MadMaxx
Enthusiast
Our cars have a 6th gear?
I thought that was the cut-the-engine RPM selector
MadMaxx
I thought that was the cut-the-engine RPM selector
MadMaxx
6th gear top speed
- Thread starter MadMaxx
- Start date
garolittle
Enthusiast
Most Ricers are history by the 2nd or 3rd gear.
motor602
Enthusiast
WAIT WAIT WAIT, ok i am really really confused now. wahts this talk about 6th gear not pullin you to top speed? how do the car mags. do their top speed runs? whats goin on here???
motor602 <---- very very very confused
motor602 <---- very very very confused
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Little thing called wind. Pushing through wind at 160 MPH takes a lot of power, and the sixth gear is just to tall.
Put you bike on a steep incline (wind) and try and pedal in 10'th gear. See what I mean?
Later
Put you bike on a steep incline (wind) and try and pedal in 10'th gear. See what I mean?
Later
motor602
Enthusiast
so all the top speeds are in 5th gear? geez, so theoretically, there is still more in the car that they just physically can't get to? **** , its a little disheartening to hear that, that all this time a whole gear has not been able to be used, or somethin
Eddie N
Enthusiast
the gear IS being used, for overdrive aka gas saver gear.. im sure if you had enough power you could utilize 6th gear for a top speed run.. im not the best with gear ratios, but if you had enough power i think i recall the theoretical top speed in a viper is in the mid 200's, but dont quote me on that!!
most 6 speeds do top speed runs in 5th..
- eddie -
most 6 speeds do top speed runs in 5th..
- eddie -
viperct2001
Viper Owner
I saw a thread pasted below, and I was wondering why 6th gear has a slower top speed than 5th gear.
if I equate it to a 12 speed bike, the higher the gear, the faster you can go.
Usually this applies to car gears as well. So why does 6th gear "dog" at only 155mph? and 5th gear can do 180-190mph (stock)
_________________________
<thread pasted here>
Hello All,
I just purchased a new 2001 GTS about a month ago and I think that I'm going to need plastic sugery to remove the permanent smile from my face!
One slight bummer though...Last weekend I took it out for some high speed runs and it would ONLY go about 155 mph. Any ideas regarding what is limiting my top speed? If its a computer thing, can I somehow modify it?
Thanks for your help,
Jim
if I equate it to a 12 speed bike, the higher the gear, the faster you can go.
Usually this applies to car gears as well. So why does 6th gear "dog" at only 155mph? and 5th gear can do 180-190mph (stock)
_________________________
<thread pasted here>
Hello All,
I just purchased a new 2001 GTS about a month ago and I think that I'm going to need plastic sugery to remove the permanent smile from my face!
One slight bummer though...Last weekend I took it out for some high speed runs and it would ONLY go about 155 mph. Any ideas regarding what is limiting my top speed? If its a computer thing, can I somehow modify it?
Thanks for your help,
Jim
ruckdr
Enthusiast
Viperct2001,
Remember that 12th speed on the bike will go slower and slower, if you go up hill. Same thing with the Viper, it will not push enough air out of the way in 6th gear (not enough grunt), thus the speed is held down.
4th gear is 1:1
5th gear is 0.74:1 (overdrive)
6th gear is 0.50:1 (more overdrive)
Get a 5th gear at about 0.85:1, and a 6th at about 0.65:1, or something in those areas, and the pull in 5th and 6th would be outstanding.
Later,
Remember that 12th speed on the bike will go slower and slower, if you go up hill. Same thing with the Viper, it will not push enough air out of the way in 6th gear (not enough grunt), thus the speed is held down.
4th gear is 1:1
5th gear is 0.74:1 (overdrive)
6th gear is 0.50:1 (more overdrive)
Get a 5th gear at about 0.85:1, and a 6th at about 0.65:1, or something in those areas, and the pull in 5th and 6th would be outstanding.
Later,
Eddie N
Enthusiast
theres not enough grunt in the lower rpm range of the powerband to push a viper to its top speed in very tall 6th gear..
6th gear = gas saver gear
im sure the supercharged guys would easily pull top speed in 6th gear.. they have the power...
- eddie -
6th gear = gas saver gear
im sure the supercharged guys would easily pull top speed in 6th gear.. they have the power...
- eddie -
Jim Peffers
Viper Owner
Due to government interference and G** D*** PC'ness;
Dodge had to blunt the fangs of the Viper. If it was set up correctly for performance, top speed would be attainable in 6th. In other words, the 6th gear ratio would be more equivalent to what is now the 5th gear ratio and the remaining gear ratios would be a little closer together. If this was done, it would be at the expense of the 6th gear "ecomony super overdrive ratio" that is rarely used anyway. No amount of fiddling with the rear-end ratio will fix the problem - the only way to do it right is to change the internal transmission ratios and the rear-end ratio at the same time. I'm waiting for some enterprising person or company to offer this kit - I'm really surprised that it has not been done yet. Don't get me wrong, I love my Viper and I don't blame Dodge (they just did what they had to do); I'm just saying that it could be better. Maybe if I ever get some extra time, "Double Venom" and I will contact the tranny people and see what other gears are available.
viperct2001
Viper Owner
interesting analogy about the Viper's 6th gear is akin to "biking uphill" - not enough power.
oh what? Did I just say the Viper doesn't have enough power? Sacriledge!
So what are the RPMs at the Viper's max speed in 5th gear?
Does it reach redline in 5th? If not, why doesn't it reach redline? Drag coefficient and wind resistance?
Now theoretically if it does reach redline in 5th, then shifting to 6th gear after reaching the redline in 5th should enable you to go faster. Certainly if you are at 6200RPMs in 5th, by shifting into 6th, you should be at no less than 3000RPMs. there should be enough power in that RPM band.
but of course, if the maximum speed (~185mph) in 5th gear is only 4000-5000RPMs, I can see how shifting into 6th gear would make the RPMs too low.
**** , I've gone 160mph in 5th before, but never bothered to take a look at what the RPMs were.
oh what? Did I just say the Viper doesn't have enough power? Sacriledge!
So what are the RPMs at the Viper's max speed in 5th gear?
Does it reach redline in 5th? If not, why doesn't it reach redline? Drag coefficient and wind resistance?
Now theoretically if it does reach redline in 5th, then shifting to 6th gear after reaching the redline in 5th should enable you to go faster. Certainly if you are at 6200RPMs in 5th, by shifting into 6th, you should be at no less than 3000RPMs. there should be enough power in that RPM band.
but of course, if the maximum speed (~185mph) in 5th gear is only 4000-5000RPMs, I can see how shifting into 6th gear would make the RPMs too low.
**** , I've gone 160mph in 5th before, but never bothered to take a look at what the RPMs were.
ruckdr
Enthusiast
Jim P,
You are right, and I have thought for some time, that close ratio 5th and 6th gears would be good. See my above post.
True the 6th gear economy would be less, but even now cruising fast in 6th requires a shift to 5th to pull even freeway hills. I will not try to pull hills in 6th - no RPM, and I will not lug the motor.
Later,
You are right, and I have thought for some time, that close ratio 5th and 6th gears would be good. See my above post.
True the 6th gear economy would be less, but even now cruising fast in 6th requires a shift to 5th to pull even freeway hills. I will not try to pull hills in 6th - no RPM, and I will not lug the motor.
Later,
We are finishing up the final details on offering a kit to vastly improve the top end acceleration and speed of the Viper.
I will post more details later on today, but be rest assured that there will be a BIG boost in performance in the end!!!
Stay tuned!
-Wayne (LTHL VPR)
I will post more details later on today, but be rest assured that there will be a BIG boost in performance in the end!!!
Stay tuned!
-Wayne (LTHL VPR)
ruckdr
Enthusiast
viperct2001,
Go to this site and click 'set manual', this will show the Viper gear ratios with stock 3.07 Diff. ratio. Then click 'Show Gear Chart'. This will show speeds in each gear at increasing RPM. You will see that 185 MPH comes at about 5600 RPM, and 200 MPH comes at 6000 RPM in 5th gear. Now go up and put in 3.55 Diff. ratio, and notice the speed differences.
These numbers are theoretical, and have no external forces applied; that is, will the Viper overcome the external forces (air, tire friction, weight, etc.) to obtain the RPMs and thus the MPH ?? The answer is NO in 6th gear.
http://orbitdevelopment.com/viper/gears.asp
Later,
Go to this site and click 'set manual', this will show the Viper gear ratios with stock 3.07 Diff. ratio. Then click 'Show Gear Chart'. This will show speeds in each gear at increasing RPM. You will see that 185 MPH comes at about 5600 RPM, and 200 MPH comes at 6000 RPM in 5th gear. Now go up and put in 3.55 Diff. ratio, and notice the speed differences.
These numbers are theoretical, and have no external forces applied; that is, will the Viper overcome the external forces (air, tire friction, weight, etc.) to obtain the RPMs and thus the MPH ?? The answer is NO in 6th gear.
http://orbitdevelopment.com/viper/gears.asp
Later,
ruckdr
Enthusiast
Wayne, (LTHL VPR)
Yes, as asked, what are the 5th and 6th gear ratios,? and can the gear sets be purchased separately ?? How much ??
1st through 4th remain the same ??
Gears are gears and can be installed by any competent, stress competent, Dana trans. guy.
Later,
Yes, as asked, what are the 5th and 6th gear ratios,? and can the gear sets be purchased separately ?? How much ??
1st through 4th remain the same ??
Gears are gears and can be installed by any competent, stress competent, Dana trans. guy.
Later,
We have finalized our APEX exlcusive
![hail[1].gif](/vca/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fvca1.viperclub.org%2Fubb%2Fsmilies%2Fhail%5B1%5D.gif&hash=2ae7da1dfdc3fb136480c15ebf3e313e)
This upgraded transmission will drastically improve top end acceleration and overall top speed. As an added benefit, 6th gear is now much more usable (doesn't feel like you dropped anchor when you shift into 6th give it gas)!!!
We have used a different ratio 5th and 6th gear in the transmission to improve the Viper's top end performance and acceleration. Best of all, it's like getting the benefit of upgraded rear end gears without the downside of making first and second gear a bear to hook up or undrivable.
If you already have upgraded rear end gears...then )
We expect this package to help stock Vipers reach over the 200mph barrier. Viper with mods: significantly higher.
Whether you are a Silver State Classic participant, a Viper Days enthusiast, a Kamikaze street driver (we do not condone this), or a street car looking for better performance in 5th gear, and a usable 6th gear, this upgraded will be loved and appreciated by all!!
Inaugural SPECIAL:
First to order will receive a NEW Viper 6 speed tranny with upgraded 5th and 6th gears. $2995. We can also upgrade your stock tranny for $2295 (provided it is in perfect working condition and does not require any other work).
We have them ready to ship!!!
Call us at 408.562.1000 to place your order or with any questions!
Happy Vipering!
-Wayne (LTHL VPR)
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
I read that the THEORETICAL top speed of the SRT-10 would be 315 mph! If you put it in a tunnel and sucked all the air out, that would be the redline in 6th gear. I guess that also means that with a 100mph tailwind, you could do in the 290's?
jcaspar1
Enthusiast
What ratios are you putting in? It sounds like a great upgrade.
Here is a post I saved from long ago by David Wilkss.
"Can someone please tell me why if the viper can easily make 800+ horsepower, it cannot go easily into the upper 220 mile per hour speed zone. I was reading an article of the Corvette sledgehammer from the late 80's. It had 860HP and it achieved 252 miler per hour. Now I know that drag has a lot to do with it. But the Ruf Porsche had only 550hp and it got to 220 miles per hour also. The Viper is not that bad aerodynamically is it. you cant tell me that a Porsche is more aerodynamic than a Viper. A few years ago mario Andretti tested the fastest in the world in a road and track article. Hennessy had more horsepower than the RUF Porsche but the RUF Porsche beat it. In fact Hennessy could barely reach 200 miles per hour(205 mph).
Thanks***
The TRUTH is that a Viper can VERY EASILY hit 200+ miles per hour and it has NOTHING to do with having the HMS Venom Aero Kit on your car to make it go faster!!! Nor does it have to do with dropping the coefficient of drag to that of a Toyota Previa Minivan (Go look it up).
The TRUTH is that the GTS-R race cars have ALL sorts of DRAG inducing items like Splitters, WINGS, and fat A$$ED tires to slow them down.... So HOW do they hit 200+ mph with a restricted engine? The answer my friends is gear ratios. Get the right ones and a stock Viper can EASILY hit over 200+ mph without all the twin turbos in the WORLD!! I have proved it many times and have been preaching this SINCE the fall of the Old Car & Driver Viper BBS on AOL. That was even before Ole' Jon Buy knew everything.
More TRUTH... I have been changing these ratios FOREVER. Want to keep a STOCK appearing Viper yet kick the living $hit out of your competition...??? C'mon people... this is not the greatest cheating fact of SCCA Racing. The gain is a simple fact of acceleration. Keep the engine in its "Sweet Spot" and the car will Accelerate MUCH quicker. I have gotten a "Stock" Viper into the LOW 11's and posted 208.6 mph on my handheld GPS with nothing more than an Alignment and a tranny Swap. What are these Mystical Gearsets? Nothing more than what you can find at your local GM Parts counter.
How does it all work out...?? It goes like this: Change the rear end ratio to a wonderful 3.45:1 GM/Dana Gearset. Add the 1993 Camaro 1LE trans gearsets which are as follows:
1st/2.97, 2nd/2.07, 3rd/1.43, 4th/1.00, 5th/.80 6th/.62
The attainable speeds are as follows shifting at 6000 RPM:
1st/46, 2nd/66, 3rd/96, 4th/137, 5th/171, 6th/221
Noting that the GTS-R is capable of 7500 RPM and uses a 3.73:1 gearset, they have a Top Speed given the distance of, 256 MPH mathematically. This does coincide with the posted 240+ MPH attained by the Oreca cars at LeMans.
Here is a post I saved from long ago by David Wilkss.
"Can someone please tell me why if the viper can easily make 800+ horsepower, it cannot go easily into the upper 220 mile per hour speed zone. I was reading an article of the Corvette sledgehammer from the late 80's. It had 860HP and it achieved 252 miler per hour. Now I know that drag has a lot to do with it. But the Ruf Porsche had only 550hp and it got to 220 miles per hour also. The Viper is not that bad aerodynamically is it. you cant tell me that a Porsche is more aerodynamic than a Viper. A few years ago mario Andretti tested the fastest in the world in a road and track article. Hennessy had more horsepower than the RUF Porsche but the RUF Porsche beat it. In fact Hennessy could barely reach 200 miles per hour(205 mph).
Thanks***
The TRUTH is that a Viper can VERY EASILY hit 200+ miles per hour and it has NOTHING to do with having the HMS Venom Aero Kit on your car to make it go faster!!! Nor does it have to do with dropping the coefficient of drag to that of a Toyota Previa Minivan (Go look it up).
The TRUTH is that the GTS-R race cars have ALL sorts of DRAG inducing items like Splitters, WINGS, and fat A$$ED tires to slow them down.... So HOW do they hit 200+ mph with a restricted engine? The answer my friends is gear ratios. Get the right ones and a stock Viper can EASILY hit over 200+ mph without all the twin turbos in the WORLD!! I have proved it many times and have been preaching this SINCE the fall of the Old Car & Driver Viper BBS on AOL. That was even before Ole' Jon Buy knew everything.
More TRUTH... I have been changing these ratios FOREVER. Want to keep a STOCK appearing Viper yet kick the living $hit out of your competition...??? C'mon people... this is not the greatest cheating fact of SCCA Racing. The gain is a simple fact of acceleration. Keep the engine in its "Sweet Spot" and the car will Accelerate MUCH quicker. I have gotten a "Stock" Viper into the LOW 11's and posted 208.6 mph on my handheld GPS with nothing more than an Alignment and a tranny Swap. What are these Mystical Gearsets? Nothing more than what you can find at your local GM Parts counter.
How does it all work out...?? It goes like this: Change the rear end ratio to a wonderful 3.45:1 GM/Dana Gearset. Add the 1993 Camaro 1LE trans gearsets which are as follows:
1st/2.97, 2nd/2.07, 3rd/1.43, 4th/1.00, 5th/.80 6th/.62
The attainable speeds are as follows shifting at 6000 RPM:
1st/46, 2nd/66, 3rd/96, 4th/137, 5th/171, 6th/221
Noting that the GTS-R is capable of 7500 RPM and uses a 3.73:1 gearset, they have a Top Speed given the distance of, 256 MPH mathematically. This does coincide with the posted 240+ MPH attained by the Oreca cars at LeMans.
