Differential failures and what to do about it.

[AviP]

I've been seeing more than one post on differential failures on the Gen III forum. Most people complain that DC does not recognize it. I suggest using the following link and if the government thinks there is sufficient reason to initiate a recall, then all you Gen III guys should be happy. The link is the Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) run by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) of the Department of Transportation (DOT). http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Please note that those who have fixed their differentials should save their receipts for potential recall claims.

Also note that I do NOT have a Gen III and if my conclusion is wrong, then ignore this post.

 

[29OUTLAW]

It's been my observation that almost all the broken diffs reported on this site are on cars with blowers. DC will make that claim to the government also.

 

[DSR207]

Quote:

"It's been my observation that almost all the broken diffs reported on this site are on cars with blowers"

Not true, 3.55s plus blower maybe but not S/C and 3.07.
Most that was reported were stock SRT when they had the failure.

 

[quick2tr]

Its hard to follow all the threads/complaints about the diff, but my cliff-note impression is as follows:

2003's and some 2004's have weak pins that have failed even at stock HP levels.

Some 2004's and 2005's have slightly stronger pins that can fail even at stock HP levels.

All 2003's through 2005's have spider gears that have been known to fail even at stock HP levels.

Some of the Mopar/aftermarket gears changes (3.55 specifically) have had the cryo hardining treatment flake off and grenade the hydro-lock.

Described behavior is loud bang followed by one or both rear wheels locking up.



(PLEASE correct if wrong, I really want to understand this issue).

 

[DSR207]

quick2tr, You are correct, That was my point, stock is not excluded...

 

[Nich0las]

Its hard to follow all the threads/complaints about the diff, but my cliff-note impression is as follows:

2003's and some 2004's have weak pins that have failed even at stock HP levels.

Some 2004's and 2005's have slightly stronger pins that can fail even at stock HP levels.

All 2003's through 2005's have spider gears that have been known to fail even at stock HP levels.

Some of the Mopar/aftermarket gears changes (3.55 specifically) have had the cryo hardining treatment flake off and grenade the hydro-lock.

Described behavior is loud bang followed by one or both rear wheels locking up.



(PLEASE correct if wrong, I really want to understand this issue).

Check with DC Performance, they take the time to polish the diff. and then harden it. Supposedly they have the fix.

 

[Kai SRT10]

According to the folks who put in my Quaife diff, Dodge is seriously considering putting in a torque biasing diff (either Quaife or Ricardo) into all the new Gen III Vipers.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't do it. Quaife's diff is stronger, has better performance, and the cost isn't that much more.

 

[29OUTLAW]

quick2tr, You are correct, That was my point, stock is not excluded...

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I have trouble remembering an owner reporting failure with stock first hand (stock gears and stock HP). It seems like reports of failure with stock HP is almost always a 2nd hand report.

 

[Vipermann]

I'm getting 3.45s with some kind of low-friction, smooth 'super finish' for racing applications ... should I worried (no blower on my car)?

 

[LW VIPER]

Would it be worth running a VCA poll on who has experienced a failure, and whether it is on 3.07, 3.55, 3.73 or some other gearing.

We should differentiate between stock motor and blower as well.

I have 3.07 stock and would like to move to 3.55 which I had with no trouble in my 96.

 

[SRTRICKY]

So everyone start complaining. I know I will without having one yet just to prevent it in the future!

 

[Viperfreak2]

What happens when a diff fails at 70mph?

 

[AviP]

What happens when a diff fails at 70mph?

Depends on how bad it fails. If somethink breaks but doesn't jam, you would just hear a loud noise followed by a grinding noise. The heat generated could lead to a fire. And the fuel tank is not far away. On the other hand, if the diff jams, the wheels would lock up and depending on your speed, it could be curtains. In either case, it is definitely a safety issue.

 

[SRTRICKY]

Okay so now am I supposed to be scared to take my Viper which is supposed to be a RACE CAR past 70mph becuase the diff. might fail? No wonder everyone has Vipers with such low millage...they're scared to drive them!

 

[NK BREKR]

Okay so now am I supposed to be scared to take my Viper which is supposed to be a RACE CAR past 70mph becuase the diff. might fail? No wonder everyone has Vipers with such low millage...they're scared to drive them!

My advice would be...just hold on tight and become one with the car

 

[SnakeEye]

Okay so now am I supposed to be scared to take my Viper which is supposed to be a RACE CAR past 70mph becuase the diff. might fail? No wonder everyone has Vipers with such low millage...they're scared to drive them!

My advice would be...just hold on tight and become one with the car

Now that's too funny - just as long as nobody gets hurt. ;~)

Some of the those that have failed may not have been the Mopar HD units???

 

[29OUTLAW]

Okay so now am I supposed to be scared to take my Viper which is supposed to be a RACE CAR past 70mph becuase the diff. might fail? No wonder everyone has Vipers with such low millage...they're scared to drive them!

If diffs are only failing beyond 70 mph, then you have to realize that the feds could easily ask you why you’re driving over the posted speed limit. That could very easily be their stance. The feds aren’t going to post a recall because Viper diffs locking up at excessive speed causes loss of control. However, that doesn’t mean that DC shouldn’t do something. It just means that the feds aren’t going to care about issues resulting from vehicles being pushed beyond limits set by the feds.

I could be wrong with everything stated above but I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Also – it’s just a reminder to anyone planning on complaining to the feds. You’re not going to have a leg to stand on if you tell them you’re car lost control while you were power shifting to 3rd at 90 mph on the freeway. Just food for thought.

 

[Viper X]

My first three diff failures were pre-Paxton. All were 3.55s that were supposedly super hard and cryo treated. All of the pinion gears ate through the hardening on the ring gears, I am told. They all "wined" loudly, but didn't blow up or lock up.

The third of the three failures was the Mopar gear set. They failed just like the first two, wining louder and louder until I finally had them changed.

The fourth set of 3.55s ate the hardening and blew up the hydrolok, i am told.

The fifth was with the Paxton - and the hydrolok case split this time. On the last two blow ups, the left rear wheel locked up at about 70 mph. No fun.

Unitrax (so Cal) is now putting Quaifes in. I'll be the first Q install, as I understand it, scheduled for Monday, May 2. The ratio will be 3.07. No more 3.55's for this boy. The Q comes with a lifetime warranty against failure, even if raced. Also, there are NO horsepower limitations.

Only one of the above failures was on DC's dime, the remainder were on me, so this is a painful subject.

I'm looking forward to keeping my car in my garage for a few consecutive weeks or even months, and the Q should be the answer.

29OUTLAW - I notice you're from the East. FYI, there are many areas of the larger western states where the speed limits are 75. Both of my "blow up" failures happened at 70. One was in 6th gear, cruising. Hydro-loks don't belong in these cars, they just can't seem to handle the torque.

 

[WANTED]

my 2003 srt/10 currently cant move! it will be 2 weeks come tuesday. the car
has 3400 miles, never raced or tracked. i was shifting from 1st to 2nd and
BAM, i heard it, clunk clunk clunk. right away i came to a light to make a left
hand turn, as i was turning and letting out the clutch the clunking really
started to get loud. when i straighten the car out and went to second it seemed
fine for about 500 feet, then it felt as though it was slipping and more clunk
clunk clunk. being 2 miles from home i decided to keep driving it, i did make
it home but when i went to back the car in the garage it sounded as if something
snapped, felt it in my back and very loud. called the dealer right away and
they couldn't work on the car until the following tuesday. the dealer did come
and pick the car up with a flat bed, towing company was great, they knew what
they were doing. so on tuesday afternoon the viper tech gets in the car which
was sitting in the service area to test drive it. i had just pulled in to the
dealership when he was returning. as he came to the garage area he had to make
a 3 point turn, when he started backing up a loud clunk and the rear wheels
locked up right in front of me. it was something to see when the wheels locked like
that. just really glad it didn't lock up when i was heading home as i had my 5
year old son with me, laughing telling me over and over again (DAD BROKE HIS CAR AR)
LOL. not funny to me at the time they had to order
a new rear and
told me it would take 3 to 5 business days to come in. they had my car towed back
to my house, which i thought was nice of them to do that and would come back to
get it when all the parts were in. dodge is covering it under the warranty and
replacing all parts with new but it ***** that i dont have my car for 3 weeks
of great spring wheather. first event i missed being able to take my car - JASON
HEFFNERS DYNO DAY, figures. well to make a long story longer, brother i feel
your pain as to not being able to drive the car because of a very poor, weak,
designed rear that just cant handle the torque this car has. i think dodge should
do something about this as alot of the srt's are having this problem and its
not IF but WHEN this happens to someone even doing 55 on a highway with traffic,
the results will not be pretty.

SO GUYS AND GIRLS - WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!!!! BESIDES TALK ABOUT IT

THE PROBLEM IS REAL - DODGE SHOULD OWN UP TO THIS AND GET A BETTER ARSS UNDER THESE
CARS.

MHO - SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE AND NOW.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Wow, I'm still waiting for my new yellow ride to be delivered from an out of town dealer, it would be nice to know if the problems are more typical than not with a brand new "stock" Viper.

I would not purposely buy a car with problems that could cause great harm to me and others while driving at normal highway speeds in the 70's.

More information from Dodge or VCA members would put my mind more at ease before the arrival of my yellow beast.

 

[DSR207]

VIPER X, How much is the Q costing you ? I have heard about $3000.00 It's my next move, just to be safe. I have been lucky so far I guess, the way I drive my Viper you'd think I'm trying to break something, I drive it really hard,and so far not one single problem...

 

[DSR207]

Sellshomes, majority of Viiper owners are happy and have no problems with the car...

 

[DEVILDOG]

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the Gen III and Gen II rear ends? My Venom is running 680 lb. ft. of torque and I run it to 5700 rpm on every shift up to 4th gear most of the time and have had zero problems. What did they change in the Gen IIIs? Just trying to understand this in case I want a new Coupe in addition to my GTS. Thanks.

 

[29OUTLAW]

29OUTLAW - I notice you're from the East. FYI, there are many areas of the larger western states where the speed limits are 75. Both of my "blow up" failures happened at 70. One was in 6th gear, cruising. Hydro-loks don't belong in these cars, they just can't seem to handle the torque.

Rest assured, I‘ve been in all 50 states. As a matter of fact, I’ve been in all 50 states at least 3 times over.

I’m aware of the “speed limit” in states like Montana.

 

[99 R/T 10]

This should have been brought up when in Bowling Green, KY at VOI-7 when ole Herb tried to take one of the new SRT's down the 1/4 mile, the rear end blew out on the starting line.

 

[TOPGON]

Obviously DC won't do anything voluntarily but reading this thread I am left with the sense the differential on my 2004 SRT with 5000 miles is ready to fail sooner than later sounds like it's not IF it's more like WHEN. What can be done preventatively to avoid this potential problem?

 

[AviP]

SO GUYS AND GIRLS - WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT !!!!!!!!!!! BESIDES TALK ABOUT IT

Well for starters, follow the link I posted at the top. Mention that it is a low volume car although I'm not sure what the government's reaction threshold is.

 

[Viper X]

Hey DSR007,

You have the number correct. 3K plus the cost of removal and installation with most diffs. The 3K depends upon the parts needed.

You want to break it, add drag radials and run the car in the 1/4 or just run it hard, it will break. You don't even have to launch hard or power shift it, I launched at 1500 rpm and "granny shifted" it and it broke.

And yes, I still like the car, I wouldn't let them buy it back. Just a little frustrated by the "bean counter" mentality / approach to the diffs in our cars. We all know they could have done better than the hyrdo-lok for this car and we all would have paid a bit more for a "no problems" diff.

Hey 29OUTLAW,

If you'd been in all 50 states as you say, you'd know that the speed limits in Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Idaho, Nevada, etc. are all at least 75 mph. Not just Montana. So why post that bull about driving over the speed limit and the "feds". These cars are supposed to be "track ready" and occasionally, I exceed 70 at the track, don't you!

 

[DEVILDOG]

Can someone explain to me what the difference is between the Gen III and Gen II rear ends? My Venom is running 680 lb. ft. of torque and I run it to 5700 rpm on every shift up to 4th gear most of the time and have had zero problems. What did they change in the Gen IIIs? Just trying to understand this in case I want a new Coupe in addition to my GTS. Thanks.

Anybody know the answer please?

 

[Skip White]

Gen 3 is called a hydrolock, and I believe it has different characteristics from the Gen 2. Cross pin failures, and several other weakness's with this unit.

Skip