Best wideband 02 gauge

[JohnnyBravo]

I am looking at buying a wideband 02 gauge to moniter air/fuel on my blown GTS.

My choices are:

(1) Dynojet Wideband Commander
(2) Innovate with optional gauge
(3) AEM UEGO

It has to have a 2 1/16 gauge that you can mount in a steering column pod or pillar pod.

Any input on accuracy or logging abilities, etc?

I'm leaning towards the UEGO, but I'm open to suggestions.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I have a Dynojet Wideband Commander but lack any comparison info. It is capable of measuring several factors simultaneously for later analysis (f/a, rpm, MAP, fuel pressure, etc)

 

[Mr Hemi Head]

Where is Schulmann? He has both the Innovative and Dynojet W/B meters but they don't agree and last I heard he does not know which is correct.

What ever you decide on wired to the VEC2 helps make tuning a DIY project, with Seans guidance.

 

[Shelby3]

The Dynojet 2 1/16" matches the Viper gauges almost perfectly.

 

[Jack B]

Not to slight anyone, however, if you do the comparison the Innovate is a far better device. Two of the the key features is a faster sampling rate and the ability to self correct the O2 for age and for ambient conditions. The Dynojet uses a technology that is affected by pressure and temperature, thus, changing the output data relative to placement.

If you want to go one step further the Innovate software now makes the parts and pieces a complete logging system. I now pick up (from the PCM) throttle position, IAT and RPM. I also monitor fuel pressure (autometer) and acceleration from the the Innovate Aux Box. this is all logged with the LM1. The Xd gauge also fits perfectly in the viper dash pods. Take a look at the forums on Innovate and WBC and you will see a huge difference.

The chief engineer for Innovate (Klaus) has an amazing knowledge base and will answer all questions. As an example I was having a problem correlating the LM1 to a dynojet reading. The problem is the dyno operator (very common) was using a large smoothing factor on the a/f curve. The problem is when you use real time smoothing it is an average, therefore, the curve is very inaccurate from 2500 thru 4000 and only gets accurate after 4000. The reason being, the a/f prior to the start of the pull is averaged into the first 1000 or so rpm. Klaus knew immediately what the issue was, that is valuable. If you dyno in the future have him turn off smoothing during the run. With the LM1 you can always smooth after the fact. Take a look at any dynojet a/f curve, that is not real world.

 

[Travis]

FJO is the best brand wideband on the market, bar none.

 

[Schulmann]

From my point of view:

Before January 2005 best choice was WBC.
From May 2005 best choice is LC-1 and XD-1 ( from Innovate).

Since May Innovate released two greate products XD-1 and LC-1. If you have a VEC2 you can connect two LC-1 unit to its input ports on the slave. The two LC-1 unit will transform your VEC2 unit into a greate mobile dyno. LC-1 one is really "cheap" only 199$ each unit.

If you have a VEC2 you don't need the LMA-3 unit or a WBC, since VEC2 has almost all their functions.

I think with the release of the LC-1, the WBC doesn't offer anything interesting (except if you don't own a VEC2) and became an outdate product for its price ($499). For $400 you get two LC-1 !


Regarding quality:
In addition WBC doesn't seem to be as accurate as Innovate in lower AFR. I think it is a software issue within WBC unit. WBC is not following the right Oxygen sensor curve (which is not a straight line). I even installed the same Oxygen sensor on my WBC unit as on the XD-1. There is still a difference.

 

[ViperRichRT10]

Since May Innovate released two greate products XD-1 and LC-1. If you have a VEC2 you can connect two LC-1 unit to its input ports on the slave. The two LC-1 unit will transform your VEC2 unit into a greate mobile dyno. LC-1 one is really "cheap" only 199$ each unit.

Where did you find it for $199????

Thanks!

 

[Earl_H]

Since May Innovate released two greate products XD-1 and LC-1. If you have a VEC2 you can connect two LC-1 unit to its input ports on the slave. The two LC-1 unit will transform your VEC2 unit into a greate mobile dyno. LC-1 one is really "cheap" only 199$ each unit.

Where did you find it for $199????

Thanks!

I just ordered one a little bit ago from Summit Racing for $199 + S&H

 

[Schulmann]

You can also buy the LC-1 at innovate.com

 

[Travis]

You guys do realize that if you use a wideband with a Bosch sensor, that leaded race fuel will kill it almost instantly? A unit that uses a NTK sensor(like the FJO) will handle leaded fuel MUCH better. I've actually never heard of a fuel related sensor failure with a NTK sensor.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

So would the Innovate LC-1 with XD-1 gauge (along with my VEC2) give me all the same functions as the LM-1?

I just want to get a standalone wideband 02 with a gauge so I can monitor my air/fuel while heading down the track. Logging would be nice, but I want something I can see right in front of me at a glance.

 

[Schulmann]

For the standalone system you need an XD-1 with each LC-1. But you can also get away with one XD-1 the system is very flexible. LM-1 is a basic tool. The LMA-3 unit is the "equivalent" of the VEC2 but LMA-3 only logs and doesn't allow tuning.

Travis is right, leaded fuel will kill all the sensors even the stock ones .... Personnaly I just bought 15gl of LV103 unleaded fuel.

 

[ViperBing]

From my point of view:

I think with the release of the LC-1, the WBC doesn't offer anything interesting (except if you don't own a VEC2) and became an outdate product for its price ($499). For $400 you get two LC-1 !


Regarding quality:
In addition WBC doesn't seem to be as accurate as Innovate in lower AFR. I think it is a software issue within WBC unit. WBC is not following the right Oxygen sensor curve (which is not a straight line). I even installed the same Oxygen sensor on my WBC unit as on the XD-1. There is still a difference.

I was wondering how you came to the conclusion that the WBC is the inaccurate unit?

Also, how much is it off?

 

[Schulmann]

ViperBing,

Search this site for my posts on WBC.
The WBC unit is off around 0.4V (0.6AFR) under 13AFR.
I have tried everything.
I even called DynoJet ....

 

[VIPER D]

I use the plx

http://www.plxdevices.com


vd..

 

[Jack B]

JohnnyBravo:

It is not realistic to watch an a/f gauge, especially with a modded car (two many things happening too fast). A real time a/f curve is not like those you see on the dyno logs, the curve is not straight or sloped, it oscillates quite a bit prior to smoothing, therefore, the numbers are changing all the time, you cannot follow them accurately and safely.

Logging is an absolute necessity, but, on the other hand you can also program the Innovate XD gauge to give you a warning when you approach a preprogrammed a/f value. You will have to set filters otherwise it will be going off all the time. The XD gauge has a digital readout, plus a set of rotating leds. I have mine programed to flash bright red when the a/f exceeds 12.5 (with nitrous) at wot and over 3000 rpms. The XD gauge is also nice because you can permenantly mount the LM1 under the seat and accuate the log via a button the gauge.

 

[JohnnyBravo]

JohnnyBravo:

It is not realistic to watch an a/f gauge, especially with a modded car (two many things happening too fast). A real time a/f curve is not like those you see on the dyno logs, the curve is not straight or sloped, it oscillates quite a bit prior to smoothing, therefore, the numbers are changing all the time, you cannot follow them accurately and safely.

Logging is an absolute necessity, but, on the other hand you can also program the Innovate XD gauge to give you a warning when you approach a preprogrammed a/f value. You will have to set filters otherwise it will be going off all the time. The XD gauge has a digital readout, plus a set of rotating leds. I have mine programed to flash bright red when the a/f exceeds 12.5 (with nitrous) at wot and over 3000 rpms. The XD gauge is also nice because you can permenantly mount the LM1 under the seat and accuate the log via a button the gauge.

So do I need the LM-1 kit PLUS the XD-1 gauge to do that? I was just looking at the standalone gauge kit, which is the LC-1 and the XD-1. Can you not datalog with just the LC-1 and XD-1?

 

[KenH]

I have run the WBC setup for about 10,000 miles and it seems to work fine as far as I can tell. To parrot what was said up above, it is pretty much impossible to use an A/F gauge to keep a close eye on the A/F during WOT. An analog gauge is better for this in my opinion since it tends to do some of the smoothing for you, but still pretty much useless other than for getting a general feel for whether you are on the rich or lean side. A warning light for lean A/F would be a nice feature to have as well.

I went with the WBC because it was self contained as in I didn't need to mess with a handheld box, but instead mounted in my engine compartment, I could plumb it into my VEC2 and it had a nice looking gauge that matched the Viper gauges.

The LC-1 wasn't available at that time. If I were to do it again, I think I would go with the LC-1 so that I could run both banks into my VEC2. Logging the A/F along with all the other stuff that the VEC2 can log makes a pretty powerful tuning tool. If you can get away with just a $400 price tag for this setup, that is a heck of a deal. I may switch over to this setup myself if I can verify that I wouldn't also need the LM-1 to program the LC-1 for initial setup.

It's unclear if you have a system that you can log the A/F into or not, so that may also affect your decision. If not, then I would lean toward the LM-1. The WBC can log, but it seems to be a little more cumbersome to use this feature on the WBC than on the LM-1. Also the LM-1 seems to have a better proven accuracy than the WBC. I don't know anything about the UEGO.

 

[Jack B]

JohnnyBravo:

The LC1 is merely the wideband hardware that gets read by either a gauge or logger such as the LM1. It was brought out for those that did not need to log or already had a logger. If you buy the XD gauge and the LM1 you will be able to view the gauge and log the a/f.

The problem is that you still need to correlate rpms with a/f to tune your car or adjust settings with the VEC. You will need either the aux box or rpm converter to get the rpm signal into the LM1. Once you have either one you can now also pick up signals off of the pcm (throttle, iat, speed, etc). The advantage of the aux box is that it has a built in accelerometer, which allows you to log hp and torque. The aux box also allows filtering and modifications of any input.

The LM1 has the capability to log for 44 minutes, therefore, you could log entire track sessions without worrying about a laptop. It is bullet proof, even if you turn the car off without shutting dowm the logger, it still retains the data.

 

[KenH]

JohnnyBravo:

The LC1 is merely the wideband hardware that gets read by either a gauge or logger such as the LM1. It was brought out for those that did not need to log or already had a logger. If you buy the XD gauge and the LM1 you will be able to view the gauge and log the a/f.

The problem is that you still need to correlate rpms with a/f to tune your car or adjust settings with the VEC.

Actually, the VEC2 is a complete logging system and can take the LC-1 analog output, convert it to A/F and log it against RPM for tuning with no extra hardware needed. It can also log against injector pulsewidth, ignition timing, boost and other things that are difficult to do with an external box.

 

[viper spray]

I run the AEM .

 

[Jack B]

KenH:

I was trying to be diplomatic, the VEC graphing capability is not close to Innovate, it has limited logging time and if you forget to close out, you lose the run. It is a great tuning device, but, right now it is a luke warm logger. I still wouldn't be without mine, but, for different reasons.

 

[Schulmann]

JackB,

There is an option in the VEC2 where you can auto save the log files without hitting the save botton. However a 20 min run would be split in 4 files each 5 min length. To access this option, hit F4 in the log screen and in the bottom right side of the options screen you will see this auto save feature. You can also specify a prefix for the file name.

Sean, is working strong with the company that makes the VEC2 software to make it more user friendly and fix certain bugs ... I think his next big product will be a highly improved VEC2 software.