Wayne
Enthusiast
\"CreamPuff\"
Recently new to owning a Viper
Why are the "01/02" refered to as "Cream Puff's"
?
Recently new to owning a Viper
Why are the "01/02" refered to as "Cream Puff's"
?
"CreamPuff"
- Thread starter Wayne
- Start date
Bill B
Enthusiast
Re:
Cast pistons.
Cast pistons.
dennis
Enthusiast
Re:
Someone donate a dollar to the VCA everytime this question is asked...
Someone donate a dollar to the VCA everytime this question is asked...
Hisserman
Enthusiast
Re:
Wayne --
That's cast pistons vs. forged pistons on the older cars. The forged pistons are supposed to handle mods better.
Wayne --
That's cast pistons vs. forged pistons on the older cars. The forged pistons are supposed to handle mods better.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
Re:
emissions/cost
emissions/cost
01sapphireGTS
Enthusiast
Re:
They are also lighter than forged. Other, better alloys are available than just plain cast aluminum, but... Oh well, I'm not going to spray mine or rpm it much, BUT I wish I "could".
They are also lighter than forged. Other, better alloys are available than just plain cast aluminum, but... Oh well, I'm not going to spray mine or rpm it much, BUT I wish I "could".
Russ M
Enthusiast
Re:
Lets complete the difference,
Cast pistons and a milder cam
Lets complete the difference,
Cast pistons and a milder cam
C O D Y
Enthusiast
Re:
The cast pistons have much tighter tolerances. They came in all stock '00 to '02 gen 2 vipers.
I've found that I don't burn any oil at all on my '02, but I did on both my forged vipers.
The cast pistons have much tighter tolerances. They came in all stock '00 to '02 gen 2 vipers.
I've found that I don't burn any oil at all on my '02, but I did on both my forged vipers.
C O D Y
Enthusiast
Re:
AND.... ABS, Stronger frame, Bigger brake calipers, No neutral gear rattle, More intake and exhaust cam lift, bigger (10 quart) oil pan with baffles...... just to mention a few more "differences" in the creampuffs. God, I love my creampuff.
The older non-creampuff vipers are still good cars, so don't go putting them on blocks in the front yard and parting them out just yet. You can get the frame re-welded, upgrade the small radiator fan, modify the oil pan, change the fill grade weight on the tranny, and pay around $7,000 for ABS and you can pretend you have a Creampuff.
Good day.
AND.... ABS, Stronger frame, Bigger brake calipers, No neutral gear rattle, More intake and exhaust cam lift, bigger (10 quart) oil pan with baffles...... just to mention a few more "differences" in the creampuffs. God, I love my creampuff.
The older non-creampuff vipers are still good cars, so don't go putting them on blocks in the front yard and parting them out just yet. You can get the frame re-welded, upgrade the small radiator fan, modify the oil pan, change the fill grade weight on the tranny, and pay around $7,000 for ABS and you can pretend you have a Creampuff.
Good day.
RSNAKE
Viper Owner
Re:
I know not all of that is completely accurate. '00 cars had cast pistons and a cam with less overlap than the '96-'99 GTS and the '97-'99 RT/10. However the '00 Vipers did not have ABS. I think the stronger frame issue is corrected by the 999 and 998 recalls and when done properly, not a big fix. Brake calipers I am not sure about. I would bet that they are the same. Neutral Gear Rattle (NGR) is suppose to be common in the older cars, but I have a '99 and experience none. The stock cams of all GEN II cars, creampuff or not, all have same intake and exhaust lift and duration. The only difference in the cams is the pre-creampuff cars have more overlap, which gives them a lumpier sounding idle (which some like and other don't). I am not sure about the pan size and baffles, I thought that the '99 pan size was the same as the creampuff cars, but I am not sure. The '99 has the larger radiator fan.
ABS is the only really big addition to the creampuff cars. The '99 even has the same 18" wheels and the interior trim improvements.
I know not all of that is completely accurate. '00 cars had cast pistons and a cam with less overlap than the '96-'99 GTS and the '97-'99 RT/10. However the '00 Vipers did not have ABS. I think the stronger frame issue is corrected by the 999 and 998 recalls and when done properly, not a big fix. Brake calipers I am not sure about. I would bet that they are the same. Neutral Gear Rattle (NGR) is suppose to be common in the older cars, but I have a '99 and experience none. The stock cams of all GEN II cars, creampuff or not, all have same intake and exhaust lift and duration. The only difference in the cams is the pre-creampuff cars have more overlap, which gives them a lumpier sounding idle (which some like and other don't). I am not sure about the pan size and baffles, I thought that the '99 pan size was the same as the creampuff cars, but I am not sure. The '99 has the larger radiator fan.
ABS is the only really big addition to the creampuff cars. The '99 even has the same 18" wheels and the interior trim improvements.
rcdice
Enthusiast
Re:
AND, lets not forget that yellow paint was again offered in 01 and 02, which we all know... is the fastest color.
AND, lets not forget that yellow paint was again offered in 01 and 02, which we all know... is the fastest color.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
Re:
I loved my creampuffs, "they" the later cars really fixed/addressed some real issues the early cars had and make them much more user friendly(and perform better ABS). The SRT then took this to the next level and beyond.
I loved my creampuffs, "they" the later cars really fixed/addressed some real issues the early cars had and make them much more user friendly(and perform better ABS). The SRT then took this to the next level and beyond.
ViperRay
Enthusiast
Re:
I almost didn't get my '97 because of no electric mirrors
I almost didn't get my '97 because of no electric mirrors
garolittle
Enthusiast
Re:
I concur.
AND, lets not forget that yellow paint was again offered in 01 and 02, which we all know... is the fastest color.
I concur.
99GTSACR
Viper Owner
Re:
My 99 ACR has the electric mirrors.
Creampuffs have electric mirrors.
Cudaman
My 99 ACR has the electric mirrors.
C O D Y
Enthusiast
Re:
[/QUOTE]
I know not all of that is completely accurate. '00 cars had cast pistons and a cam with less overlap than the '96-'99 GTS and the '97-'99 RT/10. However the '00 Vipers did not have ABS. I think the stronger frame issue is corrected by the 999 and 998 recalls and when done properly, not a big fix. Brake calipers I am not sure about. I would bet that they are the same. Neutral Gear Rattle (NGR) is suppose to be common in the older cars, but I have a '99 and experience none. The stock cams of all GEN II cars, creampuff or not, all have same intake and exhaust lift and duration. The only difference in the cams is the pre-creampuff cars have more overlap, which gives them a lumpier sounding idle (which some like and other don't). I am not sure about the pan size and baffles, I thought that the '99 pan size was the same as the creampuff cars, but I am not sure. The '99 has the larger radiator fan.
ABS is the only really big addition to the creampuff cars. The '99 even has the same 18" wheels and the interior trim improvements.
[/QUOTE]
I AM RIGHT!!!!! All of it is on the creampuffs, but some came on early cars and some did not. Let me break it down for you......
Cast pistons..... 2000 to 2002 and still used today.
Cam.......1996 to 1999 Overlap 66
2000 to 2002 Overlap 60
Intake and Exhaust duration...... 1996 to 1997 .541
1998 to 2002 .542 (slightly bigger)
ABS.........2001 and 2002 ONLY
Stronger Frame.2001 and 2002 need not have any recall done due to weak frames, all ...............others need re-welding, some (if not both 998 and 999)done.
2001 and 2002 brakes...........43mm calipers (Also, it's completely different, ................................not the old caliper made larger. There's an .................................additional bracket for the brake pads and it's ................................taller.)
1996 to 2000 brakes.............40mm calipers
NGR in the trannies............Factory changed the fill grade in 1998 to help ...............................stop it and later made idle changes in the engine ...............................to also help.
Oil Pans............1996 to 1999 8.5 quarts
.....................2000 to 2002 10 quarts (improved windage tray and pan)
This is a quote from one of the most knowledgeable guys in vipers about the oils pans......""New Owners" are coming out of the woodwork, with their "new" low-mile 1996.5-1999 used Vipers as their first Viper. Those who FAIL TO HEED Oil starvation warnings may be doomed to a gruesome failure in future track events, if something is not done to improve oiling. Especially urgent if you plan to run DOT slicks or true slicks. Unfortunately, numerous "lurkers" here will not post their sad experiences in this regard. Spit Happens...... rods spitting out of blocks, that is......Ive spoken to SIX+ this year alone....none posted!"
Radiator fan.......1996 to 1998 small
....................1999 to 2002 much larger fan and wind doors or made of rubber ....................and really work
I'm only listing the things I can prove, but I will also tell you I have 3 used trannies (1994, 1997, and 2001) and the internal components appear to get bigger with later years.
All of the changes happen at different times, but all are on the 2001 to 2002 creampuffs.
[/QUOTE]
I know not all of that is completely accurate. '00 cars had cast pistons and a cam with less overlap than the '96-'99 GTS and the '97-'99 RT/10. However the '00 Vipers did not have ABS. I think the stronger frame issue is corrected by the 999 and 998 recalls and when done properly, not a big fix. Brake calipers I am not sure about. I would bet that they are the same. Neutral Gear Rattle (NGR) is suppose to be common in the older cars, but I have a '99 and experience none. The stock cams of all GEN II cars, creampuff or not, all have same intake and exhaust lift and duration. The only difference in the cams is the pre-creampuff cars have more overlap, which gives them a lumpier sounding idle (which some like and other don't). I am not sure about the pan size and baffles, I thought that the '99 pan size was the same as the creampuff cars, but I am not sure. The '99 has the larger radiator fan.
ABS is the only really big addition to the creampuff cars. The '99 even has the same 18" wheels and the interior trim improvements.
[/QUOTE]
I AM RIGHT!!!!! All of it is on the creampuffs, but some came on early cars and some did not. Let me break it down for you......
Cast pistons..... 2000 to 2002 and still used today.
Cam.......1996 to 1999 Overlap 66
2000 to 2002 Overlap 60
Intake and Exhaust duration...... 1996 to 1997 .541
1998 to 2002 .542 (slightly bigger)
ABS.........2001 and 2002 ONLY
Stronger Frame.2001 and 2002 need not have any recall done due to weak frames, all ...............others need re-welding, some (if not both 998 and 999)done.
2001 and 2002 brakes...........43mm calipers (Also, it's completely different, ................................not the old caliper made larger. There's an .................................additional bracket for the brake pads and it's ................................taller.)
1996 to 2000 brakes.............40mm calipers
NGR in the trannies............Factory changed the fill grade in 1998 to help ...............................stop it and later made idle changes in the engine ...............................to also help.
Oil Pans............1996 to 1999 8.5 quarts
.....................2000 to 2002 10 quarts (improved windage tray and pan)
This is a quote from one of the most knowledgeable guys in vipers about the oils pans......""New Owners" are coming out of the woodwork, with their "new" low-mile 1996.5-1999 used Vipers as their first Viper. Those who FAIL TO HEED Oil starvation warnings may be doomed to a gruesome failure in future track events, if something is not done to improve oiling. Especially urgent if you plan to run DOT slicks or true slicks. Unfortunately, numerous "lurkers" here will not post their sad experiences in this regard. Spit Happens...... rods spitting out of blocks, that is......Ive spoken to SIX+ this year alone....none posted!"
Radiator fan.......1996 to 1998 small
....................1999 to 2002 much larger fan and wind doors or made of rubber ....................and really work
I'm only listing the things I can prove, but I will also tell you I have 3 used trannies (1994, 1997, and 2001) and the internal components appear to get bigger with later years.
All of the changes happen at different times, but all are on the 2001 to 2002 creampuffs.
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
Re:
Gotta hand it to ya Cody...Right On!!!
Dave
Gotta hand it to ya Cody...Right On!!!
Dave
C O D Y
Enthusiast
Re:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=420447&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post420485
There are strong and weak motors from every year, so saying all of any year motors are better is much like say that all of any race is _________ or that everyone born in 1975 is stronger than people born in 1979.
They all got dyno'd from the factory and left with 450 HP. However, the only dyno that means anything is a 1/4 mile long and the driver is just as important as the engine.
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=420447&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post420485
There are strong and weak motors from every year, so saying all of any year motors are better is much like say that all of any race is _________ or that everyone born in 1975 is stronger than people born in 1979.
They all got dyno'd from the factory and left with 450 HP. However, the only dyno that means anything is a 1/4 mile long and the driver is just as important as the engine.
RSNAKE
Viper Owner
Re:
I AM RIGHT!!!!! All of it is on the creampuffs, but some came on early cars and some did not. Let me break it down for you......
Cast pistons..... 2000 to 2002 and still used today.
All of the changes happen at different times, but all are on the 2001 to 2002 creampuffs.
[/QUOTE]
Great information and nice job of detailing it out by year. There are some specifics in your post that I did not know.
You are right about most things, except that you state that all of it is on the creampuffs. Most folks consider the 2000 model one of the creampuff cars and not all of it is on those.
In my opinion, the big difference is still on cast versus forged pistons and ABS versus non-ABS. The '01 and '02 cars have the best of everything except forged pistons. If you plan to add NOS or superchargers or turbos, the forged piston cars are a little nicer to start with. The '99 has nearly all of the upgrades of the creampuff cars (Except ABS, larger brakes, oil pan, and baffles) and still has forged pistons. You can still add NOS and forced induction to the cast piston cars, you just have to be more careful how and typically want to add less power. There are plenty of guys that post that have mega horsepower on cast piston cars though. Also, if you were ever really concerned with it, you could pull the motor and swap to some either factory or aftermarket forged pistons anyway.
I AM RIGHT!!!!! All of it is on the creampuffs, but some came on early cars and some did not. Let me break it down for you......
Cast pistons..... 2000 to 2002 and still used today.
All of the changes happen at different times, but all are on the 2001 to 2002 creampuffs.
[/QUOTE]
Great information and nice job of detailing it out by year. There are some specifics in your post that I did not know.
You are right about most things, except that you state that all of it is on the creampuffs. Most folks consider the 2000 model one of the creampuff cars and not all of it is on those.
In my opinion, the big difference is still on cast versus forged pistons and ABS versus non-ABS. The '01 and '02 cars have the best of everything except forged pistons. If you plan to add NOS or superchargers or turbos, the forged piston cars are a little nicer to start with. The '99 has nearly all of the upgrades of the creampuff cars (Except ABS, larger brakes, oil pan, and baffles) and still has forged pistons. You can still add NOS and forced induction to the cast piston cars, you just have to be more careful how and typically want to add less power. There are plenty of guys that post that have mega horsepower on cast piston cars though. Also, if you were ever really concerned with it, you could pull the motor and swap to some either factory or aftermarket forged pistons anyway.
2MANYTOYS
Enthusiast
Re:
LOL!
I agree with you about the fixes with the SRT.... ALTHOUGH they took a step backwards in appearance.
Cudaman
LOL!
01sapphireGTS
Enthusiast
Re:
C_O_D_Y Thanks ! ! You said a mouth full. You may need to provide bags of ice with your future posts. I know we are all friends here but some earlier models got "**** slapped". haha. - CREAMPUFFS RISE UP -
C_O_D_Y Thanks ! ! You said a mouth full. You may need to provide bags of ice with your future posts. I know we are all friends here but some earlier models got "**** slapped". haha. - CREAMPUFFS RISE UP -
Re:
My car is exactly what you are speaking of ....2001 creampuff(really an x creampuff...mine has forged pistons) Roe S/C and is a 10.0 @ 1/4 mile car at 144.5 mph with ABS and ELECTRIC mirrors and larger brakes, oil pan, and baffles.
Cudaman
My car is exactly what you are speaking of ....2001 creampuff(really an x creampuff...mine has forged pistons) Roe S/C and is a 10.0 @ 1/4 mile car at 144.5 mph with ABS and ELECTRIC mirrors and larger brakes, oil pan, and baffles.
Cudaman
