2008 SES Check Engine Light Experts HELP!!!

[bdelass]

I installed the complete Belanger kit on my 2008 SSG Viper a few months back. Installed fairly easily and ran great initially. Lately I have been having an issue with the SES light coming on. It will come on and stay on for a few tanks of gas. Then for no apparent reason it will go off. For example today, I took the car out for a few hours in the hot 95+ degree weather and it ran great. The SES light was on initially upon start-up as it had been for the past few drives, but by the time I got out of the neighborhood it was off. The car ran great all day. Then...tonight I go to take it out for a short drive and the light comes back on.

I've checked / cleaned the gas cap multiple times and can't seem to find a connection to the problem in doing so. I've had the car up on jacks to check all of the electrical connections that were touched during the exhaust install. I don't see any melted wires, loose connections, signs of exhaust leaks, etc...

I am suspecting the O2 sensors as they were the only real electrical equipment removed and reinstalled during the exhaust installation. The only real noticeable symptom is that the car seems like it loses crisp low-end throttle response when the light is on, especially evident when in the higher gears (4th-6th). It also has a little bit rougher idle which I can't really feel, but have noticed it visually by watching the way the tail pipes vibrate. It never dies, sputters, etc...

This one's got me stumped. Is there a code scanner that I can buy at a parts store to check this out to see what kind of code it's throwing? Brand?/Part Number? Any other thoughts? Thanks in advance Viper experts!

 

[01sapphirebob]

Did you do the MOPAR PCM upgrade with the exhaust? I thought that was needed when any mod is done due to the VENOM controller. Just a thought. I could be wrong though.

 

[bdelass]

No, I didn't do the MOPAR PCM. The way I understood it, you could add it if you didn't like the decel popping but it wasn't necessary. Not sure though, I could be wrong. Is it possible that my car's computer just now adapting to the exhaust change which is throwing the SES light.

I did a search and read a few other threads saying just to take the car into Autozone and have them hook it up to their machine to pull the codes. Not to sure how keen I am on having the tech at "The Zone" tinkering with my Viper's electrics. I think I'd rather just buy the code scanner if I new which one to buy.

 

[TrackAire]

A lot of the National chain type autoparts stores will "loan" you a code reader using a credit card for a deposit. Super easy to use, at least you'll be able to see what codes it is throwing or are stored. Shouldn't be too hard to get resolved.

How many miles have you driven since installing the headers?

Cheers,
George

 

[bdelass]

I'd say I've put between 750-1000 miles on the car since the exhaust installation. Probably only SES light issues in the last 400-500 though.

Will the scanner have a universal hook-up which are compatible with the Gen IV cars?

 

[TrackAire]

Yes, universal plug in on any car 1996 and newer. You don't even have to let the store guy near your car. You just plug in the OBDII sensor to your OBDII port. Should be right under your dash above the clutch pedal IIRC. Then just follow the prompts on the readers LCD screen. Make sure to write down the codes that is shows.

Good luck,
George

 

[bdelass]

Cool...sounds like I've got something to do tomorrow now! I'll let everyone know what I find out.

Anyone else have this experience after installing the Belanger kit OR know if the MOPAR PCM is actually required to switch the exhaust on Gen IV cars?

Thanks!

 

[bluesrt]

Cool...sounds like I've got something to do tomorrow now! I'll let everyone know what I find out.

Anyone else have this experience after installing the Belanger kit OR know if the MOPAR PCM is actually required to switch the exhaust on Gen IV cars?

Thanks!

call woodhouse-- they are very knowledged at this--

 

[TrackAire]

After getting the codes, there is a good chance that it might not even have anything to do with the headers. Having the codes in hand will probably get you a very prompt answer form Woodhouse on how to solve the issue.

I guess if it's not the headers, it should be covered under warranty so that's the good news. Let us know what you find out tomorrow.

Cheers,
George

 

[Dan Cragin]

Most likely you have a cataylst code. The new system only has 2 cats not 4 and the computer does not see the new cats working as well as the old ones. Another possible problem could be the downstream O2 sensors. You need to route the wiring very carefully or it can short out and cause a check engine light. feel free to give me a call. 310-841-6996.

 

[bdelass]

So I headed on over to the "The Zone" first thing this morning...picked up a code scanner and pulled the codes. It found 2....P2096 and P2098.

I looked through all of the menus and was then able to clear the codes and turn OFF the SES light when the engine is running. I haven't taken it for a test drive yet or evaluated any of the "real-time driving" features, but any thoughts on what is the root cause of this issue might be. I assume it is something related to the cats / 02 temperature....maybe???

Any other things I should be checking? Thanks!

 

[bdelass]

Most likely you have a cataylst code. The new system only has 2 cats not 4 and the computer does not see the new cats working as well as the old ones. Another possible problem could be the downstream O2 sensors. You need to route the wiring very carefully or it can short out and cause a check engine light. feel free to give me a call. 310-841-6996.

Looks like you were right, Dan! Now what is the solution?

Maybe I will just cruise around with the scan tool attached and turn the light off every time it comes on...OR even better just return the scan tool to the parts store and put a piece of electrical tape over the light itself! Haha!

 

[Steve-Indy]

If you decide to buy a scan tool...be SURE that it works on YOUR car. Many are labeled as "OBD II CAN bus" readers...but are unable to link with a given model car. An Actron unit that I own says it works on CAN bus equipped vehicles...except it doesn't even link with our Jeep Commander nor our 2 CAN bus Vipers.

 

[Martin]

On every chrysler product I've owned, I've been able to read the codes by doing the key-on-key-off-three-times thing. The codes will show up in the digital odometer reading. To be honest, I haven't tried it in the ACR yet, but I'll bet that it works... The nice thing about doing that is it will display some of the specific codes that some code readers don't show. The codes are supposed to be 'universal' but I've found a few that are Viper specific.

 

[bdelass]

Like I said in the previous posts, I got a scanner this morning. I bought the OBDII Actron AutoScanner CP9575 from Autozone. It plugged right in and displayed the codes in the picture above immediately. It also gives real-time data on the screen. Going to take it for a test drive right now....

 

[redtanrt10]

Looks like you were right, Dan! Now what is the solution?

Bdelass, Dan's the expert but he's always told me that eventually cruising around with lite to moderate RPM's will ultimately trip the light as he noted due to the cat change.

Two solutions, keep clearing the codes, better solution, get the mopar ECU, lot's of benefits. If you've already done the belangers, take the next step with the ECU. Good luck, Mike

 

[mjf6175]

While I don't have a Belanger setup, I do have Corsa track with the Roe HF cats and have the same experience. I think Dan is absolutely right. It is because of the change in cats. There is not enough of a difference in the temperature readings between the primary and secondary O2 sensors and this throws a code. It may sometimes clear itself if the computer goes through enough cycles and the problem not arising again. My SES light would clear once in a while but now it is always on. I guess I am stuck getting a Mopar controller. Or what scanners are good to get that will clear the codes? Bdelass...does the controller you just bought clear the codes?

 

[bdelass]

Thanks guys! I went out this afternoon for a pretty long drive (100 miles or so) after clearing the codes and turning off the engine light. It was a mix of highway and stop-and-go driving. It seemed to run a little better with no return of the SES light....YET! I really have no reason or data to back this up, but it's been really hot here in St. Louis lately and this issue seems to happen less with the air temp is 85+. Does this make any sense at all or simply a coincidence???

Can someone explain or post a thread on how the new Mopar controller actually will help to solve this problem? I don't want to compound an underlying issue by adding a new variable to the mix. Does it somehow account for this change in exhaust with its internal settings? I know it does a few other things like raise the rev limiter, etc...

And yes mjf6175, the scanner that I bought this morning (model number posted above) does clear the codes and turns off the SES light. Honestly, I wouldn't even be concerned about this if there wasn't a small driveability issue with this problem in the slightly rough idle and loss of low end punch in gears 4-6.

 

[Garron]

Can someone explain or post a thread on how the new Mopar controller actually will help to solve this problem? I don't want to compound an underlying issue by adding a new variable to the mix. Does it somehow account for this change in exhaust with its internal settings? I know it does a few other things like raise the rev limiter, etc...

The mopar ecu does not care if you have cats on the vehicle or not. Cats are for emissions.

The light will comeback on if you keep the rpm low for a long perid of time.

 

[bdelass]

Ok, well then perhaps I will have to make a call to one of our friendly site sponsors this week for some pricing information!

 

[Cop Magnet]

Can someone explain to me why you guys with newer cars go to all this trouble rather than just taking the car in under warranty and asking the dealer to run the codes and clear them? That's what you've paid for.

 

[bdelass]

My answer is multi-fold....

1. Time. If you are somewhat handy and think you know what the problem is, then taking the time to schedule an appointment to get the car in to the dealer can be a PIA. In my case, I knew the problem was something related to the exhaust kit I had just installed, so this would have likely NOT have been covered under warranty and would have resulted in a service fee at the dealer anyway. And this fee would likely have been the cost of the scanner I bought anyway.

2. Distance. Unless I am mistaken, I don't have a Viper tech within 2.5 hours of me (Roanoke). I know you don't need one to run codes, but dealers around here can probably count on one hand how many Vipers they've worked on. NOT confidence inspiring to me!

3. Fun. Some of us simply just enjoy working on these cars from time to time regardless of warranty. Again, I knew my issue was related to my exhaust install so I wanted to try to figure it out. Plus, it was a Saturday and Sunday so it gave me a good reason to get out in the garage.

Those are my reasons...

 

[ViperGeorge]

Simply clearing the codes without fixing the underlying cause will only result in the eventual return of the codes. The Mopar controller, being for off road use only, is less sensitive than the stock controller since emissions are not a concern.

 

[bdelass]

Ok, so since the topic came up...what about emissions???

Is this going to be a problem when I get called in for an emissions test here in Illinois. To the best of my knowledge (and memory) they don't plug into the OBDII port for the test in my state. Will my readings at the tailpipe be within limits after adding the controller???

And what is the process for installation / removal of the Mopar controller? Can you (or is it easy to) swap back and forth for things like emissions testing if necessary?

Thanks!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

OK,
If you do not have the Mopar controller the CEL can and will come on with continuous driving under 1800-1900 rpm for extended periods This is as has been stated for a cat inefficiency code, triggered by the cats being to "cold" to work properly. This is why with more aggressive driving it will go off.

The Mopar controller eliminates this because the rear 02's are basically turned off, and is why it will not pass an emissions test.

Drive it like you stole it and there will be no need for the PCM swap unless you want the additional power and lack of codes, plus there is always the sharper throttle response it offers.