Vette Forum's ZR1 vs ACR challenge?

[Black Mamba]

The ACR vs ZR1 thread over on the Corvetteforum has grown to 10 pages and there's no end in sight.


Better track day car: Viper ACR or ZR1 - Page 9 - Corvette Forum

Hi Guys,

I have to say that I have driven both and the smile factor is in the ZR1. And it doesn't take much to exceed the base line of the ZR1 with just wheels, tires and some minor mods.

On the same tires, the ZR1 will beat the viper. If you doubt that bring the Viper.

The viper has a small driver location and the wheel and pedals are on a slight angle, which bothers me. The ZR1 is just a corvette on Steroids, and they are good steroids.

THe ZR1 brakes are second to no street car that I have driven and most race cars.

On the ZR1, if you install some Headers, pulleys and a tune you will net about another 100 hp reliable. At that point, then is is no contest.

Just my 2 cents. And if you put some Pirelli Rolex 18" GT tires on this car you would be amazed.

Thanks
Lou Gigliotti

 

[jmillsUT28]

I like how he says "if you install some Headers, pulleys and a tune you will net about another 100 hp reliable. At that point, then is is no contest".

How about you put on a Paxton supercharger, headers, and a tune on the ACR then see what happens.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Lou Gigliotti is a real deal racer. Im shocked to hear him say that with just tires the ZR1 would beat the ACR. Makes me wonder, with his racing experience, if he has tested both unbiasly to come to that conclusion.

Well hopefully someone with a 2010 ACR, that can drive on his level, takes the call out.

Debates that start with "If I add this mod and that mod to car X then car Y [stocker of course] is toast" are laughable. You are modding one car while bench racing it with mods vs a stocker. Im actually shocked at Lou for these statements. Dont know him personally but from seeing him race all these years Id have figured he'd be above this type of nonsense unless its just friendly ribbing to stir up an entertaining challenge.

 

[BigDawg]

The LG Motorsports guy says "I think a Stock ZR1 needs the mods that I have to catch up to the same factory mods that come with a ACR Viper. "

That is possibly the most ignorant thing ever said regarding this topic. *** does he think a factory corvette with a supercharger, carbon fiber paneling, and ceramic brakes is?

To catch up to the same factory mods? On the contrary, it's quite the reverse as the ZR1 costs $10-20k more than an ACR. Put that difference in the ACR to make up for the ZR1s factory mods..that actually makes sense.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The LG Motorsports guy says "I think a Stock ZR1 needs the mods that I have to catch up to the same factory mods that come with a ACR Viper. "

That is possibly the most ignorant thing ever said regarding this topic. *** does he think a factory corvette with a supercharger, carbon fiber paneling, and ceramic brakes is?

To catch up to the same factory mods? On the contrary, it's quite the reverse as the ZR1 costs $10-20k more than an ACR. Put that difference in the ACR to make up for the ZR1s factory mods..that actually makes sense.

Well maybe the ACR should likewise be allowed to "catch up" to the GM factory mods by adding a Paxton as mentioned and some CC Brakes etc. The bottom line is that they wont be satisfied with running a Viper that can beat them. So it must be handicapped with no mods while the ZR1 gets mods so that it can win. Almost sounds like what the various racing organizations do to restrict Vipers so other marques can be competitive lol.

 

[Luvgoinfast]

I think this was the best one since they didn't even acknowledge it at all lol
OneRareViper
"So let me clarify. You're saying a 100% OEM stock ZR1 except tires (JUST TIRES) (say slicks or 80 compound) is faster than a 2010 ACR (with slicks or 80 compound) on a well rounded road course? Just want to make sure I understand 100% what you're saying as I bet I could drum up a couple accomplished ACR owners/drivers that beg to differ. And may be willing to take you up on that challenge. It would be interesting to say the least.

Also, I'm a bit surprised if this is your honest opinion after seeing what a (I think) stock ACR did at the Virginia Hill Climb with a first time driver (C&D editor) at this event.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this stock ACR with a less accomplished driver beat your time by 2+ seconds? Sure, it did have stock 80 compound tires (100 was the minimum). But yours ran on 100 compound Toyo Proxis RA1. No? In other words, not much difference in tires. Plus didn't your ZR1 have 40K in labor/parts/mods? Seriously, I'm not trying to stir the ***, just want to understand your point of view. It seems this race contradicts everything you've said above (i.e. - ZR1 being faster with tires only, and "no contest" with simple mods).

2010 year model, 2200 miles, 1ZR, mod list is as follows:
LG Super Pro Headers
LPE Upper
ATI lower
engine calibration for 93 pump gas and 100 octane
Tilton triple carbon clutch
custom lightweight flywheel for LS9
Forgeline EV1 wheels
stock wheels included
harness bar
5 point harness
4" carbon splitter
splitter spill plates
ALMS GT2 carbon wing with slide in wicker
ALMS GT2 wing struts
new bumper cut, factory OEM bumper included
Urethane bushings upper and lower, all corners

car made 620/630 rwhp on 13psi on a conservative race tune with IAT1 @ 110 degrees.


VIDEOS:

Highly tuned/moded (see above) ZR1 with soft 100 compound Toyo Proxis RA1:

3:21.79 time:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IHI8P_LXao[/media]

Stock ACR with soft stock 80 compound Michelin Sport Cups:

3:19.4 time:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wllfx...layer_embedded "

 

[Brake Dust]

I Whould Take That Zr1 Over Any Viper Because It Is Slower, There For It Is Safer?

 

[97snk]

There's a lot of members in TX who race professionally, I hope someone goes out with their ACR to close the topic...

 

[plumcrazy]

calling ACRSteve.....

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

And Im sure the Porsche forum guys will have top bragging rights with the new Porsche Gt2 RS. Its on sale now albeit pricey and cant wait to see the car magazines comparo on a road course and straight line stuff, never mind the fit and finish and handling.

 

[Black Moon]

I thought the ACR was a stripped down 'race car' where as the ZR1 is a street car. Why even compare the two?

 

[TrackAire]

Lou Gigliotti is a real deal racer. Im shocked to hear him say that with just tires the ZR1 would beat the ACR. Makes me wonder, with his racing experience, if he has tested both unbiasly to come to that conclusion.

Well hopefully someone with a 2010 ACR, that can drive on his level, takes the call out.

Debates that start with "If I add this mod and that mod to car X then car Y [stocker of course] is toast" are laughable. You are modding one car while bench racing it with mods vs a stocker. Im actually shocked at Lou for these statements. Dont know him personally but from seeing him race all these years Id have figured he'd be above this type of nonsense unless its just friendly ribbing to stir up an entertaining challenge.

I think Lou "was" a racer.....now a businessman pimping GM parts and the Vette is one of the main vehicles he sells parts for.

It would not make ecomomic sense for him to praise the Viper, regardless if it is faster or not.

Cheers,
George

 

[FLATOUT]

Damn Keating and Bernie Katz are local and have a little experience racing Vipers.

 

[shooter_t1]

And Im sure the Porsche forum guys will have top bragging rights with the new Porsche Gt2 RS. Its on sale now albeit pricey and cant wait to see the car magazines comparo on a road course and straight line stuff, never mind the fit and finish and handling.

Well, considering the fact that it took Porsche 2 full days of laps, as opposed to the 5 laps made by the SRT team, not too much to brag about. Now lets get a 2010 ACR on that track and spend 2 full days...I bet 2 seconds faster then the Porsche.

 

[bigmack339]

That ACR is no joke. The funny thing about Corvettes is the arrogance displayed by the owners.

 

[Kala]

This guy gets it... I totally agree with him on this...
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Quote "JDRacing"

Wow, so many personal attacks.

Let's not forget that if it weren't for the Viper, there would be no ZR1, and if it weren't for the Z06 there wouldn't be a 4th generation Viper. And if it weren't for the ZR1, there wouldn't be an ACR that could lap Laguna in under 1:33, which is crazy fast for a street car, track tires or no.

We, who are spending an inordinate amount of time attacking each other's rides and each other, are the complete winners here. Lost in all of this is that it's just a great time to be an American car enthusiast.

You must be registered for see images

If there's any doubt in your mind about this, then just remember the late 70's and the 80's, if you're old enough.

Perhaps it's time we start acting like it and stop demeaning each other (not to mention these world class cars that have the performance capabilities of Enzos and LP-670s). __________________

 

[goldcup]

I agree with Kala let it be Corvette guys until your best stock car can beat the best stock Viper quit pontificating, your car is gorgeous and fast just not the fastest on the block!No harm there gives ya something to shoot for.

 

[Kala]

I did post one of the challenges made on the Vette board to my local So Cal board... Dude wanted someone with an ACR to beat the Vette record at Spring Mountain... The time was 1:40 NARRA will be there as well as the So Cal Club, but I doubt they are gonna be running the small track LOL

 

[redlineviper]

Why compare the ZR1 to the ACR? Because the ACR is the current top dog, it's really flattery in the basic sense. For anyone the think he would be unbiased when he is a long time corvette enthusiast is silly. I have driven the ZR1 and can say it's a great all around car, but come track day the ACR is clearly more at home from the factory.

 

[Magnus_]

That ACR is no joke. The funny thing about Corvettes is the arrogance displayed by the owners.

Lot of arrogance here too.

Someone mentioned how the ZR1 costs more than the viper, and that 10-20K should be put into superchargers, carbon fiber, etc.. What about putting that money into the driving aids the vette has that the viper doesn't, or the comforts, luxury, etc.. that the zr1 has over the acr.

Stock vs Stock, the ACR is proven faster by a fraction.
Put the same tires on each car, and the corvette could be faster.
Same tires + removing those creature comforts on the ZR1 = faster ZR1 (and much ligher than the acr at that)
All above + Put the supercharger on the ACR = probably faster ACR

There are things you can do to either car to make it faster and give it an edge over the other.

At the end of the day though, when there are so many more corvette drivers that actually track their car on a road course, its kinda pointless for viper guys to hold on to a 2 second victory when they themselves have never put their car on a road course.

I track my viper almost every other weekend, and only once did I see an ACR-X put in a session. The last time I saw another viper on the road course was 2 years ago. I see at LEAST one corvette EVERY TIME I'm on the course. In may cases, its 10+ corvettes to my 1 viper.

At the amateur level, regardless of what model corvette or viper you have, at the track it simply comes down to your racing line, traction and HP. Any one can band-aid another. If you have the line figured out and want to go faster, you either put on better tires or add more HP. And since the ZR1 doesn't race in ANY competitive series, it doesn't make any sense to compare the cars in a spec class.

For the record, I have a C5 Z06, and contemplated buying a C6 Z06. However, as C5 simply collects dust in the garage, I see no point in buying another corvette that will just like every other corvette on the road, base model to ZR1.

 

[Kala]

Magnus, I think the ACR-X just hasn't been out long enough and there aren't that many of them built. The Viper Cup series is going on right now, I would bet most people who bought an X are competing with other X's... Just a thought.
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To me it's really time to stop the bench racing between American brands. Take which ever car you own to the track and have some fun. A win this week might be a loss next week. That's just the way it goes...

So how about this...

Two American Supercars putting the smack down on any Import we can. One probably wouldn't have happened without the other. We don't have to love each others cars. A little ribbing in jest is fun, but these threads on both Viper and Vette forums get totally out of hand with name calling and BS.

I don't want a Vette... I don't expect a Vette owner to want a Viper.

They are two different cars. Enough already...

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

What a surprise he is propping ZR1 Mods.
LG Motorsports

 

[TrackAire]

What a surprise he is propping ZR1 Mods.
LG Motorsports

You mean like his $27,595.00 sequential shifter trans option?


Cheers,
George

 

[BigDawg]

Magnus, I think the ACR-X just hasn't been out long enough and there aren't that many of them built. The Viper Cup series is going on right now, I would bet most people who bought an X are competing with other X's... Just a thought.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

To me it's really time to stop the bench racing between American brands. Take which ever car you own to the track and have some fun. A win this week might be a loss next week. That's just the way it goes...

So how about this...

Two American Supercars putting the smack down on any Import we can. One probably wouldn't have happened without the other. We don't have to love each others cars. A little ribbing in jest is fun, but these threads on both Viper and Vette forums get totally out of hand with name calling and BS.

I don't want a Vette... I don't expect a Vette owner to want a Viper.

They are two different cars. Enough already...

Saleen S7 = American Supercar
SSC Ultimate Aero = American Supercar

Ford GT = American Exotic
Viper = American Exotic
Any Vette = American Sports Car

Sorry just had to clarify, the term "supercar" is going viral and I have made it my mission to clear up misconceptions.

 

[Magnus_]

As I said, arrogance.

Lou is a ********* racer. He's all about building cars and race parts, and proves those parts on his track cars that compete in actual series. He has more real world race experience than probably all of us in this thread combined, then multiplied by 1000.

Lou's a straight shooter. I'm pretty sure he's just telling you like it is, as he sees it.

Track, try finding a cheaper sequential RACE trans. Racing at the level he does is very expensive. Watch some ALMS and look at C6R's. Every component is top dollar, state of the art engineering, super light, and expensive. That's the nature of competitive racing.

There sure is a lot of arrogance on the corvetteforum, but there sure is a lot here too. The viper guys challenging Lou on the corvette forum is just plain sad. It just makes us look bad.

FYI i just posted over there as Keith@HPTuners

 

[Malu59RT]

I know Lou's son Louis, and he's a part of one of our local racing forums, etc. As has been stated before, Corvette's are their main cash cow, so no doubt that he's gonna push for them. I would personally love to see Ben Keating go against Lou Gigliotti at a track. ACR vs. stock ZR1...both as they come from the factory. Someone make it happen!!

 

[Black Mamba]

As I said, arrogance.

Lou is a ********* racer. He's all about building cars and race parts, and proves those parts on his track cars that compete in actual series. He has more real world race experience than probably all of us in this thread combined, then multiplied by 1000.

Lou's a straight shooter. I'm pretty sure he's just telling you like it is, as he sees it.

Track, try finding a cheaper sequential RACE trans. Racing at the level he does is very expensive. Watch some ALMS and look at C6R's. Every component is top dollar, state of the art engineering, super light, and expensive. That's the nature of competitive racing.

There sure is a lot of arrogance on the corvetteforum, but there sure is a lot here too. The viper guys challenging Lou on the corvette forum is just plain sad. It just makes us look bad.

FYI i just posted over there as Keith@HPTuners

I haven't seen any Viper guys disrespect or challenge Lou. They are just asking him to support his claim that the ZR1 is a faster/better track car.


VVVVV------

 

[gb66gth]

Lou's a hasbeen!
Plus, he's in the 'Vette tuner & parts biz.
Up yours Lou!

 

[vancouver-gts]

I don't see the point in racing a modified ZR1 against a stock ACR . This Lou guy may have a lot more mods in his car than what he let out on his spec sheet. Remember the shootout on Speedvision between the two Porsches ? The Techart Porsche lost badly at the finish line against the home built/tuned one . The guy wouldn't disclose on the show what's he got in his engine. Back in the old days guys were using Nos cheater systems for bragging rights ,so I'm not interested in a race between two cars ,unless they're bone stock .I'd also make Paul Tracy and Tanner Faust on Speedvision to switch cars to be fair to the manufacturers .

 

[Kala]

Lou's a hasbeen!
Plus, he's in the 'Vette tuner & parts biz.
Up yours Lou!

He's in Texas... Go take him up on his offer