08 SRT10 v ZR1 comments in Car and Driver article...

[Boxer12]

With minimal effort, Hennessey keeps the Viper ahead in the "mine’s bigger" race.
...And consider this: Not only does the ZR1 still lack the horsepower advantage, but for the first time in the Viper’s existence, the Dodge, with a starting price of $97,446 [referring to the Hennessey 650R package], is more affordable than the six-figure Corvette.

Here is the link to the complete article...
2008 Hennessey Venom 650R - Car News - Car and Driver December 2007

P.S.-I don't have a dog in the JohnH v 'others' fight, but I love READING about JohnH's cars in the mags...they're always so BA.

 

[black08]

Thanks Boxer...cool article. I wish we would see a 75 hp. package from Mopar soon.

 

[Boxer12]

Thanks Boxer...cool article. I wish we would see a 75 hp. package from Mopar soon.

No kidding...what the heck are they waiting for? Just giving the tuner shops a little room to make a few bucks? I really want to see it on the ACR!

 

[rtigert]

I really want to see it on the ACR!

Wait 2 weeks after mine arrives, and you will!

 

[RTTTTed]

I think a supercharged supercar should be a lot more than a measly 600+hp. I guess 600rwhp would be spectacular for a stocker with 100,000mi. warranty while still having enough power to put Porsches and Ferrari's on the trailer.

But, I think I'm still loving my 720rwhp Gen 2 Viper BEST! After racing a new Z06 recently, I think vette's need about 800hp before they start to worry me.

Ted

 

[MbnViper]

I think a supercharged supercar should be a lot more than a measly 600+hp. I guess 600rwhp would be spectacular for a stocker with 100,000mi. warranty while still having enough power to put Porsches and Ferrari's on the trailer.

But, I think I'm still loving my 720rwhp Gen 2 Viper BEST! After racing a new Z06 recently, I think vette's need about 800hp before they start to worry me.

Ted

car to share more details about the race ? stock ZO6 ?

 

[black08]

Wait 2 weeks after mine arrives, and you will!

rtigert, what mods are you planning for your ACR?

 

[rtigert]

rtigert, what mods are you planning for your ACR?

Everything that becomes available (short of forced induction)

Initially, full exhaust.

 

[RTTTTed]

car to share more details about the race ? stock ZO6 ?

Yah, stock new Z06. Gave him 2 lengths at 50mph in second, fishtailed past him, shifted into 3rd fishtailed in front of him and left him behind, like he was just driving with his foot off the gas.

Then I gave him 2 lengths at 50mph and when he started in 2nd, I floored it while I was in 4th at idle speed! Even race, we tied.

Ted

 

[Twister]

I was involved in a 3 way race between my 470 rwhp SRT10...Buddies 540 ROE GTS and buddies stock 455 rwhp C6Z06...

From 70-140 mph the Z06 pulled 2 cars on me and the GTS pulled 1.5 cars on him...

So with 720 rwhp you should have been running away

BTW..at our local drag strip with just the ROE my buddies car trapped 127-128 ( 138 mph with ROE/NOS/****)

So even with 127-128 mph trapps he still barely beat my friends C6Z06 by 1.5 cars

 

[elanderholm]

His prices are a joke. It will be nice when other tuners start turning out parts for the 08 viper at reasonable prices.

 

[RTTTTed]

The Roe problem is the traction. Even a 600rwhp Roe makes 644rwtq at 2,000rpm. Slicks is where they shine.

One huge advantage with the Roe is the Vec 3. Change pulleys or fuel and change the program with a smart card, don't need a dyno each time.

The Z06 race was a joke. Didn't realize the huge difference between 505 and 840hp (rated). It seemed like a lot more than double the power.

Ted

 

[Vipermann]

I think a supercharged supercar should be a lot more than a measly 600+hp.

This reminds me of my thoughts on the Ford GT. The car was ahead of it's time. Ford should have waited until 2006 to introduce a limited run through '09 (to commemerate the 1966 - 1969 wins at LeMans) ... if they had waited, they would have surely introduced that car with more than 550Hp, which now seems weak by comparison to today's cars.

 

[KenricGTS]

Yea and they do make more than 550 stock. Mine stone stock put down 551rwhp. a pulley and a tune and 652rwhp. Put a whipple and now we are talking 700-850rwhp

 

[MbnViper]

The Roe problem is the traction. Even a 600rwhp Roe makes 644rwtq at 2,000rpm. Slicks is where they shine.

One huge advantage with the Roe is the Vec 3. Change pulleys or fuel and change the program with a smart card, don't need a dyno each time.

The Z06 race was a joke. Didn't realize the huge difference between 505 and 840hp (rated). It seemed like a lot more than double the power.

Ted

thanks for sharing.

and i agree traction is limited when it comes to ROE S/C .

thats why i installed DR day 1

 

[bluestreak]

Comparing a modded car to a stock car, nice.

and a Hennessey modded car at that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[RTTTTed]

I agree with you, but they seem to be comparig prices first - mods second. If they used an open field they could have compared a $225,000 Hennessey Venom 1000R and compared that to a million dollar + Veyron. That would be cool. I think the Hennesey would maybe be faster, but that Veyron "air brake" would probably cause the competition win to go to the Veyron. Judging from the many magazine articles where the Z06 wins, the Hennessey would come in the overall winner, since it costs about 25% of the Veyron (not including all the new "green" and you've got too much money taxes).

I'm still pissed that my car cost only $55,000 and the taxes were an extra $9,000!

I understand that the Ford GT was dropped because of side impact ratings and I agree it's too bad they aren't made anymore. I'm wishing that Ford would make the GT2 as it seems a lot nicer supercar than even the GT. I also think it's the only car I enjoy the looks of more than the Gen 2 Viper.

Ted

 

[SnakeBitten]

This reminds me of my thoughts on the Ford GT. The car was ahead of it's time. Ford should have waited until 2006 to introduce a limited run through '09 (to commemerate the 1966 - 1969 wins at LeMans) ... if they had waited, they would have surely introduced that car with more than 550Hp, which now seems weak by comparison to today's cars.

I read somewhere that they did this to avoid the new crash standards....According to what I remember they would not have been able to certify the GT shape under the new crash standards....

Would have been nice to see them at Le Mans also.....Such a shame to waste such an opportunity to race and beat Ferrari again....The world would have loved to see that..Not to mention the priceless pr that would have brought the brand...MOFOCO dropped the ball big time imho..

BTW on topic........That article doesnt take into account how cheap it would be for a ZR1 owner to swap pulleys or do an exhaust/header change...Its just silly to compare modded car vs a stock car in most cases....The Veyron is the exception as you just cant bring something stock for that wretched beast....Ive also heard the 620hp number for the ZR1 isnt final yet...It surely will be no less than 620hp which was the point of the initial specs release from what Ive read....

 

[RTTTTed]

Yah, the ZR1 is just oneupmanship and not something GM wants to build. I think they're just getting tired of being losers.

Yes, the can change pulley and exhaust, but the 08 Viper owners can add a supercharger to get back to 'equal' and all comparisons will be gone ... again.

No matter what they do to it, it's still just a vette. All Vipers are FAST, not just some models, some years, some modified. The first vettes came with less than 200hp and when Dodge started building the Viper with 400hp the vette was done to about 270hp? Dodge NEVER built a Viper with less than 400hp and they don't offer any ordinary engines or automatics. Hence the term Supercar. Vettes have offered lookers for the most part and until Dodge Vipers their vettes didn't hold much of a candle to Porsches or Ferraris. I'm glad they don't have to hold up North America's Musclecar image any longer. Left to themselves they would have been building 4 cylinder vettes nowadays.

Ted

Ted

 

[Twister]

Well said RTTTTed....

A agree whole heartedly...

My buddies C6Z06 beat my 2003 SRT10 by 2 cars from 70-140 mph..Yes his car is faster ( even though I can take him from a dead stop)....

But Ive seen 1-2 C6's and numerous c5's every day for the past year since he got his c6Z06...

This is my second Viper and in the two years of viper ownership ive seen 3 other vipers....

For every 1 C6Z06 out there...There's 10 base C5's/C6's that have 345-436 HP...The 1996 GTS or 1997 RT10 have very little to worry about with these vettes...

 

[Boxer12]

Comparing a modded car to a stock car, nice.

and a Hennessey modded car at that. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

So, you think its an invalid comparison? Doesn't the ZR1 have carbon brakes? You think headers will make the difference and put the ZR1 ahead? (I don't think so...) That (exhaust sys, two piece rotors) is all the performance 'mods' that the Hennessey car has on it dude. The rest of the $$$$ accounts for labor and a zillion badges and some carpet mats! I imagine if you drop the cost of the 'nonperformance' so-called extras into even more weight saving parts, that would put the Viper even further out in front for your $100K!

 

[bluestreak]

So, you think its an invalid comparison? Doesn't the ZR1 have carbon brakes? You think headers will make the difference and put the ZR1 ahead? (I don't think so...) That (exhaust sys, two piece rotors) is all the performance 'mods' that the Hennessey car has on it dude. The rest of the $$$$ accounts for labor and a zillion badges and some carpet mats! I imagine if you drop the cost of the 'nonperformance' so-called extras into even more weight saving parts, that would put the Viper even further out in front for your $100K!

You are missing the point. Vette vs Viper is and always has been head to head. Whoever has been the fastest stock has just plain been the fastest. The most you could say is going with the 675 hp mopar option because it is a factory option. But what you ARE saying is like taking a lingenfelter base Z06 vs the base SRT 10. For that matter buy an evo and put 50k in it. Or a Civic and 80k. Then try and take them all in for warranty work and see which one wins. Now do you get it?

 

[Camfab]

If the comparison is'nt stock for stock it's just invalid. If your going there, I'll bet a pulley change and some minor tuning for a grand will yield another 100+hp out of the Vette. This is'nt going to be some cake walk.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Yah, the ZR1 is just oneupmanship and not something GM wants to build. I think they're just getting tired of being losers.

Yes, the can change pulley and exhaust, but the 08 Viper owners can add a supercharger to get back to 'equal' and all comparisons will be gone ... again.

Ted

Ted

Stock to stock is where the King of the Hill is determined...Mods are a different argument....I can bring a modded Civic blah blah blah you know the rest....Its silly to claim a car is wacked when you have to mod yours to hang with it stock...Just as silly as when the Vette guys[pre Z06] were talking shyte to Viper owners when they had to do extensive mods just to hang with a bonestock GTS......Stock to stock the ZR1 better be faster given its price, extensive use of exotic materials, marketing hype etc......

I personally think it will top out over 210mph and should be faster than both Vipers in a straight line....Especially the ACR as its top speed is limited due to aero....On a roadcourse though I dont see it beating the ACR...Some of the Chevy guys are already crying foul because they are not in the same class so the ZR1 should only be compared to the regular Viper...Very convenient logic to me as I think they realize the ACR means business...

BTW we dont know what the new Viper motor can handle boost wise with all the new tech put into it do we?.......Its a sure bet the ZR1's will be able to handle more than its stock levels of boost since it was designed with boost in mind....So just saying you can just slap a SC on an 08 Viper to counteract the ZR1 is pure vaporware until someone figures out how boost will work on this new setup....So until then I think pullied [modded] ZR1's may have the advantage until the 08's hardware is sorted out by the tuners. I am aware of the 70hp gains on exhaust/headers on the 08 Vipers but we all know what pullies do on a SC setup ie FGT....When they do figure it out it will be the usual can of whup *** when teamed up with boost or heads and cam......But until then my opinion is the ZR1 will have an edge mod wise.....

 

[Boxer12]

Hmmm....personally, I don't think adding headers and light weight rotors is the same as adding a pully or changing gear ratios in a car...etc, but I see your argument. Stock is stock and anything else is not stock. Ok, but still...I think the comparison is valid. Change the pulley, and that is a valid comparison also. I would be interested to read that one too! Give both cars a $100k budget, and make all the changes you want, that is a valid comparison too.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Hmmm....personally, I don't think adding headers and light weight rotors is the same as adding a pully or changing gear ratios in a car...etc, but I see your argument. Stock is stock and anything else is not stock. Ok, but still...I think the comparison is valid. Change the pulley, and that is a valid comparison also. I would be interested to read that one too! Give both cars a $100k budget, and make all the changes you want, that is a valid comparison too.

Agreed...Stock to stock = Valid.....Modded vs Stock = invalid but good for discussion...It shouldnt be taken seriously as proof of modded cars superiority.....In your scenario of 100k for both the edge would be for the Viper imho...More cubes plus boost is hard to beat....

 

[Warfang]

You are missing the point. Vette vs Viper is and always has been head to head. ?

Always? For 12 years, the vette was asleep at the wheel.

 

[Warfang]

Stock to stock is where the King of the Hill is determined...Mods are a different argument....I can bring a modded Civic blah blah blah you know the rest....Its silly to claim a car is wacked when you have to mod yours to hang with it stock....

Anyone that stands by that argument need to stop right now, because there is NO SUCH THING AS A STOCK ZR1. It doesn't exist. Stock for stock should mean what's available to purchase NOW. Comparing a shipped car to a concept pie-in-the-sky-not-ready-for-prime-time car is as silly as comparing a stock car to a modded one.

Until it's greenlit and on it's way to customer's hands... it means nothing to me. Everything else is just speculation.

 

[ViperTony]

Hmmm....personally, I don't think adding headers and light weight rotors is the same as adding a pully or changing gear ratios in a car...etc, but I see your argument. Stock is stock and anything else is not stock. Ok, but still...I think the comparison is valid. Change the pulley, and that is a valid comparison also. I would be interested to read that one too! Give both cars a $100k budget, and make all the changes you want, that is a valid comparison too.

You won't be seeing a pulley change on the ZR-1 anytime soon. Regarding changing the pulley, Meegan was quoted in an Edmunds article as saying "We don't want people to do that. We have not made that easy." Now there's a statement.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Anyone that stands by that argument need to stop right now, because there is NO SUCH THING AS A STOCK ZR1. It doesn't exist. Stock for stock should mean what's available to purchase NOW. Comparing a shipped car to a concept pie-in-the-sky-not-ready-for-prime-time car is as silly as comparing a stock car to a modded one.

Until it's greenlit and on it's way to customer's hands... it means nothing to me. Everything else is just speculation.

You cant be serious can you???Riiight you stick your head in the sand and pretend that it doesnt exist because its not on sale officially yet....Im sure you didnt compare the preproduction numbers of the 08 Viper vs the production Z06 like the rest of us right???Or does your rule only apply to Vettes ....Your argument is pointless...