"A Merger of Equals"

[safireviper]

\"A Merger of Equals\"

When Mercedes " merged " with Chrysler, there were 12 American and 12 Germans on the board of directors. It's now 23 Germans and 1 American. DC is a foreign run company with ALL the decisions being made from Europe.
With the exception of a few in here who think that this was a good move ( O.J. would have loved these guys at trial ) the Viper is on it's way out and it has lost most of the gains it had over the Corvette and the status it garnered all over the world. Sales of the SRT-10 are WAY off. But no one here see's the connection.
" Oh, please, Mr. Benz, give us a car with 550 - 625 horsepower. "
No! But we will give you a special color run. That's what you really want. Now, be off with yourselfs and just be happy we haven't cancelled it yet!
I'm sure they have the Viper's interest at heart. Don't you?

 

[AlbertFattal]

Re:

Agreed.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re:

Sure do, since the very first program approved by the Germans was .....drum roll........... the Viper. With Dieter Zetche becoming the CEO of Mercedes, we also have a friend at the very top who was instrumental in getting Benz back into F1, and he was a strong proponent for the Snake.

 

[safireviper]

Re:

Gee. A salesman who works for the company giving high praise to Ceasar. Anyone else?
Another question. I've asked this before. With the exception of the Lamborgini Contach -- name me another " classic " squared off design of a car that still remains a favorite after time. All one has to do is look at the Charger. It has to be the most aggresively ugly design in the Dodge lineup in years.....especially after the '99 concept was designed by the same guy who designed the '96 GTS.
Oh, I forgot -- we have Deiter on our side.....

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re:

Naw, just a very simple response to your last question that they (DC ) has the Viper's interest at heart.

 

[SRTRICKY]

Re:

Naw, just a very simple response to your last question that they (DC ) has the Viper's interest at heart.

I hope so or they might as well drop the Viper altogether instead of having to "clear" them out at really low prices! Or maybe they should build even fewer of them!!!!

 

[dirk989]

Re:

safireviper said, "Sales of the SRT-10 are WAY off"

Without getting into an argument about your other points, I just thought I'd point out that you are incorrect. The SRT-10 is selling in higher numbers and at a higher rate than previous Vipers.

However, DC made a big mistake when they decided not only to make many, many more SRT-10s than previous models, but also when they produced them more quickly than ever before.

In the past they made a few Vipers and most sold fairly quickly. Now they've made a ton of them. They come off the assembly line more quickly than before. They are selling in greater numbers than the GenI or GenII cars did, but still aren't selling as quickly as they are being produced.

I understand about being concerned about DC's committment to the Viper program, but your point that the SRT-10 sales are 'way off' is incorrect.

Dirk

 

[vipah]

Re:

safireviper said, "Sales of the SRT-10 are WAY off"

Without getting into an argument about your other points, I just thought I'd point out that you are incorrect. The SRT-10 is selling in higher numbers and at a higher rate than previous Vipers.

However, DC made a big mistake when they decided not only to make many, many more SRT-10s than previous models, but also when they produced them more quickly than ever before.

In the past they made a few Vipers and most sold fairly quickly. Now they've made a ton of them. They come off the assembly line more quickly than before. They are selling in greater numbers than the GenI or GenII cars did, but still aren't selling as quickly as they are being produced.

I understand about being concerned about DC's committment to the Viper program, but your point that the SRT-10 sales are 'way off' is incorrect.

Dirk

The Viper registry only showed SRT number for '03, which are in line with production since the late 90's. If this were the case for '04 and '05 then it would seem that sales are 'way off' since there still seem to be lots of 'new' '04s available.

??

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re:

safireviper said, "Sales of the SRT-10 are WAY off"

Without getting into an argument about your other points, I just thought I'd point out that you are incorrect. The SRT-10 is selling in higher numbers and at a higher rate than previous Vipers.

However, DC made a big mistake when they decided not only to make many, many more SRT-10s than previous models, but also when they produced them more quickly than ever before.

In the past they made a few Vipers and most sold fairly quickly. Now they've made a ton of them. They come off the assembly line more quickly than before. They are selling in greater numbers than the GenI or GenII cars did, but still aren't selling as quickly as they are being produced.

I understand about being concerned about DC's committment to the Viper program, but your point that the SRT-10 sales are 'way off' is incorrect.

Dirk

The Viper registry only showed SRT number for '03, which are in line with production since the late 90's. If this were the case for '04 and '05 then it would seem that sales are 'way off' since there still seem to be lots of 'new' '04s available.

??

Wrong. You did not run the numbers hard enough. Here are your numbers...
96 1883
97 1788
98 1216
99 1463
00 2007
01 1178
02 1622

03 1875
04 2435

See a trend there? With the exception of 00, I don't see how you can make the statement they are in line with the late 90's, they are certainly up from there. Here's the thread that breaks it down by color even. With some prelims on 05.

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB21&Number=534080&Forum=UBB21&Words=&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=6&Limit=25&Old=1year&Main=533440&Search=true#Post534080

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re: \"A Merger of Equals\"

When Mercedes " merged " with Chrysler, there were 12 American and 12 Germans on the board of directors. It's now 23 Germans and 1 American. DC is a foreign run company with ALL the decisions being made from Europe.
With the exception of a few in here who think that this was a good move ( O.J. would have loved these guys at trial ) the Viper is on it's way out and it has lost most of the gains it had over the Corvette and the status it garnered all over the world. Sales of the SRT-10 are WAY off. But no one here see's the connection.
" Oh, please, Mr. Benz, give us a car with 550 - 625 horsepower. "
No! But we will give you a special color run. That's what you really want. Now, be off with yourselfs and just be happy we haven't cancelled it yet!
I'm sure they have the Viper's interest at heart. Don't you?

What in the world set you off? Check the production numbers I just posted for the answer to your statement about sales being off, and remember car manufacturers count sales when they arrive at the dealer and not the end customer, so if there are some leftover 04's at smoking deals all the better for us the customer right now. And the merger of equals thing, even Kirk Kerkorian has given that up. Who gives a rip? Ever heard of a global economy? But forget that and NAFTA and CAFTA and all that if it troubles you and concentrate on the fact that Chrysler right now is the most profitable American manufacturer with the highest sales gains. GM's and Fords numbers ****, and they ain't got much decent new product either. Chrysler has set absolute records for introducing new product. Bob Lutz instituted Chrysler platform development to get the Solstice done in 3 years. Just look at the GTO vs the 300CSRT8. And forget the dang Corvette the tests are already coming out that are starting to hint it's not even the equal of the Viper, see the latest Road and Track, wait two months for all the side to side tests before you bury the Viper. And lay off Pemberton, he's not just a sales guy but a very competent racer and an owner who has contributed to this site not just with dollars but with badly needed information. He did not deserve the shot you gave him.

 

[Vic]

Re:

I'd have to say Bill Pemberton is a great individual, with a well-known reputation that is faultless.

I respect Germans, and admire their engineering and national character, I respect and admire their cars, (though I don't fit in them!), but still mourn the fact that a historic American brand is now owned by foreign interests. I guess thats how Brits felt when first VW, then BMW bought Rolls Royce, the great symbol of the British Empire. The sale of Rolls was a sad event for many Brits. Ford is no less guilty, buying Volvo, Aston Martin, Land Rover, etc. I would rather see them all be independant manufacturers, still symbols of a strong Britain. Some things should remain icons of a peoples, insitutions of their national pride, because that makes a nation strong and productive. The sale of America to foreign interests represents a new world economy that I find regrettable and sad. Call me old fashioned, say I'm not with the times, ok, I'm not. I still want to root for the home team, and feel proud about being an American, and supporting products and technology that typifies the national character and strength of America. If a product is made here, the profits should benefit our nation as a whole, because the export of products is the only way a nation builds wealth, where importing products exports wealth, and foreign ownership also exports wealth. Its for the greater good of every American in the long term, if our labor benefits our country, and profits from those labors get recycled through our financial "infrastructure". Thats' how nations get strong, and stay strong.

I want to wave the Stars and Stripes and feel great about my country. Dodge, or Chrysler, being owned by a foreign interest regardless of who, doesn't make me feel good about the brand. Many Toyotas, Hondas, and Hyundais are made in the USA, but they sure don't make me feel proud to be an American, why should buying a Dodge? Sure its made here, employs locals, but its not a true American brand if its not owned by Americans. One reason I liked the Viper in the first place, was that the "home team" "hit one out of the park", and that made me wanna stand up and cheer. Now I can only manage to clap politely.

Regardless of what happened to the former Chrysler, "Herr Pemberton" (heh heh) is one solid American, reliable, hardworking, witty, funny guy, and deserves respect. And I think they sell Fords also!

I know a German drinking song, Bill, and someday I'll sing it with ya over some Hefeweisen!

Guten Tag!

 

[safireviper]

Re:

I stand corrected. DC is the BEST run company in the world and we should get down on our hands and knees and thank Heaven that Chrysler is foreign controlled and run by people that have NO heritage at ALL with this country or our love of muscle cars. ( I love when people say a GLOBAL economy -- WE ARE the global economy! )
And if I gave Mr. Pemberton a shot as you say, he might be the most thin skinned salesman in Nebraska. I apologize. Sorry, Bill. Hands down you are the greatest Viper salesman in the Universe.
I expect the Viper to continue to be the greatest car in the world and that the entire automotive world will rejoice in that unquestioned FACT. It does NOT need any upgrades. No horsepower gains. No weight reduction. But HEY ! They did build a limited number of blue ones. Yea!
I guess that Corvette with it's continuing improvement of the model is a bad thing. Of course it is, because Mercedes gave us a blue one. And everyone knows the Viper doesn't need improvement -- it just needs new colors. I can see the next set of commercials now.
"Hey, does that thing got a Hemi?"
"No, but they put on new decal colored stripes which everyone knows makes the car go faster......"

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re:

I'd have to say Bill Pemberton is a great individual, with a well-known reputation that is faultless.

I respect Germans, and admire their engineering and national character, I respect and admire their cars, (though I don't fit in them!), but still mourn the fact that a historic American brand is now owned by foreign interests. I guess thats how Brits felt when first VW, then BMW bought Rolls Royce, the great symbol of the British Empire. The sale of Rolls was a sad event for many Brits. Ford is no less guilty, buying Volvo, Aston Martin, Land Rover, etc. I would rather see them all be independant manufacturers, still symbols of a strong Britain. Some things should remain icons of a peoples, insitutions of their national pride, because that makes a nation strong and productive. The sale of America to foreign interests represents a new world economy that I find regrettable and sad. Call me old fashioned, say I'm not with the times, ok, I'm not. I still want to root for the home team, and feel proud about being an American, and supporting products and technology that typifies the national character and strength of America. If a product is made here, the profits should benefit our nation as a whole, because the export of products is the only way a nation builds wealth, where importing products exports wealth, and foreign ownership also exports wealth. Its the for the greater good of every American in the long term, if our labor benefits our country, and profits from those labors get recycled through our financial "infrastructure".

I want to wave the Stars and Stripes and feel great about my country. Dodge, or Chrysler, being owned by a foreign interest regardless of who, doesn't make me feel good about the brand. Many Toyotas, Hondas, and Hyundais are made in the USA, but they sure don't make me feel proud to be an American, why should buying a Dodge? Sure its made here, employs locals, but its not a true American brand if its not owned by Americans. One reason I liked the Viper in the first place, was that the "home team" "hit one out of the park", and that made me wanna stand up and cheer. Now I can only manage to clap politely.

Regardless of what happened to the former Chrysler, "Herr Pemberton" (heh heh) is one solid American, reliable, hardworking, witty, funny guy, and deserves respect. And I think they sell Fords also!

Guten Tag!

Mein freund. I agree with a lot you say and in a perfect world it would be nice to have the home team 100% red white and blue. But the ultmate barometer should be employment, and that drives the economy, with full employment, people have wages and they spend the bucks to drive the economy. I think it's safe to say that even if there are a bunch of Deutchlanders running around Auburn Hills (And I've been there and it does not seem as if there are) I think it's safe to say that 99.9% of the workers in the plants are Americans. And Chrysler is not talking MAJOR layoffs like Ford is, for the first time in history OR trying to take away benefits and layoff workers like GM. So for the blue collar American working man, DC looks better than the other two regardless of what language the guys in the executive suite slip into occasionaly. Nicht Wahr?

 

[Vic]

Re:

Hmmm, let me think about it?

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Re:

I stand corrected. DC is the BEST run company in the world and we should get down on our hands and knees and thank Heaven that Chrysler is foreign controlled and run by people that have NO heritage at ALL with this country or our love of muscle cars. ( I love when people say a GLOBAL economy -- WE ARE the global economy! )
And if I gave Mr. Pemberton a shot as you say, he might be the most thin skinned salesman in Nebraska. I apologize. Sorry, Bill. Hands down you are the greatest Viper salesman in the Universe.
I expect the Viper to continue to be the greatest car in the world and that the entire automotive world will rejoice in that unquestioned FACT. It does NOT need any upgrades. No horsepower gains. No weight reduction. But HEY ! They did build a limited number of blue ones. Yea!
I guess that Corvette with it's continuing improvement of the model is a bad thing. Of course it is, because Mercedes gave us a blue one. And everyone knows the Viper doesn't need improvement -- it just needs new colors. I can see the next set of commercials now.
"Hey, does that thing got a Hemi?"
"No, but they put on new decal colored stripes which everyone knows makes the car go faster......"

Dude, we are NOT the global economy. Ever heard of a couple countries named China and Taiwan. Ever notice how many of our products are made there. Do you know anything about balance of trade and exports and realize we buy MUCH more imports than we export? We are NOT the world leader anymore. And when you start to use words like heritage, as in they just don't have any American heritage it almost sounds like some kind of anti european racism. Where the heck do you think YOU came from. The average caucasian American can almost ALWAYS trace his roots to Europe, with the majority coming from England or GERMANY. And face it, your only gripe anyway is that the new Viper does not have 50-100 more horsepower. If it did you would be in here singing the Deutchlanders praises. Deutchland uber alles! And Pemberton ain't thin skinned at all, as he showed in his reply to you. I just thought you were rude to imply that he was a anything less than candid just because he sells the cars, nobody could possibly be more honest or upfront with his customers regarding the downsides of any model. He calls them like he sees them, it does not matter if he's selling them. That's why he's so well liked here. And you might not know it but in terms of numbers of Vipers sold he actually is "Hands down the greatest Viper salesman in the world" LOL!

 

[Vipermann]

Re: \"A Merger of Equals\"

Geez, Is this a *** thread, or what?

I'm happy with my '05 C O N V E R T A B L E 500+ HP Viper regarless of what the built-with-plastic Z06 might offer. (I can't wait to see all the regular Vettes with stick-on fake side scoupes like the Z06).

And in a year or two, Dodge will tweak the HP up to 550, change a few gears, and it will be case closed again.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re:

No apology necessary, as I am not the most thin skinned Salesman in Nebraska. I believe that honor is bestowed on some guy down in the Capital City of Lincoln, and my condition is just one of age and wrinkles - so glad you noticed , though.
Best Viper Salesman in the Universe, oh peshawwww, you are just being flattering and so now I guess I should thank you for the fine compliment. I think we are all starting to enjoy your posts now, as you have suddenly become logical , warm and fuzzy, and one to listen to reason. Best darn car company in the World , yes sir, glad you noticed and I hope you have a wonderful day?

 

[viperdrummer]

Re:

Safireviper:

Don't get too energized about Corvette. I just came out of a C6--a nice car, but not all that the media made it out to be. I suspect the same will be true of the Z06 with the illing media fawning all over it till something else comes along. The Vettes are "nice" cars but do not have the fit, finish or panache of the Viper. In summary, I would find something else to wring your hands about.
It is true, however--Pemberton is a huge Daimler-C **** up , and as my wife will attest, is pure evil. I can't for the life of me figure out why I keep buying cars from him. Now that he has been outed, I intend never to do business with that ***** loving vermin again . (or at least until he calls me about a new car)

 

[safireviper]

Re:

I know nothing about trade or economics or anything for that matter. I blindly follow. I do not lead. And people who speak German could never be evil.

 

[safireviper]

Re:

Lee -- you are precisely making my point. We don't make anything -- we buy it. China pays it's people 5 dollars a day. What are they going to buy from us at those wages? Hence the TRADE deficet. We buy MORE than we get back. Is that how you argue for a global economy? We make up less than 10% of the population but we consume over 75% of products made GLOBALLY.
We export four things. Entertainment ( music and films )
Computers ( not for long ) food and military hardware.
We once led in steel, textiles, autos, planes, trains, televisions, radios...the list goes on and on.
I don't hold the same warm and fuzzy outlook you have for Mercedes and that it was blessing it conquered Chrysler.
Kirk Krekorian was right. The merge was based on a false premise. Explain this to me and others.
And as far as heritage goes -- I'm speaking of " muscle car " heritage that was born here. Not the cultural heritage of our anscestors.
However, I can tell no amount of explanation will do. Oh, that's right, I must be once of those " racists " that get tagged for saying things as they are.
DC has our best interests at heart. Everyone including Mr. Krekorian knows that.
Hail, Deiter!

 

[safireviper]

Re:

and just to set the record straight --- Bill Pemberton was very nice to me when I spoke to him a few years ago. He was. Too expensve for me but a nice guy just the same.
All I want to see is the ORIGINAL concept of the Viper to be returned. That's all.
I just feel the direction that this company is going -- from body design to model make-up and priorities -- is way off.
So, how soon can we expect a Sassy Grass green limited run Viper?

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re:

Sure do, since the very first program approved by the Germans was .....drum roll........... the Viper. With Dieter Zetche becoming the CEO of Mercedes, we also have a friend at the very top who was instrumental in getting Benz back into F1, and he was a strong proponent for the Snake.

Bill,
I thought the Viper was first developed in 1989 and built in 1992 by AMERICANS....well before Mercedes and Zetche had any involvement?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re:

Devildog,

You are so correct, and rereading my post I realize it wasn't very succinct. When the merger occurred, all programs were reviewed , like they would be with any type of melding of companies. The first platform/vehicle that was approved as a continuing model, etc. was the Viper. With all the wins in Europe in the FIA ( Oreca Vipers ) , there was a very strong regard for the Snake by Daimler, and virtually no hesitation in continuing the build process. Appreciate the correction , as it did read a bit confusing.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re:

Bill,
That's cool. I wish DC would hook up with Oreca again and kick some Vette butt at Le Mans.

 

[MaxedGTS]

Re:

Bill,
That's cool. I wish DC would hook up with Oreca again and kick some Vette butt at Le Mans.

you and me on that one