FrankBarba
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I highly doubt they were racing....Wasn't this an HPDE event & not a sanctioned racing event....?????
Comp Coupe Beats 08 ACR Heads Up @ Pocono
- Thread starter Dimitrios
- Start date
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
I wondered how an '08 ACR would fair against a CC. Not a WCGT CC but a stock CC. I'm calling out SCCA racer JoeB in his stock CC (on Hoosier slicks) vs. me in an ACR (on Pilot Cups) at Willow Springs, a track where you need big cajones 
bluestreak
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SWEET!!!!
Keep us posted.
Keep us posted.
Hey this is Ralph, the guy in the ACR. First of all the guy who started this post should be very careful with those news paper style headlines. That is a big statements with so little facts known to the readers.
For starters there is a reason the CompCoupe exists and that is to be the ultimate track Viper if not the ultimate turn key racer! That said the lap times between the two vipers based on different runs through out the day was roughly 2 seconds. On a 2.5 mile course of this type that is to be expected. In most of our testing the ACR is very close to the Compcoupe (non world Challenge) but it very much depends on the track. The ACR with the giant rear wing has more aero drag than the comp coupe which benifits from being a few inches shorter and has a more aero "friendly" body, not to mention light weight composite panels, no windows, no AC etc. Bob's car having the older smaller rear wing actually has the high speed straightline advantage. The banked corners at POCONO raceway mask the down force dis advantage. Even though my car had more power it was negated by all the air I am pushing around. On tighter tracks biased towards cornering the ACR has been able to get very close to the Comp coupe.
What the picture doesn't tell you is that we staged the beginning of the "race" for fun. Steve went ahead so I could learn his lines. He is an amazing driver and helped me learn this "new to me" track throughout the day. We had fun drafting each other. On one lap I got a good tow from him and actually had to lift not to run into the back of Bob's car. The Pocono track is easily one of the fastest tracks I have ever been to. We repeatedly hit 165 on the back strait...keep in mind this is right before a 130mph left that leads into a 30 mph acute left hander. The brakes on the Comp coupe and the ACR (same as the 03 and up)are simply out of this world, we did this lap after lap with zero fade. I did have comp coupe pads installed for a little more bite! Being only the second event with my car....I spent the Friday prior with the Illinios club at Gingerman 800miles away! Lets just say I was getting to know her. There is a lot of speed left in the ACR. I hadn't lowered the car all the way yet as I was street driving it all week to get the engine borken in. I also did not do a full race alignment, which is mostly camber settings. I could feel some understeer at the limit. My tire wear confirmed my lack of camber...
That aside I feel lucky to have been shown the ropes by a great driver like Steve. The best part was watching Steve dive into turn one a 150 MPH left hander at the end of the front straight. Call it small cojones or not having a cage in my car or my HANS (forgot it at home) I would breath the brakes a little sooner and go in at 146 MPH...we would later find out. Some one had a speed gun on us. Steve also would get on the gas a couple of car lengths sooner than me going on to the front straight....I chalk that up to his fantastic track knowledge and skill. On my last session of the day I found another few tenths doing the same thing.
What was clear is that the cars were very evenly match on the twisty bits, my extra power would allow me to close up noticeably powering out of corners. We were held up equally behind slower cars as he would pass one guy than I would have to deal with the same one...all the other cars were slower even some open cockpit protoype Ferraris!!!!! What I would have done for a closed track with no other cars and with Steve and I playing tag. It is rare that you feel so comfortable driving so fast so close to another driver. Steve has impeccable lines and has great track awareness so I can totally trust him.
All in all I had a blast...what was clear that day is that the NY and Jersey club guys like many of the Viper faithful are awesome, they treated me beyond great. Scotty "Wrench" kept my wheels torqued up and my tire pressures good. Nothing but love and respect for everyone. They talked me into coming to see how they roll. Trust me this wasn't easy to justify coming 600 miles from home for one day only to turn around and go back within 24 hours! But I loved every minute of it. Special thanks to Bob, Bobby, Tom and Steve!
In no way do I want this to become what you all measure the new ACR from. I am just a car guy having fun out there with some great people. Even though I have been racing and testing for over 12 years I am still an amature and a car designer not a pro! So lets leave the legend making to guys like Tommy Archer and Steve Katz!
Oh yeah one more thing...my co driver did the Challenger in not me!!! PEACE!
For starters there is a reason the CompCoupe exists and that is to be the ultimate track Viper if not the ultimate turn key racer! That said the lap times between the two vipers based on different runs through out the day was roughly 2 seconds. On a 2.5 mile course of this type that is to be expected. In most of our testing the ACR is very close to the Compcoupe (non world Challenge) but it very much depends on the track. The ACR with the giant rear wing has more aero drag than the comp coupe which benifits from being a few inches shorter and has a more aero "friendly" body, not to mention light weight composite panels, no windows, no AC etc. Bob's car having the older smaller rear wing actually has the high speed straightline advantage. The banked corners at POCONO raceway mask the down force dis advantage. Even though my car had more power it was negated by all the air I am pushing around. On tighter tracks biased towards cornering the ACR has been able to get very close to the Comp coupe.
What the picture doesn't tell you is that we staged the beginning of the "race" for fun. Steve went ahead so I could learn his lines. He is an amazing driver and helped me learn this "new to me" track throughout the day. We had fun drafting each other. On one lap I got a good tow from him and actually had to lift not to run into the back of Bob's car. The Pocono track is easily one of the fastest tracks I have ever been to. We repeatedly hit 165 on the back strait...keep in mind this is right before a 130mph left that leads into a 30 mph acute left hander. The brakes on the Comp coupe and the ACR (same as the 03 and up)are simply out of this world, we did this lap after lap with zero fade. I did have comp coupe pads installed for a little more bite! Being only the second event with my car....I spent the Friday prior with the Illinios club at Gingerman 800miles away! Lets just say I was getting to know her. There is a lot of speed left in the ACR. I hadn't lowered the car all the way yet as I was street driving it all week to get the engine borken in. I also did not do a full race alignment, which is mostly camber settings. I could feel some understeer at the limit. My tire wear confirmed my lack of camber...
That aside I feel lucky to have been shown the ropes by a great driver like Steve. The best part was watching Steve dive into turn one a 150 MPH left hander at the end of the front straight. Call it small cojones or not having a cage in my car or my HANS (forgot it at home) I would breath the brakes a little sooner and go in at 146 MPH...we would later find out. Some one had a speed gun on us. Steve also would get on the gas a couple of car lengths sooner than me going on to the front straight....I chalk that up to his fantastic track knowledge and skill. On my last session of the day I found another few tenths doing the same thing.
What was clear is that the cars were very evenly match on the twisty bits, my extra power would allow me to close up noticeably powering out of corners. We were held up equally behind slower cars as he would pass one guy than I would have to deal with the same one...all the other cars were slower even some open cockpit protoype Ferraris!!!!! What I would have done for a closed track with no other cars and with Steve and I playing tag. It is rare that you feel so comfortable driving so fast so close to another driver. Steve has impeccable lines and has great track awareness so I can totally trust him.
All in all I had a blast...what was clear that day is that the NY and Jersey club guys like many of the Viper faithful are awesome, they treated me beyond great. Scotty "Wrench" kept my wheels torqued up and my tire pressures good. Nothing but love and respect for everyone. They talked me into coming to see how they roll. Trust me this wasn't easy to justify coming 600 miles from home for one day only to turn around and go back within 24 hours! But I loved every minute of it. Special thanks to Bob, Bobby, Tom and Steve!
In no way do I want this to become what you all measure the new ACR from. I am just a car guy having fun out there with some great people. Even though I have been racing and testing for over 12 years I am still an amature and a car designer not a pro! So lets leave the legend making to guys like Tommy Archer and Steve Katz!
Oh yeah one more thing...my co driver did the Challenger in not me!!!
PEACE!HI-NOS-Viper
Enthusiast
Wow sounds like an awesome event. Wish I could of seen it. Two very bad a$$ cars for sure. I would take either one no doubt. Wow for the otherwise stock ACR to be neck to neck with the not street legal track only CC, that is just amazing. Way to go viper. Cmon ZR1 you are getting called out. Lets play 
Those fortunate enough to have an ACR that is
Those fortunate enough to have an ACR that is Dimitrios
Enthusiast
i love bringing the first posts outta people! So good to hear from you Voodoo. you designed one sick car and we all know that! thank you. if you ever need a publicist let me know. but seriously bottom line is we have loads of fun with our vipers whether its a ACR, CCoupe or just a regular stock viper. theyre all great cars and all have their purpose.
Warfang
Enthusiast
Oh yeah one more thing...my co driver did the Challenger in not me!!!
HA! Just giving you a hard time... just glad you guys didn't get hurt. That Challenger looked awesome (gonna trade my GTO in for one), and love the schtick with the 'fro.
Thanks for all your hard work!
doctorbob
Enthusiast
Damn, great first post Ralph and great looking ACR. I am sure we all appreciate who you are and what you have done for the Viper Nation. Bob
P.S. I am planning to drop in to CAAP in mid June as soon as I hear from Beth potential dates and maybe I can get you guys from the Skunk Works to sign something on my ACR.
P.S. I am planning to drop in to CAAP in mid June as soon as I hear from Beth potential dates and maybe I can get you guys from the Skunk Works to sign something on my ACR.
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XXX BLK
Enthusiast
Do I hear RE-MATCH maybe at Virgina International Raceway or even better VOI in Detroit if Steve can get the Comp Coupe again. This would be another reason to come to VOI if you have'nt signed up yet. Just my opinion and my hat off to two great drivers ACR STEVE and RALPH ( THE MASTER DESIGNER) GILLES. Thanks guys, Adrian 
bluestreak
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I was going to mention the aero advantage of the CC, is lower and has much less air passing under the car with the body work.
Aside from that only 2.5 seconds behind with a first time in car, new to track, vs a pretty darn good driver in a definitely fast non street legal race car.
IS PRETTY FREAKING GOOD.
Aside from that only 2.5 seconds behind with a first time in car, new to track, vs a pretty darn good driver in a definitely fast non street legal race car.
IS PRETTY FREAKING GOOD.
Asianguywithacamera
Enthusiast
A few more pictures
And several from Sunday
I should have the show pictures uploaded by tonight. The track pictures will take a few days (400+ images), plus I have a ******* bikini contest to shoot Thursday. I have 90-110 shots of the Vipers on the track from Monday, so pretty much every Viper owner will have several shots of their car.
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
And several from Sunday
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images
I should have the show pictures uploaded by tonight. The track pictures will take a few days (400+ images), plus I have a ******* bikini contest to shoot Thursday. I have 90-110 shots of the Vipers on the track from Monday, so pretty much every Viper owner will have several shots of their car.
so i heard that there was some trash talking between the 08 ACR and comp coupe at the dinner before race day at pocono. apparently the comp coupe was getting bashed. Dodge had a 08 ACR #1 car with the designer along with it and it happened to be that Bob' Carrols Comp coupe was there as well. so they set up a race heads up one on one with steve katz and ralph. well guess who won?
thats right our very own steve katz in the comp coupe. keep in mind he only drove that car once before 2 years ago with no seat time really and the ACR has 90 more horses! way to go steve!!! if anyone has pics please post!!!
Pix Courtesy of Dave Moore:
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Way to go D, stirring the ***.
Ralph and Steve, thanks for putting it back into perspective.
Dave
Rich Wesorick
Enthusiast
Hey Ralph - from one Viper nut to another, thanks for posting and keep up all of the great work!
Rich
VRL #32 ('97 GTS - driven to '99 WCGT Championship by Bobby Archer)
Rich
VRL #32 ('97 GTS - driven to '99 WCGT Championship by Bobby Archer)
Kleos1
Viper Owner
Great pictures, keep them coming
black08
Viper Owner
Yes...awesome pictures. Thanks for sharing!
Luke@tirerack
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Hey, Ralph glad the R6's were received in time ... looks like you put them to good use ...
P.S. let me know next time you're at Gingerman
P.S. let me know next time you're at Gingerman
AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
I so wish I had been at our event even more now.....damn work took me to Michigan!!
Adrian, first its the mini venom cup at Velocity 17 to start the year, now you guys hoard the full-size version again this year......I think we need some ringers for next year!
Regards,
Aaron
Adrian, first its the mini venom cup at Velocity 17 to start the year, now you guys hoard the full-size version again this year......I think we need some ringers for next year!
Regards,
Aaron
AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
That's better news Dave!!
Regards,
Aaron
Regards,
Aaron
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Thanks for sharing mate, I am still awaiting my ACR!Hey this is Ralph, the guy in the ACR. First of all the guy who started this post should be very careful with those news paper style headlines. That is a big statements with so little facts known to the readers.
For starters there is a reason the CompCoupe exists and that is to be the ultimate track Viper if not the ultimate turn key racer! That said the lap times between the two vipers based on different runs through out the day was roughly 2 seconds. On a 2.5 mile course of this type that is to be expected. In most of our testing the ACR is very close to the Compcoupe (non world Challenge) but it very much depends on the track. The ACR with the giant rear wing has more aero drag than the comp coupe which benifits from being a few inches shorter and has a more aero "friendly" body, not to mention light weight composite panels, no windows, no AC etc. Bob's car having the older smaller rear wing actually has the high speed straightline advantage. The banked corners at POCONO raceway mask the down force dis advantage. Even though my car had more power it was negated by all the air I am pushing around. On tighter tracks biased towards cornering the ACR has been able to get very close to the Comp coupe.
What the picture doesn't tell you is that we staged the beginning of the "race" for fun. Steve went ahead so I could learn his lines. He is an amazing driver and helped me learn this "new to me" track throughout the day. We had fun drafting each other. On one lap I got a good tow from him and actually had to lift not to run into the back of Bob's car. The Pocono track is easily one of the fastest tracks I have ever been to. We repeatedly hit 165 on the back strait...keep in mind this is right before a 130mph left that leads into a 30 mph acute left hander. The brakes on the Comp coupe and the ACR (same as the 03 and up)are simply out of this world, we did this lap after lap with zero fade. I did have comp coupe pads installed for a little more bite! Being only the second event with my car....I spent the Friday prior with the Illinios club at Gingerman 800miles away! Lets just say I was getting to know her. There is a lot of speed left in the ACR. I hadn't lowered the car all the way yet as I was street driving it all week to get the engine borken in. I also did not do a full race alignment, which is mostly camber settings. I could feel some understeer at the limit. My tire wear confirmed my lack of camber...
That aside I feel lucky to have been shown the ropes by a great driver like Steve. The best part was watching Steve dive into turn one a 150 MPH left hander at the end of the front straight. Call it small cojones or not having a cage in my car or my HANS (forgot it at home) I would breath the brakes a little sooner and go in at 146 MPH...we would later find out. Some one had a speed gun on us. Steve also would get on the gas a couple of car lengths sooner than me going on to the front straight....I chalk that up to his fantastic track knowledge and skill. On my last session of the day I found another few tenths doing the same thing.
What was clear is that the cars were very evenly match on the twisty bits, my extra power would allow me to close up noticeably powering out of corners. We were held up equally behind slower cars as he would pass one guy than I would have to deal with the same one...all the other cars were slower even some open cockpit protoype Ferraris!!!!! What I would have done for a closed track with no other cars and with Steve and I playing tag. It is rare that you feel so comfortable driving so fast so close to another driver. Steve has impeccable lines and has great track awareness so I can totally trust him.
All in all I had a blast...what was clear that day is that the NY and Jersey club guys like many of the Viper faithful are awesome, they treated me beyond great. Scotty "Wrench" kept my wheels torqued up and my tire pressures good. Nothing but love and respect for everyone. They talked me into coming to see how they roll. Trust me this wasn't easy to justify coming 600 miles from home for one day only to turn around and go back within 24 hours! But I loved every minute of it. Special thanks to Bob, Bobby, Tom and Steve!
In no way do I want this to become what you all measure the new ACR from. I am just a car guy having fun out there with some great people. Even though I have been racing and testing for over 12 years I am still an amature and a car designer not a pro! So lets leave the legend making to guys like Tommy Archer and Steve Katz!
Oh yeah one more thing...my co driver did the Challenger in not me!!!
Les Quam
Enthusiast
Lest it be lost in all of this. Skip Barber has I think the best arrive and drive race series in the country and is one of the safest places to learn to race. Race being different than lapping. The Skippy cars are very equal and when you do well its because you drove well not because you had more motor. Combine the Ship Barber race series with some Karting and you can go to any track in any car and race with most anyone at any age. The combination of Karts and Skip Barber is a tried and true method for racing skill that has been used for decades by all of todays racers.
Case in point this last Indy 500 had Ryan Hunter Reay who came in sixth I think? Who kicked my butt 10 years ago in the Skip Barber West series along with Milka Dunno who started her racing career in the Skip Barber West series finished I think 17th? Marco Andretti also raced a season or two in Skippy. Ryan came up in the shifter Kart ranks as did Marco. Jeff Simmons was also in the race who is a long time Skippy instructor and racer. Roger Yazukawas is also a Skippy race series grad. The list is endless. All of the people I mentioned use Karting to stay tuned up. Not to mention Skip Barber race series is perhaps one of the most fun things you will do your entire life.
Going fast is 10% talent and 90% getting the proper type of seat time IMHO.
Case in point this last Indy 500 had Ryan Hunter Reay who came in sixth I think? Who kicked my butt 10 years ago in the Skip Barber West series along with Milka Dunno who started her racing career in the Skip Barber West series finished I think 17th? Marco Andretti also raced a season or two in Skippy. Ryan came up in the shifter Kart ranks as did Marco. Jeff Simmons was also in the race who is a long time Skippy instructor and racer. Roger Yazukawas is also a Skippy race series grad. The list is endless. All of the people I mentioned use Karting to stay tuned up. Not to mention Skip Barber race series is perhaps one of the most fun things you will do your entire life.
Going fast is 10% talent and 90% getting the proper type of seat time IMHO.
Jerz Viper
Enthusiast
As a Skippy Graduate................I agree!
But at the end of the day, The whole ACR and Comp Coupe so called race was all about having fun!
This wasn't a heads up lets get it on and see who gets the million dollar check and the kiss from the bikini chick.
Ralph came to have fun with his brand new ACR, and Steve got another chance to demonstrate his awesome talent in Bob Carroll's CC....................period.
You can all speculate, but two fine individuals went out to have fun with two awesome Vipers on a beautiful Memorial Day Monday, which I will never forget!
Thanks Steve and Ralph!
But at the end of the day, The whole ACR and Comp Coupe so called race was all about having fun!
This wasn't a heads up lets get it on and see who gets the million dollar check and the kiss from the bikini chick.
Ralph came to have fun with his brand new ACR, and Steve got another chance to demonstrate his awesome talent in Bob Carroll's CC....................period.
You can all speculate, but two fine individuals went out to have fun with two awesome Vipers on a beautiful Memorial Day Monday, which I will never forget!
Thanks Steve and Ralph!
Dimitrios
Enthusiast
your right bobby ... its all about having fun BUT im sure the guy in the ACR which im sure is a very very nice guy, in a very very fast car, was very confident that the ACR was going to beat a CCoupe. Otherwise he wouldnt have raced the CCoupe . Im sure they went to have fun with it BUT deep deep inside you know they were giving it their all.
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bluestreak
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Actually Dimitrios, you do not have that much confidence on a new track, even if it's your second time, to be racing and beating someone in a comparable and better suited (which doesnt always mean faster) and complete race car. On top of that you dont have that type of confidence your first time in the car on said track that you dont have any experience on.
Let's also not forget, this CC had better tuned suspension, even if only the settings. It's been driven substantially and dialed in. The ACR is new so there is no way it's as dialed in as the CC.
And as mentioned before the weight/power ratios are extremely close.
CC 2900/525 = 5.52
ACR 3445/635 = 5.42
and thus the CC had the straight line advantage because of less drag. Not to mention, a car with almost 600 lbs 2900 - 3445 (545lbs) weight advantage holds a huge advantage in cornering, as the tires are less stressed. All of these various factors make a huge difference (seconds) in lap times.
I'm sorry but a .2 advantage in weight/power ratio is not enough for a street car to beat an all out race car, race cars can do more with less, because they are purpose built for that ONLY, no streetability in mind.
Let's also not forget, this CC had better tuned suspension, even if only the settings. It's been driven substantially and dialed in. The ACR is new so there is no way it's as dialed in as the CC.
And as mentioned before the weight/power ratios are extremely close.
CC 2900/525 = 5.52
ACR 3445/635 = 5.42
and thus the CC had the straight line advantage because of less drag. Not to mention, a car with almost 600 lbs 2900 - 3445 (545lbs) weight advantage holds a huge advantage in cornering, as the tires are less stressed. All of these various factors make a huge difference (seconds) in lap times.
I'm sorry but a .2 advantage in weight/power ratio is not enough for a street car to beat an all out race car, race cars can do more with less, because they are purpose built for that ONLY, no streetability in mind.
