Cat monitoring incomplete

banton

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Hi everyone,

Was wondering if anyone knows approximately how many miles it takes for the PCM to acknowledge the cats are functioning properly and switch from incomplete to ready? I need to get my GTS through emissions and that is the only parameter I still need since clearing/resolving a couple codes that made me fail previously.

Thanks in advance.
 
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banton

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While I would never second guess your intelligence, at least on this forum :), I hope the figure is higher than 50 as I have probably gone about 60 miles, but my scanner still shows "Inc" :dunno:
 

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Depends on how you drive it. If you take a long drive at 60+ mph, it can take alot longer. I've had the best results with county-road drives, stopping, starting, going 50 mph max (I know, I know....how boring).

Do that for 50-60 miles and you should be OK. It could be taking you longer if you've been driving at highway speed.
 
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banton

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What year is the car? Do you have OBD II? Are your down stream 02 sensors deleted?

It is a 97, so OBDII. This is a sad part, but I honestly don't know if I have the downstream 02's intact anymore. I suppose I better find out if during my multiple configurations with my exhaust that I even have them. Can they I visually see the wires or something to confirm or do I need to remove my sills (pain)?
 
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banton

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Depends on how you drive it. If you take a long drive at 60+ mph, it can take alot longer. I've had the best results with county-road drives, stopping, starting, going 50 mph max (I know, I know....how boring).

Do that for 50-60 miles and you should be OK. It could be taking you longer if you've been driving at highway speed.

Thanks, that is the exactly the type of driving that has been done, 35-55mph with regular start/stops every couple miles.
 
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banton

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Grrrrrrrrrr

Well, with some driving over the weekend, I have now driven over 100 miles and still showing "INC" for the cat monitoring:dunno: I do have the downstream 02's in place and my scanner confirms they are operational. I am kind of at a loss now.

Has anyone had issues with the cat monitoring going to "ready" with hi-flo cats installed? I am probably pulling at straws, but not sure what my next move should be?
 

DrumrBoy

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Are the cats shot? Have you run any race gas in it (sometimes it has lead and the pump isn't labeled that way) or anything else that would cause them to not come up to catalyzin' temp?
 
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banton

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Are the cats shot? Have you run any race gas in it (sometimes it has lead and the pump isn't labeled that way) or anything else that would cause them to not come up to catalyzin' temp?

Thanks for the reply. The RT cats were installed new about 150 miles ago (was catless prior) from Jon B. I only run 93 unleaded premium gas, so nothing that should affect the cats or clog the O2's that I can think of. I am stumped.
 

bluesrt

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keep driveng the car around 55 mph on hwy steady without stopping, it will go. takes around 35 to 70 miles
 
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banton

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keep driveng the car around 55 mph on hwy steady without stopping, it will go. takes around 35 to 70 miles

I will give that a try then. I have been mainly driving on roads that where the speed ranges from 35-50, but have stop lights regularly. Hopefully some steady-state driving at highway speeds will do the trick, thanks.
 

JoelW

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I will give that a try then. I have been mainly driving on roads that where the speed ranges from 35-50, but have stop lights regularly. Hopefully some steady-state driving at highway speeds will do the trick, thanks.

With some computers it is start cool down cycles not just miles driven. If you have a scanner, plug it up and watch the operation data and look to see if the O2 sensors are doing their job - you can scan them as you drive. I have found that it may take 150 miles over several drives to get drive cycle codes reset. Each manufacturer has their own drive cycle set up. Volvo's drive cycle will make you crazy. All are not that bad. Maybe one of the Viper techs can tell you what Chrysler's drive cycle is but steady driving won't usually do it in my experience.
 

bluesrt

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steady driveing is what it takes for a cat, stop and go wont cut it
 

GTS Bruce

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The rear sensors are not confiriming function and warm up. In a NON-CAT car.You must plug in the original cat sensors and let them dangle in the air to: show WARMUP! After that warmup has been established a plug sym will suffice for function. GTS Bruce
 

345s-bspinnin

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I had the exact same issue on my GenIII when it was stock. I drove aimlessly for hundreds of miles, but to no avail. Some respected members/vendors on this board were certain that I needed to replace all O2 sensors, even though telemetry showed they were fine. Others suggested that I needed replacement of the PCM.

The solution:
1) Be certain your battery is 100%. After extensive driving, my monitors were all ready. However, upon shutting down and restarting, all readiness would black out and start over. Turns out I had a bad cell in the battery. Apparently the voltage would dip low enough that it would clear the monitors.

2) To get a real fresh start on the PCM, have your local friendly dodge dealer and/or viper tech clear all DTC and learning parameters. If you have DTC, then those need to be addressed. Otherwise, proceed to driving through the cycles.

3) Don't aimless drive for a gazzillion miles. Drive the OBDII cycle. Some folks have suggested distance and driving styles. While most are somewhat true, the OBDII cycle is actually baselined with minor difference between manufacturers. The generic OBDII Drive Cycle image is included below. I used to have a copy of the Chrysler specific drive cycle, but can't find it.

After resetting the learning parameters and driving through the cycles, all my I/M readiness codes were completed in less than 20 miles (and stayed on). I will keep on looking and see if I can find you Chrysler version. I do recall reading that throttle must be less than 40% throttle and rpm between some RPM range during steady state driving. I dont' recall the range, but I know that I never went into 6th. I also recall that the Chrysler specific version asked that you idle for something like 5 minutes after then end of the cycle.

My $0.02

Good luck.

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FLATOUT

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Winner :)

Had the same thing happen to mine and then everything just started working. I'll keep an eye on the battery.
 
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banton

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Thanks for the replies!

I had a couple codes previously, had the car retuned, erased, and have now cleared. All my parameters are good except according to my scanner, except the cat monitoring. It does seem that (and hope) that the steady state driving at hwy speeds is the missing component and confirmed by the OBDII diagram. As soon as I get a decent day, I will give that a try and hopefully finally get this resolved. I will update the thread in a couple day, weather permitting.
 

Jack B

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Grrrrrrrrrr

Well, with some driving over the weekend, I have now driven over 100 miles and still showing "INC" for the cat monitoring:dunno: I do have the downstream 02's in place and my scanner confirms they are operational. I am kind of at a loss now.

Has anyone had issues with the cat monitoring going to "ready" with hi-flo cats installed? I am probably pulling at straws, but not sure what my next move should be?

The 97 pcm should not see any diff in the new cats. I don't have any cats and there are no hard or soft codes. The 99 and new pcm have the issue. Are you sure you have a 97 PCM?
 
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banton

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Hi Jack,

I am not throwing any codes for the cats, but for emissions purposes, the cats have to read as "ready" when they scan the PCM. My O2's are heating and working properly and I have no DTC's being thrown or pending, but just need my PCM to switch from "INC" to "Ready" for the cat monitoring diagnostic.
 
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banton

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Well, went out this morning and drove an additional 62 miles, including ~42 miles on the tollway. About half of the hwy miles I held steady at around 60 mph in 4th and the other half at ~70 mph in 5th. Result.......Cat Monitoring still INCOMPETE!

Any thoughts on what to check or where to go from here? There must be something up here?!
 

GTS Dean

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It has been reported that running the A/C during the drive cycle helps the PCM learn a long-term map. Not sure if it has any effect on OBD-II internal checks.
 

Jack B

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Hi Jack,

I am not throwing any codes for the cats, but for emissions purposes, the cats have to read as "ready" when they scan the PCM. My O2's are heating and working properly and I have no DTC's being thrown or pending, but just need my PCM to switch from "INC" to "Ready" for the cat monitoring diagnostic.

I do not get tested, is this common for most states to view the cat info via the obd port?

I can see why why the cat algorithm isn't working. You are getting less of a voltage differential across the front/rear O2's. I had to use an O2 extender to get my turbo solstice to stop setting a code after i changed the cat. Have you tried an extender?
 

bluesrt

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try to keep it around 55 mph. it will go keep the speed steady without stopping- 70 is to fast. have all functions turned off
 
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banton

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I do not get tested, is this common for most states to view the cat info via the obd port?

I can see why why the cat algorithm isn't working. You are getting less of a voltage differential across the front/rear O2's. I had to use an O2 extender to get my turbo solstice to stop setting a code after i changed the cat. Have you tried an extender?

Yes, many states just do a OBDII diagnostic to test that all required emission systems are working properly and no codes are present (as opposed to sniffer testing). If you have a CEL, even is not specifically emissions related, you also fail.

What do the extenders do exactly? When I am scanning my live data, the voltage seems to be quite a bit different at idle, between my front and back O2's. Then if I give it some gas, the rear O2's voltage increases.
 
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banton

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try to keep it around 55 mph. it will go keep the speed steady without stopping- 70 is to fast. have all functions turned off

Ok, I am willing to try holding right at 55mph and see if that works. This will be very humbling as I noticed everyone looking at me strange as it was being in a Viper and only cruising at about 60 on a Chicago interstate.
 

Jack B

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Yes, many states just do a OBDII diagnostic to test that all required emission systems are working properly and no codes are present (as opposed to sniffer testing). If you have a CEL, even is not specifically emissions related, you also fail.

What do the extenders do exactly? When I am scanning my live data, the voltage seems to be quite a bit different at idle, between my front and back O2's. Then if I give it some gas, the rear O2's voltage increases.

The extenders should increase the differential O2 voltages between 1-1 and 1-2. therefore, fooling the pcm into believing the factory cat is installed. I could be wrong, but, the pcm might not care about the instantaneous O2 voltages, it might find the differentials provide a better analysis of the cat condition.
 
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banton

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Hate to bring my old thread back to life, but I have now driven hundreds of miles in all type of conditions and my ODBII scanner still reflects that the cat monitoring is incomplete :( To top it off, I now have a ticket for expired registration as I can't renew my license plates and registration until I can pass this last element.

My question is can anyone recommend someone in the Chicago area I can take the car to who can help diagnose and finally resolve this issue? If I can't get this worked out, I fear I will have no choice but to sell the car to some who live where emissions testing isn't required and that is the last thing I want to do.

Thanks.
 
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