Bummer - 'End of Viper'

Vypr Phil

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End of Viper...under Chrysler/Dodge/Cerberus ownership.

From the second article mentioned above:

"The Conner Avenue plant in Detroit, where 115 workers make the niche Viper muscle car, will not stay with the company after bankruptcy, according to the filing. But Chrysler had already said that the Viper model and the plant were up for sale."

Although this may well be the toughest of times most of us have seen during our lifetime, I am far from willing to say "Adios, Good Buddy" to the Viper just yet.

If it is not part of the bankruptcy, would this then not mean there is a buyer for the Viper line in the wings, therefore assuring survival and continuity.

Everybody take a deep breath and chill!

Our National President mentioned somewhere else today that there will be big news to be announced by none other than the Grailkeeper himself in the next few days.

Phil
 

Bobpantax

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Any pending sale of the Viper Enterprise negotiated prior to the filing would still have to be approved by the Bankruptcy Court. However, what the phrase above might mean is that the assets which make up the "Viper Enterprise" will not be part of the New Chrysler Enterprise which will emerge from the semi prepackaged Chapter 11 that was just filed. If that is the case, the pending sale of the Viper Enterprise is either a done and basically accepted deal or the intended buyers backed off on signing the deal until the bankruptcy was filed and now will finish the deal at the best price they can get knowing that the sale of the Viper Enterprise is basically a fire sale of unwanted assets. Keep in mind that the final price of the Viper Enterprise will probably not be a significant sum when viewed in the context of the overall Chrysler bankruptcy. Do I know any of the above is true? No. Just using some common sense.
 

Y2K5SRT

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Guys (and gals), let's try and set the record straight and establish the sky isn't falling and THE VIPER IS NOT DEAD - not by a long shot. Remember that news outlets make money by attracting readers. They attract readers with sensational stories like

OCTOMOM HAS SURPRISE NINTH BABY, NOW CALLED NINAMOM
"I guess he was just hiding there the whole time"

SWINE FLU FOUND IN DRINKING WATER
"Infected water discovered in trough at pig farm in rural Mexico"

CHRYSLER PLANT CLOSURE SPELLS END OF VIPER

"If you skip the fine print, UAW contracts, and everything else"

First, let's look at a more complete article that skips the hype and reports facts, like this one:

Chrysler to close 5 more plants; court case begins

Now, a couple quotes that are CRITICAL in this article and are facts that Left Lane chose to leave out:

  1. The lead-in: "NEW YORK – Attorneys for Chrysler LLC said the company will file a motion by Saturday morning to sell substantially all of its assets to Italian automaker Fiat Group SpA, but that won't include eight plants, including five that the automaker revealed it will shutter by the end of next year."
  2. It then goes on to say, "The eight plants would be left out of a deal for Italy's Fiat to buy the U.S. carmaker's most valuable assets in bankruptcy. Instead, the "new Chrysler" would lease the plants then shutter them by December 2010."
Now, does anybody remember the "CAAP closing" thread regarding UAW negotiations? Yep, over a year and a half ago they announced that CAAP was closing and we held a moment of silence. Then we read the fine print directly from the UAW and learned that CAAP would stay open, by contract with the UAW, through the end of the current product lifecycle. Well folks, the current Viper is certified through 2010, they are already planning some different (non-certification) things for it, and will shortly announce a new option that is ready for ordering on the 2009 (two people already ordered it).

So this "closing" should come as no surprise as we learned about it almost two years ago. What we didn't know at the time was that Chrysler would offer to sell the platform to an outside buyer. We have since learned that they not only made the offer, but have at least four interested parties. And guess what? That hasn't changed a bit. People are ordering Vipers, the plant is building them, and more are to come. So, one more time with the facts:

  1. This closing was already announced well over a year ago
  2. They further defined it today and are planning to close it at the end of 2010
  3. That means that not only will 2009's continue, but 2010's look like a lock
  4. They are in active discussions with potential buyers of the platform
  5. Those buyers may have the option of buying the plant or doing something else
  6. They have numerous sold orders still left to build (by contract)
  7. They continue to develop different options for the Viper - one to be announced shortly
And finally, we would politely remind everybody that the VCA has had the privilege of working directly with the manufacturer for years, as well as the owners and even a potential buyer or three. We are in discussions with all concerned parties on an almost-daily basis, including several calls today. The Viper isn't dead. The Viper isn't on its last legs. The Viper is very much alive, well, and ready to continue kicking asp!

Respectfully submitted,

Chris Marshall, National President
Marv Spatz, National Vice President
Lee Stubberfield, National Treasurer
Bobby Cerchione, National Secretary
 
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Martin

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That's great news Chris!! Thanks for taking the time to post because a lot of us were getting pretty worried. Crazy things can happen during bankruptcy proceedings, and since most of us aren't contracts attornies, we have no idea which contracts will and will not carry on through the proceedings. If the plant is good to go through 2010, that's great news!!

If the option is the body colored stripe, I wish they'd announce it soon so that I might beg and plead to have it added to my order :)
 

Y2K5SRT

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If the option is the body colored stripe, I wish they'd announce it soon so that I might beg and plead to have it added to my order :)
Awwww, you guessed it! Do you like "hot pink"? :D

And no, it's not the stripe and you won't be changing your order in all likelihood - but others might...
 
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Martin

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Awwww, you guessed it! Do you like "hot pink"? :D

And no, it's not the stripe and you won't be changing your order in all likelihood - but others might...

Hmm - hot pink, huh? Maybe the g/f would finally warm up to the idea of a stripe on the car and not tell me "that's *** - you're an old man, you need to kick the boy racer thing, it just doesn't work for you anymore." :) She has a thing for pink... She's also 20 years younger than me, but that's another story...

Interested to hear the option. I'm guessing it's a non ACR option...
 

GR8_ASP

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The reality is no one, not even Bob Nardelli, knows what Judge Gonzalez will rule on once this gets into proceedings. Hoyle, in this case, is only the incoming arguments. Anyone who says they know for a fact what will happen is pulling your leg. Note words to that effect were told to senior management Thursday afternoon by Nardelli. Clearly the only one in control is a federal judge.
 

Y2K5SRT

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The reality is no one, not even Bob Nardelli, knows what Judge Gonzalez will rule on once this gets into proceedings. Hoyle, in this case, is only the incoming arguments. Anyone who says they know for a fact what will happen is pulling your leg. Note words to that effect were told to senior management Thursday afternoon by Nardelli. Clearly the only one in control is a federal judge.
While I love all of our Chrysler products (we now have four), I can't begin to tell you where any others will fall. But I am confident that the plans for the Viper are solid and make excellent sense for all concerned parties. This exact situation has been anticipated as a possibility for some time now.

I hope all is well in your end of the world!
 

J&R3xV10

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thanks for setting the rumors straight Chris, keep us updated when you can about the new info.
 

Paul Hawker

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Viper always has a plan "B".

Just as snakes have found a way to survive and prosper in almost every corner of the Earth, the Viper has found a way to survive.

Maybe it is its manifest destiny.

There is still a raving fans customer base for an American, high torque, hold no prisoners type of car for independant minded people.

Let the others drive their Prius or Fiats. Just make a few Vipers a year for us is all we ask.

Viva las VIPERS!
 
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Martin

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thanks for setting the rumors straight Chris, keep us updated when you can about the new info.

I second that - whatever you can share in this community is appreciated. The hardest part about living in the information overload age is that we can easily get bad info when trusted info isn't readily available. This is an extreme case where most of us know what it is like when a BK Judge is calling the shots - that throws a huge, smelly, **** grenade onto our usually sedate dancefloor... Chaos can erupt quickly, and everyone is left wondering "what the f...?".
 

Spdrcrj25

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I hope Vipers will be around for awhile. I'm going to be looking for an ACR end of next year once my post Air Force future is set.
 

alpha85

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The problem is Chrysler & GM are going to be owned 55% by the unions. Thats kind of like the kids in charge of the cookie jar. I guess this was Obama's payback to the unions for the election. I may have become a Ford buyer.
 

Bobpantax

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If a purchase of the Viper Enterprise was a good deal before the bankruptcy filing, it is a great deal now. The seller ,and probably the creditors, are even more motivated to stop screwing around and get the deal done. In case my post above gave the wrong impression, I believe a deal will be done and the organization known now as the Viper Enterprise will, under new ownership, be freed from multiple layers of corporate bureacracy that must have consumed budget and wasted valuable time over the years. I think that we are going to see a meaner, lighter, faster snake in our future and I am excited about it.
 

viperdrummer

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You guys know a lot more than the rest of us and I hope you are right. But in 25 years of practicing law I have seen a lot of sure fire deals that everyone thought were going to happen end up cratering.

Again, to have this much confidence, I suspect this must look like folks are at the altar.:D
 

Mopar Boy

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Random speculation - Maybe Fiat is interested in Viper as they understand that market of company halo vehicles and their importance. And maybe this is why there was a delay in a buyer being named as Fiat wanted Viper to stay with the brand when they got it.

And maybe I am way out there too!;)

But in the end, I do feel the Viper will live on!

Robert
 

speedpup

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The Conner Avenue plant that makes the Dodge Viper will be divested. Chrysler has been trying to sell the Viper division for a year and has had interested parties but cemented no deals.

The above is from Detroit News
 

Lucid

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I thought the new socialist gummyment was supposed to stop this.

It would be sweet if someone picked up the viper brand and merge it into their company
Honestly I don't care for the rest of chrylsers offerings and it would be nice to get servicing
Befitting a 100k car.
 

Nyoka

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The Viper is a money-making proposition to any capable group, organized properly. With a non-unionized CAAP, wholesale (factory) operating margins would have to be in the ~20% range, or ~$13,000 per unit on average annual sales to dealers of 1,600 units @$65K (wholesale). That's >$20 Million free cash flow annually to cover R&D, warranties, marketing, overheads, debt service, etc. Tight, initially, for sure, but this is a niche business and less price sensitive, so margin improvement should be possible over time. Presently, as a 'division' of something bigger, it's a rounding error on the balance sheet and gets the Rodney Dangerfield treatment; it needs to be run as a stand-alone entity.

The platform will likely sell for well less than $100 Million so, even at that price point, 4,000 VCA members back-stopping $25,000 each, arguably, could pull this off (and should try to, if it looks like it's going down the drain).

I believe the marque will survive and prosper under new ownership but that market forces will, regrettably, morph it into a more traditional supercar. Techno-nannies will be a likely first step (or at least an option), adding $25K to the selling price while broadening its appeal (and increasing per-unit profitability). Ferrari types, looking for a more "pure" driving experience, will then be naturally drawn to the marque, willing to pay a premium (over today's base) for a Viper they can finally drive. Then they'll start demanding calfskin leather...

Personally, I'd love to see a purist like Penske get his hands on the marque. He has the necessary deep pockets and a dealer network already established. And we know that he's a gear-head down to his marrow - a good one, too.
 

slaughterj

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The platform will likely sell for well less than $100 Million so, even at that price point, 4,000 VCA members back-stopping $25,000 each, arguably, could pull this off (and should try to, if it looks like it's going down the drain).

Sounds great, everybody send me a check and I'll get the deal done!

Note, there are other financial opportunities available with the Viper platform, including items such as toy cars, t-shirts, etc., advertising opportunities, and certainly other more significant options not directly involving actual car sales, which if provided more emphasis, could generate some nice additional revenue.
 

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