DavidSB
Enthusiast
Check out the great Letter to the Editor from VCA member John Fuchs on page 18 of the January, 2008 issue of Car & Driver magazine and their response. Kudos John!
Car & ****** Magazine - Jan '08 Letter to Editor
- Thread starter DavidSB
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Tusc
Enthusiast
LOL - I remember when I used to subscribe to that magazine back before I had a license. Once you're inside the gearhead world, there's not much to be gained from reading about the latest Prius in sporty terms. I got real tired of all the reviews being the same sugar coating and canceled all my subscriptions.
Online sources like Windingroad or Autoblog may offer similar sentiments, but a lot more pertinent info just a click away.
Online sources like Windingroad or Autoblog may offer similar sentiments, but a lot more pertinent info just a click away.
DavidSB
Enthusiast
Saw it in the news stand. Can anyone scan and post?
viperDoug
Enthusiast
LOL - I remember when I used to subscribe to that magazine back before I had a license. Once you're inside the gearhead world, there's not much to be gained from reading about the latest Prius in sporty terms. I got real tired of all the reviews being the same sugar coating and canceled all my subscriptions.
Online sources like Windingroad or Autoblog may offer similar sentiments, but a lot more pertinent info just a click away.
Same here. I cancelled my subscription last year since I got tired of reading about which 4 cylinder sedan was the best bang for the buck. The only interesting part of the magazine every month wer the letters to the editor where people would complain. Everytime they do an article on high performance cars, you can tell from the pictures which one they are going to say wins. It always was the most expensive car unless it was between the viper and the Z06.
Tusc
Enthusiast
Which makes sense. Unless a manufacturer turns out a real dud, they bow to the advertising money and the masses. There are a lot more Corvette owners out there than Viper owners. I remain amazed (amused?) that the Corvettes continue to get such stellar reviews when compared directly to the Viper. I think they fit the same niche, but appeal to somewhat different markets. Both are good cars, but I'm never going back to Corvettes unless I get a hankering for a restoration project.
I knew I didn't fit in with the Corvette crowd when I went to the CT Corvette Club's annual car show at Moroso. I saw 50 yellow convertible automatics, only 1 Callaway project car, and the first guy to get talking to me about his new C5 at the time was going on and on about the C5 symbol he had painted onto his steering wheel, the hood emblem he installed on the waterfall, and how tough it was to clean the chrome insert plate between his exhaust pipes.
And there I sat with my 3-month-old black/black 6-spd with ram air, straight pipes and Nittos kickin' it old school.
I knew I didn't fit in with the Corvette crowd when I went to the CT Corvette Club's annual car show at Moroso. I saw 50 yellow convertible automatics, only 1 Callaway project car, and the first guy to get talking to me about his new C5 at the time was going on and on about the C5 symbol he had painted onto his steering wheel, the hood emblem he installed on the waterfall, and how tough it was to clean the chrome insert plate between his exhaust pipes.
And there I sat with my 3-month-old black/black 6-spd with ram air, straight pipes and Nittos kickin' it old school.Ratical2
Enthusiast
It reads:
After reading the Viper-and Vette comparo, I suggest you change the name of your magazine to Car and Weenies. There are obviously no real drivers on your staff. The Viper outperformed the Corvette in every single meaningful objective category-on the drag strip, on the road course, on the skidpad, and from 0 to 150 mph, except that the Viper's stopping distance was one foot longer than the Corvette's. According to your test, the Viper handles better, is easier to drive on a road course, and has quick steering and a solid brake pedal, while the Corvette has "flimsy seats and a vague shift lever." However, the Corvette is given first place because it's easier to get into and out of, it has cup holders and more luggage space, and it's a better daily driver.
The Viper is not a daily driver, and it never pretends to be one. It's a real high-performance sports car that is at home on the track as well as the street. But you folks apparently think having bad seats, a vague shifter, and "tank slapping oversteer" in the Corvette can be overlooked, as long as there's a place for your Starbucks and your golf clubs.
John R. Fuchs
Pacific Palisades, California
Car and weenies response:
Fuch, from his palace in the Palisades, does not mention the 14 grand separating the cars, perhaps because in his neck of the woods that's chump change-Ed.
After reading the Viper-and Vette comparo, I suggest you change the name of your magazine to Car and Weenies. There are obviously no real drivers on your staff. The Viper outperformed the Corvette in every single meaningful objective category-on the drag strip, on the road course, on the skidpad, and from 0 to 150 mph, except that the Viper's stopping distance was one foot longer than the Corvette's. According to your test, the Viper handles better, is easier to drive on a road course, and has quick steering and a solid brake pedal, while the Corvette has "flimsy seats and a vague shift lever." However, the Corvette is given first place because it's easier to get into and out of, it has cup holders and more luggage space, and it's a better daily driver.
The Viper is not a daily driver, and it never pretends to be one. It's a real high-performance sports car that is at home on the track as well as the street. But you folks apparently think having bad seats, a vague shifter, and "tank slapping oversteer" in the Corvette can be overlooked, as long as there's a place for your Starbucks and your golf clubs.
John R. Fuchs
Pacific Palisades, California
Car and weenies response:
Fuch, from his palace in the Palisades, does not mention the 14 grand separating the cars, perhaps because in his neck of the woods that's chump change-Ed.
Got_Vnum
Viper Owner
LOVE that letter to the head ******! Go John!
Thanks for taking the time to type it all out Ratical2!
And BTW C&W regarding the $14K - its called "exclusivity" why wasn't that a category?
Thanks for taking the time to type it all out Ratical2!
And BTW C&W regarding the $14K - its called "exclusivity" why wasn't that a category?
Last edited:
InjectTheVenom
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Here is what it actually reads:
Blablabla, we are all airheads and use the price excuse to try and hide behind our own stupidity which is sponsored by GM so that's why we refuse to face reality.
Tusc
Enthusiast
His response alone just confirmed for me that I will NEVER buy that rag again. Since when is a Viper a rich man's car? Any sports car is luxury vehicle... not necessary. Neither the Vette, nor the Viper is that expensive when you consider the ARMIES of Range Rovers, Cayennes and AMG Benzs out there that run half again to twice the cost of these rides.
An optioned C6 Convertible costs $72,350.00
An optioned C6 Z06 runs $82,040.00
Base SRT10 is just a pittance more at $83,345.00
What schlep that can afford a Corvette in that price range CAN'T afford a Viper?
I guess that $14,000 he mentioned needs to be saved for tows and repair work that GM won't honor under their warranty program.(Edit: I would LOVE to see them review the repair records for both cars and the quality of service provided. Corvette sales would disappear if the stats were shoved in people's noses) Could have bought the Viper for just $10,995 difference and been better off. Way to pay attention. Great editor there.
He's just...
This is precisely why I don't support the magazine industry anymore. (Except for ******* and The Economist). Don't get me started on the local news rags where I live and their extreme socio-political bias...
An optioned C6 Convertible costs $72,350.00
An optioned C6 Z06 runs $82,040.00
Base SRT10 is just a pittance more at $83,345.00
What schlep that can afford a Corvette in that price range CAN'T afford a Viper?
I guess that $14,000 he mentioned needs to be saved for tows and repair work that GM won't honor under their warranty program.(Edit: I would LOVE to see them review the repair records for both cars and the quality of service provided. Corvette sales would disappear if the stats were shoved in people's noses) Could have bought the Viper for just $10,995 difference and been better off. Way to pay attention. Great editor there.
He's just...
This is precisely why I don't support the magazine industry anymore. (Except for ******* and The Economist). Don't get me started on the local news rags where I live and their extreme socio-political bias...
Jay H
Enthusiast
I just get them for the pictures.....thats it....
danfromohio
Enthusiast
LOL! To wife: "I swear, honey, I just get the magazine for the pictures! Not the articles!"
Viper4Christ
Enthusiast
All those main stream car mags are nothing but empty shells. I stopped paying attention to anything any of them had to say a long time ago... especially about the Viper. Seems like "top gear" gives better reviews and we all know how much they "love" American cars over there.
CitySnake
Enthusiast
What a disappointing editorial response. What amounts to a personal attack on the letter's author because he is successful (based solely on his home town).
He'd have gained more respect with a "I know you are but what am I?" response.
He'd have gained more respect with a "I know you are but what am I?" response.
sween
Enthusiast
Haha great letter to car and driver
GuitarSteve
Enthusiast
Thanks for posting that letter. I haven't received the January 2008 issue, and now I DEFINITELY WON'T! That response to Mr Fuchs is completely childish...There are tons of C/W weiners err......readers out there that will most likely cancel their subscription after reading that, such as myself.
Having interacted with my local Viper Club, (I am not a member), local Datsun/Nissan "Z" club and my local Corvette Club, I would like to say that the Viper guys are the most intelligent, insightful, polite and diverse out of the three clubs listed here. Allow me to explain:
A few years ago I attended an outdoor car show, with many car clubs, including Viper, Vette, Mustang, and Z (Nissan/Datsun). I would talk with some of the owners, only for them to tell me how their 'Stang would outrun the Vette and the Vette guys telling me how their car is "so superior and more advanced than the redneck Viper." I go to the Z guys and they were quite nice, talking about their cars, as each owner had a different story behind their car and why they modified it in whatever fashion they did. They also gave kudos to the Viper club and as one guy said, "The Viper is the best way to describe North America; beautiful, simple, and LOUD!!!"
In closing to this post, I would like to say to all Viper owners in here: Thank you for being a responsible group of individuals and a diverse one at that. You all can appreciate and/or respect any car's existence as well as personal taste and preference. I hope to join the ranks of a Viper owner one day too, and to keep up the good reputation the VCA has.
-Steve
Having interacted with my local Viper Club, (I am not a member), local Datsun/Nissan "Z" club and my local Corvette Club, I would like to say that the Viper guys are the most intelligent, insightful, polite and diverse out of the three clubs listed here. Allow me to explain:
A few years ago I attended an outdoor car show, with many car clubs, including Viper, Vette, Mustang, and Z (Nissan/Datsun). I would talk with some of the owners, only for them to tell me how their 'Stang would outrun the Vette and the Vette guys telling me how their car is "so superior and more advanced than the redneck Viper." I go to the Z guys and they were quite nice, talking about their cars, as each owner had a different story behind their car and why they modified it in whatever fashion they did. They also gave kudos to the Viper club and as one guy said, "The Viper is the best way to describe North America; beautiful, simple, and LOUD!!!"
In closing to this post, I would like to say to all Viper owners in here: Thank you for being a responsible group of individuals and a diverse one at that. You all can appreciate and/or respect any car's existence as well as personal taste and preference. I hope to join the ranks of a Viper owner one day too, and to keep up the good reputation the VCA has.
-Steve
I read an article from one of the 'biggies' online and after they tested the 06 vette against tbe 08 Viper they said that the Viper was a tiny bit faster, handled a tiny bit better, had a hgiher top speed and stopped a tiny bit shorter than the older vette. I figured that they had to put the bad driver in the Viper to be so close to the vette, but it still outperformed the vette in every test. Their conclusion was that the vette won????? I guess they left out all the cup holder testing until they made their conclusions.
Does that mean that they'd pick the vette over a Veyron, Ferrari and good Porsche as well? I chose to buy my Viper over every car built, but it doesn't mean that if someone offered me a choice between a Veyron and a Viper I'd ask for the $100,000 Viper. I'd take the Veyron, sell it and pay the couple hundred dollars of taxes the government would charge me then buy a couple 1,000hp Vipers.
If I had to chose which car to drive cross country between a Viper or a vette, I'd take the Viper. I think the magazine testers would also chose to take the Viper.
When I watched the 06 Fifth Gear test between the Viper and the vette, the loser driving the vette didn't smile while the winner driving the Viper couldn't stop smiling and laughing. I think that is truer information that the BS at the end when they said the vette won.
Because it's the UK (?) they said the vette was worth 50,000 pounds and the Viper wsa worth 150,000 pounds = what's with that?
Ted
Does that mean that they'd pick the vette over a Veyron, Ferrari and good Porsche as well? I chose to buy my Viper over every car built, but it doesn't mean that if someone offered me a choice between a Veyron and a Viper I'd ask for the $100,000 Viper. I'd take the Veyron, sell it and pay the couple hundred dollars of taxes the government would charge me then buy a couple 1,000hp Vipers.
If I had to chose which car to drive cross country between a Viper or a vette, I'd take the Viper. I think the magazine testers would also chose to take the Viper.
When I watched the 06 Fifth Gear test between the Viper and the vette, the loser driving the vette didn't smile while the winner driving the Viper couldn't stop smiling and laughing. I think that is truer information that the BS at the end when they said the vette won.
Because it's the UK (?) they said the vette was worth 50,000 pounds and the Viper wsa worth 150,000 pounds = what's with that?
Ted
