Can someone explain a VEC2

Hockeysnake

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So after doing all of the body mods I am ready to increase the performance. I have a 2000 GTS with the usual mods, K&N's, Smooth tubes, and After market cat back exhaust.

I have heard about the VEC2 but do not know if it is the best thing to look at right now...or is it?

Any help is appreciated.
 

plumcrazy

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i cant explain it well but i can tell ya this, its probably the best thing i have done to my car yet. very reliable and it DOES make a difference.
 

Joseph Dell

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Won't make that much of a difference on your car, hockeysnake. a VEC2 is a piggy-back computer that lets you modify air fuel ratio (by modifying fuel injector pulse) and ignition (by advancing or retarding the timing).

A VEC2 on a mostly stock car (such as yours) could net you 10-50rwhp. it'll cost you 1k for the VEC2, dyno time, and someone to tune it. one of the "generic" cards that come w/ the VEC2 won't do squat for you.

hate to say it, but this wouldn't be the mod $$ spent on your car...

JD
 

Racer Robbie

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Honeysnake, On a stock car with the modifications you have you would be better off going with the Jet ECM Upgrade which tunes the car for best performance. You will see about a 15 RWHP increase which is equal to 17.65 Engine HP. This unit sells for $499.95 including freight. From now until the end of May everything we sell is 5% off so this will cost you $474.95.
Robbie

http://www.members.aol.com/AtroRacingTeam/PRODUCTS/AtRoRacingsProductCatalog
 
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Hockeysnake

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Thanks Boys...I appreciate the input and advice. I am trying to figure out what the best mods are for my Vipe.
 

GR8_ASP

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OK Atro. Time to ask you to quit hijacking these threads with your cheap sales tactics. I understand your need to sell stuff but please do not take the Viper community for a bunch of idiots. You are now comparing the Vec2 to the JET piece of crap? The Vec2 may indeed be an add-on piggy back controller but it is capable of providing a programmable amount of fuel or spark adjustment based on the programmers desires. And the programs are available for a variety of equipment levels, or it can be tuned by the owner or a tuner. I am sure Sean could come here and explain this in more detail as he has put considerable time and energy into developing these tools specifically for a Viper.

Now could you please explain the system of operation of the JET plug in module, that magically works for any level of equipment, and is made for any Dodge and not even Viper specific. Peddle your garbage like this elsewhere.

Sorry for the off topic post. Just tired of seeing almost every single thread on the Gen III forum replied to with the magic Atro solution, of which most appear to be backyard solutions that are not worthy of being installed on a Viper.
 

Schulmann

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An experienced tuner can gain up to 40hp-50hp with the VEC2 on a NA engin. You need tools to do the tuning: either a dyno or a WBO with a logging device. VEC2 is able to log.
From the rpm curve you can estimate your HP.

It is a great tool. Personnaly I strongly recommend. It is really fun to use. You can setup different programs for you driving style. You can even drop your fuel mileage on hwy if you reprogram your fuel offsets.

On a NA engin you have to tune your AFR into the 13 ratio and you can also alter your ignition.
 

Racer Robbie

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The VEC2 is a great unit for modified cars. As was mentioned above, in a reply to this post, it was said that these is not that great an improvement on a stock car but that the VEC2 is the way to go on a modified car. The Jet is made for stock cars and works fine for a fraction of the price of a VEC2. All I was telling people is that it is available and what it sells for at any speed shop.
Do you see it for sale on my web site? I don't. Maybe you need to go back and read what I wrote. I never said it was better. If someone wanted to buy one I am able to save them money on the unit, that's all I was saying.
I said in my post, and I quote,
"Honeysnake, On a stock car with the modifications you have you would be better off going with the Jet ECM Upgrade which tunes the car for best performance. You will see about a 15 RWHP increase which is equal to 17.65 Engine HP. This unit sells for $499.95 including freight. From now until the end of May everything we sell is 5% off so this will cost you $474.95. The part number from JET is 65003. The Web page for the Jet unit is http://www.jetchip.com/. I have tried this unit on a stock viper and it works as advertised. As for the rest of your tirade against me I will not take the time to answer as you have never met me, do not know me or my background, or have ever been to my speed shop.
 

Joseph Dell

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Well, since we are expressing opinions, I've used the JET piggyback on non-vipers and LOST power. Even had one in a pickup truck that caused the truck to die while driving. I couldn't figure out why the truck was dead... it just wouldn't start after it died. Pulled the JET chip and it started right up.

Suggest passing on the JET for the viper application.

the VEC2 _can_ be a great improvement on a stock car... but you gotta tune it. If you just plug it in, fo-get about it helping much... cuz it won't. but if you tune it, you can benefit.

JD
 

Racer Robbie

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Like you said that was not on a viper, I have had zero problems with it. I also have one on my Jeep Wrangler TJ along with a hi flow exhaust and K & N filtercharger kit. I had the problems you mentioned above with the Jeep shutting off until I used a scan tool and found 2 trouble cosed. Once I fixed the trouble codes and reinstalled the Jet preogram I never had another problem. Every product one the market today has a problem once in a while, just look at the Random Cats that are cracking and breaking off at the mounting points. Does this mean that no one should ever buy them again. Did you call Jet and talk to them about the problem and swap it for a new one. At my supplier when there is a problem they give me a new one for free and send the old one back.
 

GR8_ASP

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"Do you see it for sale on my web site? I don't. Maybe you need to go back and read what I wrote. "

I did. It is still in your signature as something you market.

You did not answer my question as to what the JET thingy does. Spark, fuel, part throttle, WOT ...
 

Viper TT/10

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i would suggest getting a motec or aem instead of the vec. stand alones have better response than a piggyback. engine manegement is one area you should not try to do on a budget.
 

ghayes420

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I was told by a Viper expert, Ted at Valaya Racing in San Jose, who does all the Viper upgrades in the bay area and he said a VEC2 is a waste of money. It is best to go with a 96 ECM and save yourself the trouble/money.
 

Schulmann

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I was told by a Viper expert, Ted at Valaya Racing in San Jose, who does all the Viper upgrades in the bay area and he said a VEC2 is a waste of money. It is best to go with a 96 ECM and save yourself the trouble/money.

:D
I just don't get it.
Sometimes people make really stupid comments.
Be proud of you, likely your comments are in the top 10 most stupid.

Try to read a little about tuning before you advise somebody else.
 

Racer Robbie

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QUOTE: "I did. It is still in your signature as something you market."

What are you talking about. My signature shows what products and mods are in my personal 2003 SRT-10 Viper. Last time I looked at other peoples signature they also listed what is on their car.
 

sshorty

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AEM Plug & Play ECU is really the best thing you can get for your car for the money. Even though it's double the price of the VEC unit, it's a million times better. Once you have it dyno tuned by a professional shop, like Paddock Performance in Haverstraw NY for example, you can extract nearly double the horsepower or more than you would from the vec2, and you can tune it to how you want the car to run. With the few mods on your car HockeySnake, you don't "need" any computer upgrade, but if you "have" to have one, go with the AEM. Good Luck!
 

Schulmann

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I have to agree with sshorty, AEM is a very good add-on.

However the price only worth for forced induction Vipers.
It is good espetially for those who do a lot of self tuning.
It will not "double" the HP but will save a couple of $$$ and your Viper will be far more personalized. The stock PCM from the stone age is a real pain. The AEM replaces it.

VEC2 is still a perfect tool for most of the Vipers ...
 

kverges

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I am not sure the original question was fully answered. the VEC2 is a "piggyback" unit that alters the fuel injector and spark timing events as a function primarily of rpm and manifold pressure. It intercepts the factory signals and outputs new signals. It is most useful at wide open throttle to be sure things are set a max power. At part throttle, it lets the factory ECU do all the complicated and important stuff for driveability, such as closed loop fuel control, idle, throttle tip-in response, and so on. The Factory ECU stays in place and the car will pass emission tests, including those that require connecting to the car's diagnostic port.

VEC2 is user programmable, can data log (including extra channels if you add WBO2), and can grow with additional mods like headers, forced induction. It even controls water injection on S/C cars. Sean Roe's customer support is second to none - he has called me on Sunday evening to return a call with questions earlier that same day!

But everyone is right - you must tune with the VEC2, you will get nothing unless you want to work with it. Plus the VEC2 is so flexible you can set it to damage the car with too little fuel or too much timing. A careful tune is essential.

I don't like the more "universal" modules - no flexibility, data logging, etc. I'd have to say the VEC2 is worth more than twice a fixed and non-programmable module. But I don't know much about them and maybe they can do more. I doubt the effectiveness of anything that you don't fine-tune for your particular car.

The AEM is a stand-alone ECU that I understand will need TONS more tuning than a VEC2. The upside is that it can do amazing things like traction control, knock sensing, WBO2 feedback and the like. Downside is that every aspect of driveability, such as idle, acceleration maps, etc need to be programmed into the AEM. Maybe there are readily-available base maps and good customer support, but I would expect the AEM install to be a significant project.

I want to say an AEM is over $2.5K, and IMO is overkill for a basically modified car. Unless you have a heavily modified engine or forced induction, I would not mess with the AEM.

Finally, the AEM is not going to pass emissions, as it is not OBDII and can't be interrogated by a standard inspection shop.

I suggest headers first - I understand the basic car responds well to them and filters and cat-back won't get all that much from a tune, IMO. Headers and a VEC2, perhaps?
 

CANTDRIVE55

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I am in agreement with Keith, having just installed the VEC2 as well. It's flexibility is good enough to tune my ACR with new cam and heads AND most importantly for any street-driven Viper, maintains the OBDII functionality. Agree that headers would help as a first engine mod.
 

Larry94

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Before spending $1000 on a VEC 2, I would recommend spending $40-50 on 2 dyno pulls with A/F ratio plotted against RPM. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that stock and lightly modified cars benefit most with a VEC2 by adjusting the A/F ratio. Alteration of the spark advance is most helpfull for forced induction cars. DC tends to program their cars too rich to help protect the engines (and the warranties). There may be some gains in reducing the pulse width on these cars to obtain an A/F ratio between 12.5 and 13. If your dyno numbers show that your A/F ratio is already optimum, I doubt that a VEC2 will improve it much. My problem was the opposite. With my mods, I was running too lean. Adjusting the pulse width with a VEC2 resulted in a 25RWHP gain ( unfortunately I also needed bigger injectors)
 

Schulmann

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Kverges,

Everything you said is right except this phrase bothers me.

It is most useful at wide open throttle to be sure things are set a max power. At part throttle, it lets the factory ECU do all the complicated and important stuff for driveability, such as closed loop fuel control, idle, throttle tip-in response, and so on.

If you want your Viper to run really perfectly with a VEC2, you have to alter the fuel and ignition already before the WOT. On my unit I start HEAVILY altering the fuel at 10inhg vacuum. At 0inhg I have already +5ms fuel compared to the stock curve !

The fact that you have to alter the Fuel and ignition before WOT is very important. And I think most tuners don't relize this, because they don't have the appropriate equipement. On my Viper I have two WBO. They provide a very precious feedback on what is going on in the engin. I was really stunned by seeing a lot of difference between Dyno and Track tuned programs. On Dyno people only focus on WOT and top HP numbers but they forget the transition between vacuum and boost. This region is very important on track and street.

My Viper has "only" 600hp (with a 6.5lb pulley !) and it is already difficult to hold it on to the pavement. On the street I rearly have the opportunity to hit full throttle. So I spent a lot of time to fine tune the 10ingh and 5psi area where my throttle is only opened 40%. At this area the PCM is still active .... but the VEC2 has all the features to kickout the PCM.

Before spending $1000 on a VEC 2, I would recommend spending $40-50 on 2 dyno pulls with A/F ratio plotted against RPM. My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that stock and lightly modified cars benefit most with a VEC2 by adjusting the A/F ratio. Alteration of the spark advance is most helpfull for forced induction cars. DC tends to program their cars too rich to help protect the engines (and the warranties). There may be some gains in reducing the pulse width on these cars to obtain an A/F ratio between 12.5 and 13. If your dyno numbers show that your A/F ratio is already optimum, I doubt that a VEC2 will improve it much. My problem was the opposite. With my mods, I was running too lean. Adjusting the pulse width with a VEC2 resulted in a 25RWHP gain ( unfortunately I also needed bigger injectors)

40$ for 1HP isn't so expensive ! Most people spend 2000$ on headers and they only gain 20hp. That's 100$/hp. On Gen2 no supercharged Vipers you can gain up to 30-50hp.

VEC2, Filters, rockers, thermostate, PCV are the most cost effective mods.
 

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I have contacted Dan, talked to him for over an hour, and he has sent me a brand new computer with a remapped program per my specs. I will be putting it in my car in the next week or two and will report on my findings. As Dan can customize the unit per whatever modifications have been done to your car I believe his computer will be the way to go. Jet can not do this. Also if you have any viper newer than 2003 you will need to buy a new computer and keep your old one for emissions purposes, even though Dan believes his modifications will pass emissions inspection,2004 and newer computers have the capability to tell if they have been remapped by anyone except DC. I hope to offer new computers at discounted prices in the near future so that you can send Dan a new one and save yourself some money. I will also be offering to have a new computer remapped by Dan for people who are not comfortable with trying to explaining how they want the re mapping done.
 

Racer Robbie

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Yes I am, Dan takes new OEM factory stock units and re maps them to the specifications that we provide depending on whatever modifications have been done to your car.
 

kverges

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I did not mean to imply that you do not tune for transitions, but WOT is still the most important. I do add some fuel at O vacuum, but it is a progression dictated primarily by the maximum amount of fuel added at WOT. At WOT, I try to run about 11.5:1 A/F, at vacuum I am happy with 14.7:1. The transition needs to be smooth and safe.

Timing cannot be underestimated - it is critical to power and also can destroy your engine if you get too agressive. Stock cars love extra timing around 4000 rpm. I probably shoudl have full-time WBO2 on both banks that I log via the VEC2 - I am just to lazy and busy with other projects like a turbo Elise right now to mess with it, and the car runs well as is.

Finally, talk to Sean, he is a wealth of info and very accessible. Even after the sale!
 

Racer Robbie

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I just got off the phone with Tom, a customer of mine, who has a VEC 2 and he talked to Dan who told him that the reflashed ECM works great with the VEC 2 unit.
 

Midwest Muscle

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I wouldn't put a JET product on my Viper if you paid me the $500. If you are interested in finding out the level of leanness it takes to ruin a piston, JET is your best bet.

Mike M
 
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