts have been an issue, (just got it back last week and have driven it 3 times.

what was it in for?

 

[redlineviper]

what was it in for?

Retune for 10psi pulley, two bar map sensor, and upgrade clutch.

 

[bluesrt]

i would ask them to go back through the process in thier head and see if anything they had apart would be a partner with this?

 

[redlineviper]

Last Wednesday I installed a new optima battery and picked up a 2 gauge ground cable. Installed both at the same time. The car starts a lot faster cold, (thought it started fast before) and when hot it starts great. Thanks for all the input. The old ground strap looked fine, (car just turned 5k miles) but was puny in comparison to the 2 gauge. I think it was just a battery getting tired but the new ground didn't hurt.

 

[Hamrhead]

Good Info here - Thanks to all.


This weekend I started up my '08 after sitting for at least a month - no problem at all. Took it for a drive about 15 miles, then starting out from a red light I stalled it. It did start after two attempts. I then proceeded another 10 miles and shut it off for a few minutes. When I went to start it again it barely turned over then 'clicked'. I needed a jump start to get it going.

When I got it home I put it on the charger. The needle on the charger came right down within a few minutes, but I left it to charge up for 6+ hours anyway. The next day I went to the drag strip and it worked fine all day(must've started it 6+ times while I was there). Volt gauge is reading 14+ constantly.

I think I may try a new battery with more cca's. Possibly a new ground strap as well.