Designing the composite hood

[ViperSmith]

Yea but do you see how the Agera in the unpainted form is all carbon fiber. Then they use the actual twill weave on the small parts? For the body parts which are not twill weave is that part plastic? I don't think so. I say CFRP is cutting corners because that is what they put on the stingray for 50k. So because the viper has 3 parts made out of this justifies such a high price for what? I'm starting to wonder where is the money going???? At this point the only thing exotic is the interior and the paint job. Though I'm hoping info doesn't come out to make those seem less than what they are.

And nothing on the viper is better than the agera. Christian is a pioneer in engineering no one can touch him in the automotive industry.

Our resident expert on everything is giving us more lessons in everything.

Little economic lesson for you, price has nothing to do with cost. Price is what someone will pay for a product or service - it has nothing to do with costs.

Now, fill us in more with your expansive knowledge of materials science and engineering.

 

[Pythonpete]

Yea but do you see how the Agera in the unpainted form is all carbon fiber. Then they use the actual twill weave on the small parts? For the body parts which are not twill weave is that part plastic? I don't think so. I say CFRP is cutting corners because that is what they put on the stingray for 50k. So because the viper has 3 parts made out of this justifies such a high price for what? I'm starting to wonder where is the money going???? At this point the only thing exotic is the interior and the paint job. Though I'm hoping info doesn't come out to make those seem less than what they are.

And nothing on the viper is better than the agera. Christian is a pioneer in engineering no one can touch him in the automotive industry.

The Aventador must be garbage too because it's made out of CFRP too. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/14/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-4-bares-its-carbon-fiber-monocoque/

How do I put someone on ignore?

 

[Pythonpete]

La Ferarri also made out of CFRP

http://www.0-60mag.com/news/2012/04/ferrari-enzo-replacement-will-be-quicker-than-a-veyron/

McLaren too? What's this world coming to?

http://www.speautomotive.com/pdfs/1...note to Discuss CFRP Monocell at SPE ACCE.pdf

That's because CFRP IS CARBON FIBER

 

[ViperSmith]

La Ferarri also made out of CFRP

http://www.0-60mag.com/news/2012/04/ferrari-enzo-replacement-will-be-quicker-than-a-veyron/

McLaren too? What's this world coming to?

http://www.speautomotive.com/pdfs/1...note to Discuss CFRP Monocell at SPE ACCE.pdf

That's because CFRP IS CARBON FIBER

All cheap garbage

LOL

 

[SRTviper]

Our resident expert on everything is giving us more lessons in everything.

Little economic lesson for you, price has nothing to do with cost. Price is what someone will pay for a product or service - it has nothing to do with costs.

Now, fill us in more with your expansive knowledge of materials science and engineering.

You are just dumb. If people thought that way then all businesses in this country would be out of business. There has to be some value in any price to justify it. Sorry but the viper name is not enough to warrant what an extra 100k? Does it have a better frame than the vette? No. A better suspension? HELL NO. Exotic shape? The viper looks nicer but the c7 is pretty exotic looking too. Viper has a better interior but you pay 7500 for it. More power but my 55k car has more HP than the viper. So please tell me where is the value?

The Aventador must be garbage too because it's made out of CFRP too. http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/14/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-4-bares-its-carbon-fiber-monocoque/

How do I put someone on ignore?

The lambo monoqoue (which I am sure I spelled wrong) is 100% carbon fiber. The rest could be CFRP. They aren't the same.

La Ferarri also made out of CFRP

http://www.0-60mag.com/news/2012/04/ferrari-enzo-replacement-will-be-quicker-than-a-veyron/

McLaren too? What's this world coming to?

http://www.speautomotive.com/pdfs/1...note to Discuss CFRP Monocell at SPE ACCE.pdf

That's because CFRP IS CARBON FIBER

Those cars are expensive because of the tech in them and again all the shells are 100% carbon fiber with CFRP in it as well. I think only the bugatti, pagani, and koengsegg are full blown 100% carbon fiber. If CFRP is carbon fiber and the stingray almost completely built from it then is a steal at 50k and the whole world is out of control charging 300k to 1 million for that stuff. I wonder then why a hood from plasan for one car is 15k but for the new viper then it is 3k when the new viper hood is the largest production piece on an american car. 1+1 doesn't equal 2 there.

 

[JETSTAR]

Yea but do you see how the Agera in the unpainted form is all carbon fiber. Then they use the actual twill weave on the small parts? For the body parts which are not twill weave is that part plastic? I don't think so. I say CFRP is cutting corners because that is what they put on the stingray for 50k. So because the viper has 3 parts made out of this justifies such a high price for what? I'm starting to wonder where is the money going???? At this point the only thing exotic is the interior and the paint job. Though I'm hoping info doesn't come out to make those seem less than what they are.

And nothing on the viper is better than the agera. Christian is a pioneer in engineering no one can touch him in the automotive industry.

No doubt The Agera is awesome but as Christian knows all to well the R&D and tooling cost is not much different whether you build 100 cars a year like him 1800 cars like the viper or 30,000 like the C7. Corvette would not have built the hood like the Viper its just to complicated they would change the design to make it more production friendly and cost efficient. I build custom Corvettes for people. We build fiberglass and carbon fiber fenders, hoods, spoilers so I know the challenges they encountered building this car. I am also a certified A&P mechanic with a lot of composite training for both helicopter and aircraft I work with prepreg and wet layup.
If Viper doesn't get there act together soon I may start pulling some molds off my car and start building my own carbon fiber appearance package and aero kit I'm thinking a full front splliter though not the little ones they make. The rear spoiler has potential I think but still looks like something is missing.

here are some pictures of a car we just finished

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[Nine Ball]

SRTViper, you are playing know-it-all again. I guess the CFRP body of the Lamborghini Aventador is garbage too, right? CARBON FIBER REINFORCED POLYMER. It is not "Fiberglass". It is a structural polymer with carbon fiber strands in it. While it isn't as pretty as the fancy twill weave cloth, it does retain the strength and light weight properties. It isn't intended for cosmetic purposes. They put the twill layer on the underside for the costmetic reasons.

I toured the Lambo plant earlier this year, nearly the entire $450,000 Aventador is made of the "ugly" CFRP carbon fiber. I guess that car is crap, too, eh?

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/201...e-carbon-fiber-shell-18825.html#axzz2cNORUDPQ
http://www.caradvice.com.au/106327/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-body-and-rolling-shell-revealed/

Anyone else wish this rich kid would just go away? Probably a politician's son.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I will have to do some more research also there is no way that they can sell this hood for $3000.00 cant be done. I bet it is 15 to 20k

I bet you are 15k+ over on your guess. List price is $3,070

http://www.partswebsite.com/dcjparts/oemparts/dodge-120/68110741AC-.html

SRT hood - Mopar part number 68139366AC
GTS hood - Mopar part number 68110741AC

 

[ViperSmith]

SRTViper, you are playing know-it-all again. I guess the CFRP body of the Lamborghini Aventador is garbage too, right? CARBON FIBER REINFORCED POLYMER. It is not "Fiberglass". It is a structural polymer with carbon fiber strands in it. While it isn't as pretty as the fancy twill weave cloth, it does retain the strength and light weight properties. It isn't intended for cosmetic purposes. They put the twill layer on the underside for the costmetic reasons.

I toured the Lambo plant earlier this year, nearly the entire $450,000 Aventador is made of the "ugly" CFRP carbon fiber. I guess that car is crap, too, eh?

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/201...e-carbon-fiber-shell-18825.html#axzz2cNORUDPQ
http://www.caradvice.com.au/106327/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-body-and-rolling-shell-revealed/

Anyone else wish this rich kid would just go away? Probably a politician's son.

Another thread ruined by insane jibber jabber of no useful info by the normal crowd.

 

[PeterMJ]

You sure? The video of the lexus LFA carbon fiber or koengisegg just shows them as a greenish black solid part with no twill weave (2x2) or single dot weave that ferrari and porsche uses (1x1). The carbon fiber driveshaft on my shelby is the same. You can see the strands of the carbon fiber as if it is hair almost but there is no weave like on the zr1 carbon fiber or porsche/ferrari carbon fiber.

You are correct about LFA not using a CF weave, it uses proprietary LOOM to interlock the fibers. If I recall, it is circular loom. This is why you do not see the weave as you see on the Viper. BTW, the hood is full CF. The hood is called composite because it has inner and outer parts bonded together, both using pre preg CF sheet and then glued together. The structural inner part is plain weave if I remember correctly, because it is stronger. The cross brace is made the same way. The rear of the latest Viper though, except for the trunk lid/hatch is the regular SMC which is actually not all that much heavier than CF and considerably lighter than FRP.

Plasan uses their own method of pressing pre preg into shape without autoclave because it would cost more money and the production was really aimed at mass produced Corvette. Pretty interesting process actually.

 

[SRTviper]

No doubt The Agera is awesome but as Christian knows all to well the R&D and tooling cost is not much different whether you build 100 cars a year like him 1800 cars like the viper or 30,000 like the C7. Corvette would not have built the hood like the Viper its just to complicated they would change the design to make it more production friendly and cost efficient. I build custom Corvettes for people. We build fiberglass and carbon fiber fenders, hoods, spoilers so I know the challenges they encountered building this car. I am also a certified A&P mechanic with a lot of composite training for both helicopter and aircraft I work with prepreg and wet layup.
If Viper doesn't get there act together soon I may start pulling some molds off my car and start building my own carbon fiber appearance package and aero kit I'm thinking a full front splliter though not the little ones they make. The rear spoiler has potential I think but still looks like something is missing.

here are some pictures of a car we just finished

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Nice vette.

SRTViper, you are playing know-it-all again. I guess the CFRP body of the Lamborghini Aventador is garbage too, right? CARBON FIBER REINFORCED POLYMER. It is not "Fiberglass". It is a structural polymer with carbon fiber strands in it. While it isn't as pretty as the fancy twill weave cloth, it does retain the strength and light weight properties. It isn't intended for cosmetic purposes. They put the twill layer on the underside for the costmetic reasons.

I toured the Lambo plant earlier this year, nearly the entire $450,000 Aventador is made of the "ugly" CFRP carbon fiber. I guess that car is crap, too, eh?

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/201...e-carbon-fiber-shell-18825.html#axzz2cNORUDPQ
http://www.caradvice.com.au/106327/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-body-and-rolling-shell-revealed/

Anyone else wish this rich kid would just go away? Probably a politician's son.

I'm not but ok. All I am saying something is obviously not correct if the hood cost 3k. My tiny driveshaft cost 1500.

 

[Nine Ball]

Sorry to hear about your tiny driveshaft. Size matters.

 

[PeterMJ]

SRTViper, you are playing know-it-all again. I guess the CFRP body of the Lamborghini Aventador is garbage too, right? CARBON FIBER REINFORCED POLYMER. It is not "Fiberglass". It is a structural polymer with carbon fiber strands in it. While it isn't as pretty as the fancy twill weave cloth, it does retain the strength and light weight properties. It isn't intended for cosmetic purposes. They put the twill layer on the underside for the costmetic reasons.

I toured the Lambo plant earlier this year, nearly the entire $450,000 Aventador is made of the "ugly" CFRP carbon fiber. I guess that car is crap, too, eh?

http://rumors.automobilemag.com/201...e-carbon-fiber-shell-18825.html#axzz2cNORUDPQ
http://www.caradvice.com.au/106327/lamborghini-aventador-lp700-body-and-rolling-shell-revealed/

Anyone else wish this rich kid would just go away? Probably a politician's son.

Do you actually understand what you quote? A case of kettle calling the *** black for sure. LOL

 

[Nine Ball]

Do you actually understand what you quote? A case of kettle calling the *** black for sure. LOL

I apologize for not being 100% technically accurate, when dealing with trolls. Should I spend more time on my anti-trolling skills? Thanks for the advice!

 

[PeterMJ]

I apologize for not being 100% technically accurate, when dealing with trolls. Should I spend more time on my anti-trolling skills? Thanks for the advice!

Reading up on the subject and comprehending what you read before throwing it in someone's face could be a great start There are many similarities between SMC and FCRP, with the main difference FCRP uses pre preg sheets unlike SMC. You should be able to find SMC on your new car BTW rather easily

 

[SRTviper]

This is the last time I'm going to post in this thread and then you guys can argue about how CFRP is the same as complete carbon fiber when it isn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp_qxKWMsVw

Look at this video of the agera R carbon fiber creation. You see Christian clearly pulls out the carbon fiber how it comes packed to him which is the pre preg weave. What is pre preg? Well it is carbon fiber with the resin infused in it already. Why is it like this? Greater strength and consistency in the resin. Now as I already showed in the last video but this one does it too, you can clearly see it takes the pre preg sheets (THAT HAVE NO PLASTIC ON THEM) and sticks them in the billet aluminum mold (WITH AGAIN NO PLASTIC TO BE SEEN) and then sticks it in the oven and there you go. That is why you see the weave on the inside and the outside. Usually the inside of CF parts that are CFRP have no weave coming through on the inside. ONCE AGAIN THERE IS NO PLASTIC AT ALL IN THE PRODUCTION OF THESE PARTS IN FULL CARBON FIBER.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZrOxQ1V6bQ

Here is a video of CARBON FIBER REINFORCED PLASTIC in the BMW factory. As you can see the strands of carbon fiber are attached to the fiberglass/plastic/whatever part and then thrown into the oven and then they spray the primer and paint it. THIS MAKES SENSE SINCE IF YOU LOOK AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR HOODS AND IF YOU AREN'T BLIND YOU CAN SEE HOW THE WEAVE LOOKS STUCK ON BECAUSE IT IS.

Now if the same morons care to keep arguing about the differences I can keep posting videos showing how you guys don't know what you are talking about. Good day.

 

[mnc2886]

You are just dumb. If people thought that way then all businesses in this country would be out of business. There has to be some value in any price to justify it. Sorry but the viper name is not enough to warrant what an extra 100k? Does it have a better frame than the vette? No. A better suspension? HELL NO. Exotic shape? The viper looks nicer but the c7 is pretty exotic looking too. Viper has a better interior but you pay 7500 for it. More power but my 55k car has more HP than the viper. So please tell me where is the value?



The lambo monoqoue (which I am sure I spelled wrong) is 100% carbon fiber. The rest could be CFRP. They aren't the same.



Those cars are expensive because of the tech in them and again all the shells are 100% carbon fiber with CFRP in it as well. I think only the bugatti, pagani, and koengsegg are full blown 100% carbon fiber. If CFRP is carbon fiber and the stingray almost completely built from it then is a steal at 50k and the whole world is out of control charging 300k to 1 million for that stuff. I wonder then why a hood from plasan for one car is 15k but for the new viper then it is 3k when the new viper hood is the largest production piece on an american car. 1+1 doesn't equal 2 there.

This post is further proof from the other thread that you driving a Viper was a waste. Look at you. You hate the damn car. Judging by how bad you wanted to drive it and now all this, it seems you're angry it was unobtainable for you for some reason and thus you must bash it to no end.

 

[JETSTAR]

I bet you are 15k+ over on your guess. List price is $3,070

http://www.partswebsite.com/dcjparts/oemparts/dodge-120/68110741AC-.html

Has anyone bought one that you know of?
I think I will try tomorrow

Also that website does not even list SRT the hood says Dodge p/n
Just doesn't seem like it can be either hood

 

[SRTviper]

This post is further proof from the other thread that you driving a Viper was a waste. Look at you. You hate the damn car. Judging by how bad you wanted to drive it and now all this, it seems you're angry it was unobtainable for you for some reason and thus you must bash it to no end.

No I'm just waiting to see how much lower I can push them on it since someone else just picked up a GTS for 14k off. I never said I hate the car. I just don't think it is worth it at 140k. I been saying that from day 1. All of this new info just further proves it. Lol the viper is not unobtainable for me though. But think what you will. To me, driving that car was invaluable, especially if it helps me make the proper decision. But as I said to someone else who PMed me about it, that particular one made me nervous because it made popping sounds from the left rear of it during sharp turning with the wheel all the way left or right.

 

[ViperSmith]

You are just dumb. If people thought that way then all businesses in this country would be out of business. There has to be some value in any price to justify it. Sorry but the viper name is not enough to warrant what an extra 100k? Does it have a better frame than the vette? No. A better suspension? HELL NO. Exotic shape? The viper looks nicer but the c7 is pretty exotic looking too. Viper has a better interior but you pay 7500 for it. More power but my 55k car has more HP than the viper. So please tell me where is the value?



The lambo monoqoue (which I am sure I spelled wrong) is 100% carbon fiber. The rest could be CFRP. They aren't the same.



Those cars are expensive because of the tech in them and again all the shells are 100% carbon fiber with CFRP in it as well. I think only the bugatti, pagani, and koengsegg are full blown 100% carbon fiber. If CFRP is carbon fiber and the stingray almost completely built from it then is a steal at 50k and the whole world is out of control charging 300k to 1 million for that stuff. I wonder then why a hood from plasan for one car is 15k but for the new viper then it is 3k when the new viper hood is the largest production piece on an american car. 1+1 doesn't equal 2 there.

When you are a bit older and your parents aren't paying for it all, you'll realize how little you know. Almost everyone eventually realizes it.

Cost and price have nothing to do with one another: http://www.ncsu.edu/project/calscommblogs/economic/archives/2008/06/price_versus_co.html - you are marking yourself look rather foolish by attacking others when all you base what you write on, are your own opinions.

Why does a $0.50 baked potato cost $11.00 at Ruths Chris? By your logic it is because the potato cost $10.00. When, economics dictates $11.00 is the max an individual will pay. Try again.

 

[SRTviper]

When you are a bit older and your parents aren't paying for it all, you'll realize how little you know. Almost everyone eventually realizes it.

Cost and price have nothing to do with one another: http://www.ncsu.edu/project/calscommblogs/economic/archives/2008/06/price_versus_co.html - you are marking yourself look rather foolish by attacking others when all you base what you write on, are your own opinions.

Why does a $0.50 baked potato cost $11.00 at Ruths Chris? By your logic it is because the potato cost $10.00. When, economics dictates $11.00 is the max an individual will pay. Try again.

The cheapest I have seen a baked potato with what Ruths Chris has to offer is like 7 bucks. So 4 dollar mark up is a little different than a 40k mark up. 2nd if I charged 50 dollars for the potato you would pay it? Third, if my parents were paying for me I wouldn't be on a viper forum asking about a viper and I'll just leave it at that.

 

[ViperSmith]

Ive got an idea. You should go run Chrysler. Clearly you could do Better to contain costs than Ralph - got what does that goober know. I bet you could get the price of the Viper below $25,000.

We'd all be so lucky. I bet they'd jump at a guy who could cut the cost if their cars by 80%. I know I would! Hurry and update your LinkedIn.

 

[ViperSmith]

I have Ralph's contact info - send me your résumé and ill forward it to him, I bet SRT would love a material sciences engineer that is also an economist, marketing specialist, and knows all around car stuff from Motor Trend.

Heck, they could fire 95% of their staff with just you. Imagine $25,000 Vipers on the street. You'd be the next Henry Ford.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Man does the Gen V section ****. Ugh..

 

[ViperSmith]

Man does the Gen V section ****. Ugh..

I don't see why it isn't being cleaned up.

I post an informative article to have a kid post trolling opinions in it which have no basis for fact or reality.

Perhaps I just need to log off for awhile.

 

[kratedisease]

The cheapest I have seen a baked potato with what Ruths Chris has to offer is like 7 bucks. So 4 dollar mark up is a little different than a 40k mark up. 2nd if I charged 50 dollars for the potato you would pay it? Third, if my parents were paying for me I wouldn't be on a viper forum asking about a viper and I'll just leave it at that.

Did some one say RUTH CHRIS ? YUMMY, I love their food. The steak is awesome and calamari is so fresh.... BUT ,

How the hell am I going to lose weight if you guys keep bringing up food in the discussion ?? Thanks for nothing !! I just ordered from Ruth Chris since you guys talking about it made me hungry.....

 

[chorps]

Did some one say RUTH CHRIS ? YUMMY, I love their food. The steak is awesome and calamari is so fresh.... BUT ,

How the hell am I going to loose weight if you guys keep bringing up food in the discussion ?? Thanks for nothing !! I just ordered from Ruth Chris since you guys talking about it made me hungry.....

Loose...not rigidly fastened or securely attached (opposite of tight).
Lose..be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something)

 

[kratedisease]

Loose...not rigidly fastened or securely attached (opposite of tight).
Lose..be deprived of or cease to have or retain (something)

Thanks.... its just that when people talk about food, my fingers quiver when I type.... Damn it, I'm never gonna fit in the Gen5... ( gonna is used in place of going to since it sounds more authentic)

 

[mnc2886]

The cheapest I have seen a baked potato with what Ruths Chris has to offer is like 7 bucks. So 4 dollar mark up is a little different than a 40k mark up. 2nd if I charged 50 dollars for the potato you would pay it? Third, if my parents were paying for me I wouldn't be on a viper forum asking about a viper and I'll just leave it at that.

Can someone explain to me how a $40k markup on a car that costs $100k is different that a $7 potato going to $11? If anything the potato getting one over on you more...

 

[ViperSmith]

Since this is a bit more of SRTViper's league:

The base Mustang costs $22,200

What exotic materials in the GT500 command the $55,000 MSRP?

Surely there must be $32,000 worth of something special in your car to command a $32,000 price difference.

Seeing as you can only justify cost as material costs (Since R&D is free!) - what are the cost differences in them? Is the block of a more exotic material?

Please, I'd love to hear. Remember, you can only price things by material cost!