2000 RT/10 for ¢¢¢

[WilBriK]

Look at what this 2000 RT went for:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438137478&category=6209

And that was the ASKING price, not an auction gone wrong.

Looks like my price target of <$45K for a '99 RT next August should be easy to hit.

 

[99 R/T 10]

How about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438167997&category=6209&rd=1

 

[FranciscoR.]

Is that too low?

 

[WilBriK]

Yeah, that's a very nice price, but there is something unnerving about this statement:

"I do not know any history of the car or if it has any type of warranty. We are selling it like we bought it, AS-IS."

 

[Hockeysnake]

It is a Florida Car and Dealer. Say no more. SCUMBAGS! Never buy a car from Florida.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Yeah, that's a very nice price, but there is something unnerving about this statement:

"I do not know any history of the car or if it has any type of warranty. We are selling it like we bought it, AS-IS."

Nothing unnerving about that. Used goods are sold "as is with no warranty". How often do you see some naieve person saying "well i just realized my car had a panel painted I'm thinking about asking for my money back". There is no money back warranty on cars, so they always need checked out first.

I think this seller just "knows the game" and is telling the buyer to check it out FIRST before bidding.

 

[bwhitmore]

I bought our 1998 Grand Cherokee 5.9L off of ebay. It wasn't a huge deal since the car was relatively inexpensive and I had planned on fixing it up anyway. I probably spent about as much I would have if I had bought one here locally, but by the time I was done I had a much nicer car than what I could find locally for the same amount.

My Viper was another story, I considered doing the ebay thing. But I knew I just had to see the car, drive it, and go over it with a fine tooth comb before purchasing it. I may have paid a little more, but the satisfaction of knowing I got what I paid for was worth it to me.

 

[ViperJoe]

Viper prices are getting kind of depressing. GREAT for buyers!
Another private auction. Could have been the guy sitting next to him bidding. Let's see if it re-lists in a couple of weeks, due to "the auction fell through".

 

[FranciscoR.]

lol...makes me wish I had a good paying job right now.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, that's a very nice price, but there is something unnerving about this statement:

"I do not know any history of the car or if it has any type of warranty. We are selling it like we bought it, AS-IS."

In my experoence, with Vipers, you definitely get what you pay for.

As a note, the pictures from the second auction for the 2000 RT/10 show the front facia with foglight covers. I believe those were deleted by 2000? This may indicate a previous wreck that the dealer is just trying to avoid with his as is caveat.

 

[garolittle]

Did it have an engine?

 

[bwhitmore]

In my experoence, with Vipers, you definitely get what you pay for.

As a note, the pictures from the second auction for the 2000 RT/10 show the front facia with foglight covers. I believe those were deleted by 2000? This may indicate a previous wreck that the dealer is just trying to avoid with his as is caveat.

Good catch, I noticed that too. Wonder if maybe someone just installed them to avoid chipping their fog light lenses???

 

[Lawrenzo]

BFD- it's a 4 year old car. The 30-35% drop in value is actually quite low compared to most cars. Our cars are not made out of Platinum ya know

 

[WANTED]

LETS NOT FORGET THE OLDEST SAYING - YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR - I FOR ONE WOULD NOT WANT EITHER ONE OF THOSE VIPERS - AS IS (LOL) BUYER BEWARE!

 

[WilBriK]

Speaking of depreciation, when does the winter 'sweet spot' occur?

Everyone is aware of the price fluctuation before and after winter, where prices go down before and creep back up as summer approaches. Which month does it start to decline?

If everything goes to plan, I'll be back in the States in late July, and I plan to buy in August. But now I'm thinking August might be too early for the inevitable price decline to start, and it's definitely too early for the price decline to bottom out. I figure it bottoms out in December - January, at least it did when I was tracking prices on Jaguar XKRs.

I've been tracking Viper prices for a few months, and they are definitely in their winter decline right now. Curious to see what will happen between now and next summer price-wise.

I'm going to watch prices carefully this winter because I can delay the purchase until November of 2004, after which I'll have to leave the States again. Then again, if I buy in August, I can drive the snake for a few months all over the U.S. Might be worth a couple/few G's just for the entertainment value.

 

[Miles B]

If you're going to drive it around, you're gonna have to pay insurance and sales tax on it too...

 

[WilBriK]

Yeah I know

I wonder if there is a way to get it registered elsewhere, then get temporary permission to drive it in the States. One of the board members brought his car to Greece for a short period, and I imagine he didn't have to pay taxes or get the car registered there. I wonder if the same is possible in the States.

I'll worry about that later. In the meantime, I'll just have to feed my obsession by coming here.

BTW, if we ever need another tech in Monaco, I'll give you a shout

 

[Mike Brunton]

Speaking of depreciation, when does the winter 'sweet spot' occur?

Everyone is aware of the price fluctuation before and after winter, where prices go down before and creep back up as summer approaches. Which month does it start to decline?

If everything goes to plan, I'll be back in the States in late July, and I plan to buy in August. But now I'm thinking August might be too early for the inevitable price decline to start, and it's definitely too early for the price decline to bottom out. I figure it bottoms out in December - January, at least it did when I was tracking prices on Jaguar XKRs.

I've been tracking Viper prices for a few months, and they are definitely in their winter decline right now. Curious to see what will happen between now and next summer price-wise.

I'm going to watch prices carefully this winter because I can delay the purchase until November of 2004, after which I'll have to leave the States again. Then again, if I buy in August, I can drive the snake for a few months all over the U.S. Might be worth a couple/few G's just for the entertainment value.

I am personally not a big believer in the "winter dip". In my entire life I have never known car prices to actually RISE in the spring. Maybe they depreciate faster in winter, or the annual depreciation curve is lop-sided towards being higher in winter, but I have never in my entire life of living in inclement-weather winter areas seen a car actually go UP in value in spring.

I think nowadays with people flying to various states to buy cars, and shipping them around, it is becoming even less of a phenomenon too. I remember twice that I was looking for a sports car and "waited until winter" and never seemed to do better than standard depreciation. I don't think Vipers will be selling for more in April then they were in February.

On another note, on another thread I saw that the blue book RETAIL on a 2001 GTS with 10k miles was $54k! Amazing!

 

[Magicboy2]

I am personally not a big believer in the "winter dip". I don't think Vipers will be selling for more in April then they were in February.

Then you probably haven't been following Viper prices for too long.

On another note, on another thread I saw that the blue book RETAIL on a 2001 GTS with 10k miles was $54k! Amazing!

It's well established that blue book values mean absolutely nothing when dealing with Vipers. There are too few of them for mass market pricing guides to apply.

 

[WilBriK]

"I am personally not a big believer in the "winter dip". In my entire life I have never known car prices to actually RISE in the spring."

I tracked convertible Jag XKR prices last year, and they definitely DID rise in the spring. I'm not talking a huge amount, but it was cheaper to buy in December than it was in March. Of course, a couple/few months later, equilibrium hit, but the phenomenon is real on certain models.

I've only been tracking Viper RT prices for about 6 months, so I don't know if the same will happen, but I don't see why it wouldn't as the criteria are similar: convertible, high-end sports car.

But by March or April, I should have my answer.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

The real reason to not buy in Florida ebay or other,is that you can "wash" a salvage title there. That's why there are so many exotic dealers there.

 

[Lawrenzo]

I am personally not a big believer in the "winter dip". I don't think Vipers will be selling for more in April then they were in February.

Then you probably haven't been following Viper prices for too long.

Yeah Mike, you don't what the heck you're talking about when it comes to Vipers- I really wish you would get a clue or something

 

[Mike Brunton]

I am personally not a big believer in the "winter dip". I don't think Vipers will be selling for more in April then they were in February.

Then you probably haven't been following Viper prices for too long.

On another note, on another thread I saw that the blue book RETAIL on a 2001 GTS with 10k miles was $54k! Amazing!

It's well established that blue book values mean absolutely nothing when dealing with Vipers. There are too few of them for mass market pricing guides to apply.

I disagree with you on both points. Blue book values are not "pie in the sky" they are based on dealer reported sales. Look around on eBay and you will see '01s going for the 50k range. Maybe a few grand either way, but you have to remember asking price and transaction price are two different things.

Regarding Viper prices in the winter, I've been looking long enough. Think about what you are saying! Do people in CA, AZ, TX, NM, FL, GA and other warm-year-round states also lower their prices? If so, why? In ANY market (and I do mean ANY market) where there are seasonal or geographic fluctuations, there are ALWAYS investors willing to take advantage of them for easy money. I have never heard of commodity traders looking into cars... if Vipers are worth a couple of G's more in the spring, why not buy up 10 of 'em cheap every year and pocket an easy $20g's in the spring? And since nowadays people travel for their cars, wouldn't it be a bonanaza for our south and west coast brothers when winter rolls around in the other states? Time to pilgrim north in search of cheap Vipers! I would be willing to bet if you graphed Viper selling prices for a year, you would not see any rise in the spring. Too bad nobody keeps that data... oh, wait, KBB does. I wonder if their prices will rise between any two consecutive months betwen January and May. I'd bet some serious jack they wouldn't. Up for a bet?

 

[malcoll]

The real reason to not buy in Florida ebay or other,is that you can "wash" a salvage title there. That's why there are so many exotic dealers there.

Explain how you can "wash" a salvage title in Florida..... Florida has some of the most stringent salvage title rules I've seen.

In fact, I know of a early 90's Ford that was totalled in Florida due to being immersed in water. The vehicle was sold as "salvage non-rebuildable".... to someone in Tennessee.

A Florida resident happened to buy that vehicle in Tennessee... and upon trying to bring it BACK to Florida.... was advised by the DMV that the vehicle had been issued a salvage non-rebuildable title FOUR years earlier.

Now there are some unscrupulous car dealers in the South Florida area..... but you cannot "wash" a salvage title easily in Florida.

Another example... I was Claims Manager in north Florida... we sold a 1988 Jaguar XJS Convertible with a Salvage Non-Rebuildable title (due to extensive fire damage.. go figure)... the buyer was a person in South Florida.. .who repaired the car and tried to get the title changed from salvage non-rebuildable to salvage rebuildable...(difference being a rebuildable salvage vehicle can be registered for driving on the street after an extensive inspection.. the non-rebuildable can never be registered for street use).... well the DMV denied the request.... he then tried to get the insurance company to request a new rebuildable title... which we did not do.

He could not get even a change from non-rebuildable to rebuildable..... and definitely NOT a clear title. The whole thing ended up in a lawsuit... because he sold the vehicle to a third party telling them that the insurance company could get the title cleared.... which we could not and would not.

So unless you have a specific example of a title being "washed" in Florida, I'll have to disagree with your statement. Further my take on why there are so many exotic car dealers in South Florida would be that Florida has a lot of international shipping and a LOT of money... hence... exotic vehicles are brought into the country there and there are folks with the dinero to purchase them.

Lance

 

[Gerald Levin]

Yeah I know

I wonder if there is a way to get it registered elsewhere, then get temporary permission to drive it in the States. One of the board members brought his car to Greece for a short period, and I imagine he didn't have to pay taxes or get the car registered there. I wonder if the same is possible in the States.
BTW, if we ever need another tech in Monaco, I'll give you a shout

Couldn't you establish residency in Utah since there is no sales tax? Then all you would have to do is just buy a plate.

 

[DLTARNU]

"Regarding Viper prices in the winter, I've been looking long enough. Think about what you are saying! Do people in CA, AZ, TX, NM, FL, GA and other warm-year-round states also lower their prices? If so, why? In ANY market (and I do mean ANY market) where there are seasonal or geographic fluctuations, there are ALWAYS investors willing to take advantage of them for easy money. I have never heard of commodity traders looking into cars... if Vipers are worth a couple of G's more in the spring, why not buy up 10 of 'em cheap every year and pocket an easy $20g's in the spring? And since nowadays people travel for their cars, wouldn't it be a bonanaza for our south and west coast brothers when winter rolls around in the other states? Time to pilgrim north in search of cheap Vipers! I would be willing to bet if you graphed Viper selling prices for a year, you would not see any rise in the spring. Too bad nobody keeps that data... oh, wait, KBB does. I wonder if their prices will rise between any two consecutive months betwen January and May. I'd bet some serious jack they wouldn't. Up for a bet?"


Heya Mike,

My winter price tracking is just about over, and sure enough, prices seem to be on the rise. Here are 7 auctions from October 31 - March 5 for the exact Viper I'm looking for (1999 Black RT/10 with cognac or black interior):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2438808678&category=6209 (Oct. 31 - sold for $40,100.00)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2441250725&category=6209 (Nov. 14 - bidding went to $43,000.00 - reserve not met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2443572609&category=6209 (Nov. 26 - bidding went to $42,000.00 - reserve not met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448313038 (Dec. 21 - bidding went to $43,099.00 - reserve not met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2456509043&category=6209 (Feb. 4 - bidding went to $40,200.00 - reserve not met)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2458812440&category=6209 (Feb. 8 - sold for $41,090.00)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2463502332&category=6209 (Mar. 5 - sold for $43,000.00)


Of the 3 that sold, the lowest priced went in October, with the other two fetching HIGHER prices LATER in the year, or the closer to Spring it has gotten. None were sold during the coldest months.

So, I think the original assumption was not inaccurate, at least not on the specific model I'm looking for. It would have cost me $2,900.00 less to buy the exact same car last October than it would right now. I won't be buying for another 2-3 months, so perhaps the prices will drop again, but I don't expect they will until next September/October or so.

Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I'd much rather put that $2,900.00 towards modifications.

And as a side note, ALL the cars that sold had to be run multiple times with lower reserves because no one was bidding as high as they wanted. I know this because I bid (and lost) on all 3 that sold.

There are a few differences between the cars that would have affected price (mileage, mods, etc.) but the general trend is there on this specific model. Perhaps if the entire Viper market was taken into account different trends would appear, but I'm not concerned with the entire Viper market, only black 1999 RT/10's with cognac or black interior.

 

[BlueGTS]

I am going to have to go with Mike on this one. I live in the North East so my Viper is not driven for 4-5 months of the year. Even with this amount of snow I have not seen significant movement in prices (aside from normal depreciation) no matter what time of year. I use to be a believer in the winter dip theory but the more I thought about it, the more it did not make sense. I think the main reason the price does not dip is, there are less cars being sold during the winter and thus the competition is higher. This in my experience balances out the price.

The only exception to this is a car that has been sitting at a dealership lot during a snowy winter. By February / March the dealer really wants to unload that vehicle because they have been sitting on it for months.

Don’t get me started on using Ebay as a barometer… Every car looks perfect on your computer screen.

 

[DLTARNU]

"I think the main reason the price does not dip is, there are less cars being sold during the winter and thus the competition is higher."

Assuming fewer are sold (or attempted to be sold) during the winter, it stands to reason there are also fewer buyers during those same months for the same reason: crap weather. So even if supply (fewer sellers) goes down, demand (fewer buyers) goes down along with it, which should allow for some sort of equilibrium.

The southern states do not have to worry about weather at anytime of the year, this is true. But I know many people who wouldn't consider buying a car that wasn't local, as they don't want to put the time/effort into flying to another state to inspect a vehicle, nor would they trust a pair of eyes other than their own to do the inspection for them. So even while there would be potential buyers in the southern states during the winter months, many of them would not consider a car being sold in another state, even if the price was right. There is also (at least down south) a prejudice against cars that are in the snow belt because it is assumed they are driven in salt and are potential rust buckets. Whether this is fair or not (I believe it to be unfair) has little to do with the perception of it. As such, even though it is more practical now than ever before to buy out-of-state (Internet research, cheap airfare, etc.) most people do not consider it an option, yet.


"Don’t get me started on using Ebay as a barometer… Every car looks perfect on your computer screen."

Admittedly, a trend noted from a 7-car sample size on eBay isn't going to make Poincare swoon, but it still showed exactly what I thought it would. Sure, it could be a fluke, but I saw the exact same trend on Jag XKR verts last year, and I was able to track a much larger sample size.

I never implied, and in fact specifically stated the converse, that prices would rise dramatically, only that there is a slight rise and paralization of depreciation on certain cars during certain times of the year. If I can pick-up a '99 RT/10 in good condition for $40K or less in the next 3 months, I'll happily admit I was wrong. In fact, I want to be wrong

 

[Jay Herbert]

Speaking of depreciation, when does the winter 'sweet spot' occur?
Everyone is aware of the price fluctuation before and after winter, where prices go down before and creep back up as summer approaches. Which month does it start to decline?

Although many may dispute it, I have been putting cars in and taking them out of the VCA clasisifeds for almost ten years..... sales slow beginning in October, and start picking up in March.... same thing every year.

Sort of like house sales... I put my house on the Market in September last year, had lots of interest 'till Oct, nothing in Nov/Dec/Jan.... a few lookers in Feb, Sold it last week as soon as the lawn turned green.

As for Viper prices, asking prices do not dip a lot in the winter, but selling prices seem to... Cars are starting to move out of the classifieds at a pretty good clip right now. If you want snowy bargains, they're gone now.

 

[Jay Herbert]

Good catch, I noticed that too. Wonder if maybe someone just installed them to avoid chipping their fog light lenses???

I can't image somone trying to cut the slits into the fascia to install the covers........ I vote for front end work too.