2006 SRT Clutch Problem - Need Help So I can Drag Race for that 10 second slip

[Speedfreak]

Hey Guys,

I need some help solving a clutch problem I am having. The car creeps with the clutch all the way in at about 3k plus. I have changed the slave and master cylinder but it has not completely solved the problem. Engagement is quite close to the floor and ease of shifting is spotty. There is no way I can drag race it effectively in this condition.

The clutch only has about 25k on it and was replaced a year ago. Engagement is very smooth and everything seems fine.

Thoughts?

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Hey Guys,

I need some help solving a clutch problem I am having. The car creeps with the clutch all the way in at about 3k plus. I have changed the slave and master cylinder but it has not completely solved the problem. Engagement is quite close to the floor and ease of shifting is spotty. There is no way I can drag race it effectively in this condition.

The clutch only has about 25k on it and was replaced a year ago. Engagement is very smooth and everything seems fine.

Thoughts?

When you say the clutch has 25K do you meen 25,000 or 2,500?

Are you running stock flywheel?

What clutch assembly are you running specifically ( ie mfg , model )

Pressure plate finger height is critical. If off will create issues.

If pressure plate is worn, the possibilty exists that will not fully disengage.

You serviced many components which need to be bled thoroughly, so are you sure you have no air in line?


Best of luck.
Toddy

 

[Dan Cragin]

Most likely you have a clutch issue with the clutch plate not dis-engaging. To be honest, if you hot-rod at all, 25-30k is about all a Viper clutch is good for. If is not worn excessively at this point then usually the pressure plate gets "sprung" and the pedal effort gets much higher.

If you do replace the clutch, you can find a like factory replacement for much cheaper. A few notes- the flywheel should not be machined, if it has hot spots then replace it. Take a good look at the rear main seal for any leakage, good time to replace that if it is seeping. The flywheel bolts should always be replaced if you are changing the flywheel. They can be reused, but if they have stretched they can hit the rear main cap and cause damage to your engine. You may want to consider a lighter chromoly flywheel if the flywheel needs replacement. It will last much longer than an aluminum one and give you the same benefits (better throttle response and shifting). When you change the clutch, always replaced the pilot bearing and hydraulic slave cylinder (which includes the throw-out bearing). If you do not then you may end up back in there again soon. Last off, when you re-install the drive shaft always replace the straps and bolts that hold it on. They are one time use and should not be reused. If you do not then the u-joint may become loose and the drive shaft may fail. I know of one Viper Days driver who nearly lost his life because of this mistake.

Good luck

 

[Speedfreak]

When you say the clutch has 25K do you meen 25,000 or 2,500?

Are you running stock flywheel?

What clutch assembly are you running specifically ( ie mfg , model )

Pressure plate finger height is critical. If off will create issues.

If pressure plate is worn, the possibilty exists that will not fully disengage.

You serviced many components which need to be bled thoroughly, so are you sure you have no air in line?


Best of luck.
Toddy

Clutch as about 25,000 miles on it. I replaced it when I installed an aluminum flywheel. It was an aftermarket clutch unit not OEM. Will try and find the specifics.

Woodhouse installed the hydraulic parts so I am pretty sure it was bled well. I know that can be an issue.

Could it be the pilot bearing bushing/bearing has seized and the mainshaft of the trans is getting some engagement from the flywheel?

Sounds like maybe something with the clutch itself.

 

[Speedfreak]

Most likely you have a clutch issue with the clutch plate not dis-engaging. To be honest, if you hot-rod at all, 25-30k is about all a Viper clutch is good for. If is not worn excessively at this point then usually the pressure plate gets "sprung" and the pedal effort gets much higher.

If you do replace the clutch, you can find a like factory replacement for much cheaper. A few notes- the flywheel should not be machined, if it has hot spots then replace it. Take a good look at the rear main seal for any leakage, good time to replace that if it is seeping. The flywheel bolts should always be replaced if you are changing the flywheel. They can be reused, but if they have stretched they can hit the rear main cap and cause damage to your engine. You may want to consider a lighter chromoly flywheel if the flywheel needs replacement. It will last much longer than an aluminum one and give you the same benefits (better throttle response and shifting). When you change the clutch, always replaced the pilot bearing and hydraulic slave cylinder (which includes the throw-out bearing). If you do not then you may end up back in there again soon. Last off, when you re-install the drive shaft always replace the straps and bolts that hold it on. They are one time use and should not be reused. If you do not then the u-joint may become loose and the drive shaft may fail. I know of one Viper Days driver who nearly lost his life because of this mistake.

Good luck

It has been hotrodded on the dragstrip and the road course at sebring several times. Sounds like new clutch time based on what you guys are saying.

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Clutch as about 25,000 miles on it. I replaced it when I installed an aluminum flywheel. It was an aftermarket clutch unit not OEM. Will try and find the specifics.

Woodhouse installed the hydraulic parts so I am pretty sure it was bled well. I know that can be an issue.

Could it be the pilot bearing bushing/bearing has seized and the mainshaft of the trans is getting some engagement from the flywheel?

Sounds like maybe something with the clutch itself.

SF,
Honestly if the Woodhouse Motorsport Crew installed your hydraulics, it was done correctly.

In regards to your bearing question, you would most likely hear noise if frozen. Good question though.

Sounds like your assembly is well used ( worn out ) with all of your track events.


BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

 

[Speedfreak]

SF,
Honestly if the Woodhouse Motorsport Crew installed your hydraulics, it was done correctly.

In regards to your bearing question, you would most likely hear noise if frozen. Good question though.

Sounds like your assembly is well used ( worn out ) with all of your track events.


BAD BOYZZ GARAGE, INC.
Toddy

Very good input. Sent you a PM. Get back to me. Thanks.

 

[JonB]

Hey Guys, I need some help solving a clutch problem I am having. The car creeps with the clutch all the way in at about 3k plus. I have changed the slave and master cylinder but it has not completely solved the problem. Engagement is quite close to the floor and ease of shifting is spotty. There is no way I can drag race it effectively in this condition. .....The clutch only has about 25k on it and was replaced a year ago. Engagement is very smooth and everything seems fine.

Thoughts?

Despite the experienced techs involved, 25K hard miles ago, the first thing I would suspect is MORE BLEEDING is needed for some reason. Is it WORSE when HOT? Review D-C Perf tips too. If all is good, its clutch-time. Good Luck, be Safe.

JonB~~~~~~:<~

 

[Speedfreak]

Hey Guys, I need some help solving a clutch problem I am having. The car creeps with the clutch all the way in at about 3k plus. I have changed the slave and master cylinder but it has not completely solved the problem. Engagement is quite close to the floor and ease of shifting is spotty. There is no way I can drag race it effectively in this condition. .....The clutch only has about 25k on it and was replaced a year ago. Engagement is very smooth and everything seems fine.

Thoughts?

Despite the experienced techs involved, 25K hard miles ago, the first thing I would suspect is MORE BLEEDING is needed for some reason. Is it WORSE when HOT? Review D-C Perf tips too. If all is good, its clutch-time. Good Luck, be Safe.

JonB~~~~~~:<~

Jon, can't say it is just hot related although it does seem worse hot. But more appropriately it gets worse the more used, meaning if I have been cruising a while and disengage its good. But after a few stop and goes, it gets worse. I was going to try and give it one more really good blead before tearing into it though.

 

[Dan Cragin]

Jon has made a good point, if you track your car the clutch fluid could have overheated from the heat generated from the exhaust (being close to the clutch line). When this happens, the fluid boiling produces air in the clutch system. This will not allow the hydraulic system to work properly as it is compressing air and not just fluid. This will cause the clutch not to release.

On track cars, we reroute the clutch line away from the exhaust and wrap it with heat reflective covers.

Check you clutch fluid level, if it is low or empty you could have a hydraulic leak.

 

[dragon rider]

So what you guys are saying with 33k on the original clutch my clutch is about done. Guess I'll be calling JonB sooner or later. Hopefully later lol.

 

[JonB]

So what you guys are saying with 33k on the original clutch my clutch is about done. Guess I'll be calling JonB sooner or later. Hopefully later lol.

NO! The OE cluch is a good one, but if U re-read SpeedFreeks OP, he is ABUSIVE !!

So LATER in your case!!!

 

[JonB]

Jon, can't say it is just hot related although it does seem worse hot. But more appropriately it gets worse the more used, meaning if I have been cruising a while and disengage its good. But after a few stop and goes, it gets worse. I was going to try and give it one more really good blead before tearing into it though.

Before Id let you spend any big bucks, consider shielding-insulating, or re-routing the clutch lines as per Dan-DCP mentions. And upgrade the fluid to hi-temp like Motul600.

It would be a shame to buy a big-bucks clutch and have the same heat-caused issue!.

 

[TrackAire]

I think the key here is your goal for a 10 second time slip. If you've got 25k on your original clutch, you've done good IMO.

If you really want to get a 10 second pass, you can't have any clutch slippage at all!! I went with the Bad Boyzz Garage clutch in my car and you can actually see where the stock clutch slips under hard pulls at the upper rpm when you've got traction when you compare the two while racing.

It doesn't matter how much hp your motor is making, if you can't put it to the tires you don't have a chance of getting into the 10's. Do yourself a favor and buy a quality piece that will hold up to a sticky launch pad.

Every tenth you lower your 60' time is two tenths off your ET. Guys spend thousands of bucks to get more hp for a couple of tenths, you've probably got it sitting there if you can hook up with the clutch and your tire choice.

Good luck on getting into the 10's, it seems to being more of a reality than a myth on street tires lately

Cheers,
George

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

In our opinion cost is relative. We are talking "Dodge Viper" not "Dodge Stratus". No offense to the Stratus team of course.

It is very important to upgrade fluids and to thermal coat or sleve questionable areas for Viper's that will be Tracked on a regular basis with out doubt. These are great tips. So let's talk about addtional good tips, upgrading your clutch for road racing and especially Drag Racing would be highly suggested from all, I would think. If your back under a Viper replacing these parts again prematurely then cost becomes very relevant.

For example, when Chrysler went to 600 HP and 560 Trq they introduced their OEM Twin Disc Clutch / Flywheel assembly. This was not done to be exotic only but realistically to handle the HP & Trq requirements that the Viper V10 delivers. This is a benefit 3 fold, (1) lighter weight of the assembly, (2) reduction of inertia by reducing the pressure plate & clutch discs in diameter and (3) higher trq capacity.

Now take your Viper to the track were Billet Steel Contact Friction Points will out live and dissapate heat better than chromoly steel or other lesser qualty steel insert friction points. This is to point out that quality of materials matter at the end of the day Look at this as an insurance policy.

In our opinion if your going to upgrade then do your research and purchase once not twice. Also if your servicing your Viper to stock specs, I always recommend Factory OEM Parts, not aftermarket stock like replacement parts because of potential quality issues. The Viper is very unique in that mosts of it's parts are not vehicle line to vehicle line interchangeable.

" It's Better To Leave Some Rubber On The Ground, Than To Leave Your Clutch On The Line "

Toddy G.

 

[Speedfreak]

I really don't think this is fluid related. All the clutch fluid was changed with the hydraulic parts change and nothing has changed in the car. If I had heat issues with the fluid I suspect this problem would have shown up earlier. Also, it showed up first at the track after the car had cooled down substantially. Then when I pulled up to the line the creeping began.

Absent a dual disk clutch, what is between a stock oem style and dual disk. There must be something that is better materials than just the organic oem job. What are you guys using that is better than stock but not top of the heap dual disk clutch.

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

What's your gear ratio? The reason asked is that differrent high performance clutch materials may chatter and lower gear ratios highly reduce the chatter. Definetly you want a pressure plate upgrade with 1800 to 2400 lb of clamp force, this in it self will improve clutch life under high performance use ( Track Days & Bracket Drag Racing ) even in an organic set up. There is a variety of clutch mfg's that make high performance replacement clutches in the Viper 12.225" diameter utilizing Sintered Iron, Ceramic, dual blends of friction materials and upgrading to higher quality marcel springs to help eliminate catastrophic failure ( Blow Up ).

Keep in mind that when you service your clutch assembly you may need to have your current flywheel milled true to eliminate any warpage & hot spots. This is par for the course, so go to your local machine shop & have them surface mill to flat. They should know what to do. If totally warped or burnt then replace for sure.

I will send to you a pm of a few mfg's that may work for your application.

Toddy

 

[Dan Cragin]

Just a note:
The Viper service manual cautions do not machine the flywheel face, if the surface is bad the flywheel must be replaced. Milling the flywheel will change the o-play bearing clearance and clamp load of the pressure plate.

Clean the flywheel face with crocus cloth or fine sandpaper (400-600 grit), then wipe surface with mineral spirits. If the surface is scared, heat checked or warped, replace the flywheel.

Hope this helps.