1st track test

[ViperSmith]

I have no doubt this car will hit 3.0, but that is with someone that knows how to drive it.

You won't see everyone hitting it like you can with a AWD turbo S, because they are virtually turn key.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Why bother coming out with a new viper that wont even beat a ZR1? Sure it looks great but why come out with a NEW car that gets beat by most of it competitors. This with a three year hiatus.....I was expecting it to be close to the 458 in performance numbers.

If your gonna come out with a "track monster" that under performs at the drag strip then.....COME OUT WITH TRACK RECORD TIMES FIRST!!!! Laguna seca, watkins, road atlanta, miller, the Ring, whatever. The drag strip times would then be secondary. I guarantee this is no surprise to SRT. Come on guys!!

Ok, I feel better now..

This makes sense to me. It reminds me of Lexus with the LF-A. 10 year gestation to come out with "straight line" performance that was not competitive with current entry level supercars/exotics but with a hyper exotic price tag.

Well the Viper was a 3 year gestation and has "straight line" performance that seems will lag the tops in the industry and its commanding a premium for the top model. I don't like the parallels to the LF-A but they are there. The only parallel I like between the two is that the LF-A made up for its "straight line" negatives with top shelf circuit track times. Im thinking the same will be true with the Viper. It will have trouble with most supercars from the past 5 years to present in a straight line but hopefully, like the LF-A, it will be tops on the circuit track.

I think everyone, including enthusiasts like myself, were hoping for dominance both in the straights and in the twisties. I just cant imagine they would let this car out if it really is slower than the outgoing ZR1 in a straight line. That would be unacceptable if I were in Ralph's shoes...

 

[emericr]

We all know skilled people will get better numbers but the numbers are clearly disappointing. Especially when you compare this to the ZR-1 that is about to be replaced next year.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

I doubt the ZR1 or Z06 will be available during the first model year for the C7. SRT is likely planning on the ACR competing with those models.

 

[ViperSmith]

We all know skilled people will get better numbers but the numbers are clearly disappointing. Especially when you compare this to the ZR-1 that is about to be replaced next year.

A single sample of preproduction numbers vs a car that doesn't exist yet, that won't be out for two more years - at a minimum.

What is there to compare again?

 

[SnakeBitten]

Best bonestock ZR1 time by a mag:

MT - 11.2 @ 130.5


Best ZR1 bonestock time by an owner:

Kyle Lemish - 10.6 @ 133 mph


At the risk of sounding like a "*****"[other thread lol] does anybody see the Gen V picking up 4-7 mph from that Edmunds test to cover both the mag and owner times for the ZR1? The best Gen IV time was 10.9 @ 129mph if memory serves. The 2013 Viper is 157lbs less, 40hp more and better gearing. This seems like it should be enough for the Gen V to pick up at least 3-4 mph or more from the Gen IV's best in the 1/4 so it should on paper cover the ZR1's trap speed, magazine or owner driven. Here's to hoping that Edmunds test is not indicative of production performance. On paper it seems like it should trap at least 133-134 mph given the Gen IV's performance which would make it old ZR1 fast.

To demolish a ZR1, like some of us want to see happen, the Viper would have to trap near 140mph and I don't see that happening until the new ZR1 is released...maybe. This is straight line only of course. I fully expect circuit track dominance over every car save the really high end exotics like P1, Zonda F's etc.

 

[emericr]

Exactly. It appears the new Gen V has the same straight line performance of a 4 year vehicle. Ralph has nothing to be proud about.

 

[Dom426h]

Ralph has nothing to be proud about.

That's an ignorant & disrespectful thing to say.

 

[bcmarly]

That was a pretty soft launch. The difference between a soft and hard launch is worth about .3 to .5 seconds.

 

[Dom426h]

A single sample of preproduction numbers vs a car that doesn't exist yet, that won't be out for two more years - at a minimum.

What is there to compare again?

LOL

 

[ViperSmith]

Exactly. It appears the new Gen V has the same straight line performance of a 4 year vehicle. Ralph has nothing to be proud about.

You seem awfully concerned for someone who isn't buying one and doesn't own a Viper at all.

 

[SnakeBitten]

Exactly. It appears the new Gen V has the same straight line performance of a 4 year vehicle. Ralph has nothing to be proud about.

I think you are getting carried away there a little. The Viper has an interior that rivals the best in the business, 50% stiffer, broader appeal [good or bad depending on a persons viewpoint] etc etc. Lets not forget the race versions of the car that will trickle tech to the upcoming ACR and regular Vipers. So I think Ralph and company have plenty to be proud about.

The straight line performance will be disappointing to most if it is as Edmunds test shows but its just ONE factor in an otherwise very good package. Truthfully if I were Ralph I would not let the Viper out if it were slower than the outgoing ZR1 just because. Even if it were just a mph and a 10th faster it would have to be faster lol....

 

[Kratos]

I feel like someone from the outside looking in reading this thread, because I represent the average guy who has no "dragging" skills but wants a fun hot rod. I could care less about these technicalities. The Viper would be fun for me regardless of if it beats the ZR1. The Viper is NOT a failure. Let's not get tunnel minded and treat this car like it's just a drag strip car and nothing else. I for one won't be doing races or quarter mile runs, and I'll go out on a limb and say a lot of other Viper owners won't either.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Drag racing isn't my thing, but for those that are primarily concerned with the drag strip... is the Viper really best suited for drag racing? I would think it's easier to get a cheaper muscle car and mod the hell out of to get the 1/4 mile times you're after. I guess I just don't understand the appeal of buying road racing cars for drag strips and straight-line performance.

 

[SnakeBitten]

It's never been a 1/4 mile focused car. But it was always a top performer there in the past. I think most want that to be still in the Viper equation. Unfortunately - DCT & AWD. So it's harder for the Snake to be that dominant at the strip as in the past. But it should still be faster than a ZR1

 

[Bobpantax]

Good post. The answer to your first question is "no". The Viper is best suited for road racing. And your second point also makes sense. The monster power Vipers that drag race are using trans brakes. Except for the body, their drivetrains are very different from stock. The new Viper will never launch as well as an all wheel drive Porsche turbo or Nissan GTR. It will NOT do a sub 3 second 0 to 60. With an exceptionally skilled driver, it MIGHT get to 3.0 or 3.1 in ideal conditions. The new vehicle is a bit faster than the stock Gen IV. It is also drivable by less skilled drivers. But, a stock Gen IV with headers, high flow air filter, and the Mopar controller has dynoed at greater power levels and I would guess that it might beat a stock Gen V in the quarter mile.

Drag racing isn't my thing, but for those that are primarily concerned with the drag strip... is the Viper really best suited for drag racing? I would think it's easier to get a cheaper muscle car and mod the hell out of to get the 1/4 mile times you're after. I guess I just don't understand the appeal of buying roadracing cars for drag strips and straight-line performance.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

Wow, lots of negative here, I can't believe what some of you are saying. First of all the Viper, although some of you insist it is, was never built to be a drag racer suspension or layout wise so these numbers are misleading IMHO. I think when you pull out along side any car at the "race track" head down the straight brake and turn you will find the Viper IS doing better at what it was ultimately designed for.

Are any of the SRT guys drag racers? Nope, they love road racing and that is where their passion is poured out into the Viper. They have succeeded and when the real "track numbers" come out that is what will be the defining moment for SRT and MOST buyers expectations, ZR1 what? 458 what? yeah we'll see who is un happy then. Thank God SRT did not just build a drag car... oh wait they did, the Challenger drag pack car, what does it do when they put their minds together for straight line stuff?


[h=1]2011 Dodge Challenger Drag Pak Sets Quarter-Mile Record[/h]by Jeff Prescott on 04.10.2011 21:03
The 2011 Mopar Challenger V-10 Drag Pak has entered the record books, just a month after making its competition debut, with a blistering 9.43-second quarter-mile pass at 143.90 mph. Dave Thomas, of Westchester, Pa., accomplished this feat at the NHRA Division 1 National Open event at Atco (N.J.) Raceway. He has owned the car for two weeks and has made only a few passes with it.Of course, he had serious factory advantages, much like bringing a gun to a knife fight. The 2011 Mopar Challenger Drag Pak boasts a Viper-sourced 500-plus cubic-inch V-10 in a car specially prepared for drag racing. Based on the 2011 Dodge Challenger and finished in a Stock Eliminator and Super Stock configuration, the vehicle features competition wheels and tires, a Mopar solid rear axle with performance gear ratio, a two-speed drag race transmission with integrated roll control, a complete competition fuel system with fuel cell, and a complete interior with gauge package. And best of all, you can order this beast directly from your local Dodge dealership. Chevrolet and Ford are busy putting together similar, competition-ready muscle cars for sale, but Dodge has the lock on 10-cylinder power.


Not apples to apples, but the Viper is not a drag car, at least not to me.

 

[Vooodoo ACR]

Good post Mark. I feel the same way.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I don't think anyone is expecting a drag car at least not me. I hope my post didnt reflect that desire.

In the Vipers history it has always done well at the drag strip bone stock against cars in its class and even against cars out of its class. I was a Viper nut since 89 way before the BPU Supra vs bone stock Viper days and the Viper still beating those Supras and even the Mustangs with mods with a more drag strip friendly suspension. and who can forget all those magazine articles where the Viper decimated the competition from Europe and the world in lap times and in the 1/4 mile and mile acceleration. And this is the same Viper that is designed more toward road racing. And some of you don't even try to say that fact didnt but a broad smile on your face lol. It did both track and strip well. That is what I think people still want. Not a dedicated drag car. Just a car with the power to weight like in the past that can do both well. I certainly was not expecting a Viper ever to come stock with a drag suspension. No real Viper guy wants that at all.

Since they took it back to the GTS essence with the Gen V is it really a stretch that some would also want to relive the glory days of the GTS drag strip dominance despite its road racing underpinnings? Nothing did 11.9's to 12.2 @ anywhere near 119-120mph back then. That monster mph can only be achieved by having more power than your competition. And who had 450hp back then? The Viper has always been about circuit track racing but its also been about bigger power than the competition. Yes that competition has stepped up with some real trick tech and comparable power. But with 8.4 liters I think some of us educated enthusiasts, owners and potential buyers just expected to have our cake and eat it too as we did with the original GTS. Is it still a realistic expectation considering the much improved automotive landscape? Yes it is on paper, but probably not based on R&D budget, future plans etc but that's why there is a forum to discuss our idea's even if it appears to be moronic to some...Just my 2 cents.

 

[Vypr Phil]

Thank you for a great post Mark J!

I will wait for GEN V Nürburgring lap times, it will say a lot more about the car than 1/4 mile an 0 to 60 runs posted by average mag drivers.

I tend to believe that the new transmission and axle ratios will work much better for the 'Ring and pay big dividends there, at least I hope so!

Let's all remember that Vipers are meant to be track cars first not strip cars, the Vipers have done us proud on many tracks and will surely continue to do so.

 

[VENOM V]

Wow, lots of negative here, I can't believe what some of you are saying. First of all the Viper, although some of you insist it is, was never built to be a drag racer suspension or layout wise so these numbers are misleading IMHO. I think when you pull out along side any car at the "race track" head down the straight brake and turn you will find the Viper IS doing better at what it was ultimately designed for.

Are any of the SRT guys drag racers? Nope, they love road racing and that is where their passion is poured out into the Viper. They have succeeded and when the real "track numbers" come out that is what will be the defining moment for SRT and MOST buyers expectations, ZR1 what? 458 what? yeah we'll see who is un happy then. Thank God SRT did not just build a drag car... oh wait they did, the Challenger drag pack car, what does it do when they put their minds together for straight line stuff?

Not apples to apples, but the Viper is not a drag car, at least not to me.

You nailed it, Mark. A voice of reason!

 

[V10TT]

That MPH *****!
I can tell you on the streets and hang outs this Car is going to be everybody's *****!
GTRs, GT500s, ZR1s, Z06s, TT Porches, CTS-V ..etc.... *****!
Not what the 1996 GTS was all about when it exterminated the competition...

What are you going to do when the competition lines up next to you on the hwy.???
Challenge them to the Walmart Parking lot, and you provide the Cones??

 

[bluestreak]

That MPH *****!
I can tell you on the streets and hang outs this Car is going to be everybody's *****!
GTRs, GT500s, ZR1s, Z06s, TT Porches, CTS-V ..etc.... *****!
Not what the 1996 GTS was all about when it exterminated the competition...

What are you going to do when the competition lines up next to you on the hwy.???
ZChallenge them to the Walmart Parking lot, and you provide the Cones??

Um, yeah, the only problem with your theory is this.

On the same track the cars you mentioned trapped.

GT500 - 123.5 = 4mph Slower
CTS-V - 117.5 = 10 mph slower
GT-R - 123.3 = 4 mph slower
Z06 - 122.2 and 123.2 = 4-5 mph slower
Turbo S - 125.5 = 2 mph slower
ZR-1 - 128.3 = 1 mph faster (not bad for base Viper vs top of the line fastest Corvette)



Do your homework and then come back. The evidence doesn't support your theory.

 

[v10enomous]

and of this bunch many favor the Z06 because it's an NA car like the Viper.

Um, yeah, the only problem with your theory is this.

On the same track the cars you mentioned trapped.

GT500 - 123.5 = 4mph Slower
CTS-V - 117.5 = 10 mph slower
GT-R - 123.3 = 4 mph slower
Z06 - 122.2 and 123.2 = 4-5 mph slower
Turbo S - 125.5 = 2 mph slower
ZR-1 - 128.3 = 1 mph faster (not bad for base Viper vs top of the line fastest Corvette)



Do your homework and then come back. The evidence doesn't support your theory.

 

[DMan]

I hate to contribute to a thread that's already too long but why so much reaction to garbage #s from a garbage source? Next thing you know when Motor Trend rates a Subaru as a better car then the Gen5 we'll see a thread how we need to sell our Vipers. Since when have these horrible sources of info ever meant anything to anyone other than kids and people who don't know any better. Geesh. My estimate for the Gen5 is just simple math with 30 yrs of drag racing & raod course events; I can run 11.5 all day at a test & tune mediocre track-prep, **-hum. Gen5, 100lbs+ lighter, that's a tenth, 40hp more (conservative we've been told), that's 3-4 tenths, I'd expect to be able to peddle it to 11.1 from the factory with a mph right around 130, and that's not even talking about the 3.55's, last time I did a gear swap it was on a 587rwhp car going from 3.08 to 3.55 and I cut 3 tenths off my time with no change in mph on 315 rears.

It's like no one here actually races their car ... I know that's not the case, so let's all get our real-car-guy minds working again. And yes, Mark J as always, is even more on the mark (nice pun). Now let's stop giving edmund's so much more respect then they deserve.

And yea, all these stop light racers, y'all need to go to a track, a Viper's performance can't be opened on a street, if you think it can then I also bet you believe what is published in car mags. I stopped street light racing before I turned 17, once I got to a couple tracks the street was just a place to look good & watch wanna-be's get tickets.

Sorry, a little venting there too I guess, feel free to kick my **** if I've offended, but I'm just sayin ...

 

[BigDawg]

Everyone relax!!!! Who cares about it not being close to the fastest in its class? Who cares if it's marginally faster than its predecessor? It has laguna interior! It has cupholder options! It has a digital dash! It has a 739 speaker sound system! It has a 8.4" navigation screen with pretty graphics! It has LED running lamps! It has adjustable (not ride height) suspension so it's not too rough riding...we wouldn't want the Viper to be like a race car would we? It has an X brace! It has seats provided by the Ferrari supplier! O.M.G!!!!

All kidding aside, this is just one test. One test from a crappy source. Now if multiple tests turn in these numbers then I'd stand behind my above sarcastic comments about where the focus (and the money) went in the development of the Gen V.

 

[emericr]

I am talking related to performance, not the whole car. Get over it. You just can't handle the truth.

That's an ignorant & disrespectful thing to say.

 

[emericr]

I am just disappointed. A lot of the fun I have is either mile runs, mexico runs or 1/4 miles races on private properties. The Viper has the look and now the interior comfort but the performance is not on par with a $140,000 vehicle. That is the reason why I will stick with my upcoming 3.4 sec 0-60 stock AMG and hope the ACR is better.

You seem awfully concerned for someone who isn't buying one and doesn't own a Viper at all.

 

[emericr]

I could not have said it any better.

It's never been a 1/4 mile focused car. But it was always a top performer there in the past. I think most want that to be still in the Viper equation. Unfortunately - DCT & AWD. So it's harder for the Snake to be that dominant at the strip as in the past. But it should still be faster than a ZR1 ��

 

[Camfab]

Not sure why everyone is complaining. The car is a great step forward. I disagree that it's not a great drag car. What I will say is that you'll never see the huge performance gap between it and other cars as you saw in 1996. Manufacturers across the board have upped their game twenty fold since those crummy times. So unless SRT Grows some serious hair, like releasing a 1000hp twin turbo car, those days of the big margins are over.