engine noise! help!!

[ROYMAN]

Alright I have a bit of an emergency and I hope one of you can help me... about a week ago I took part in a charity rally and for the first time really pushed the viper hard for an extended period of time. On the way home I began to notice a rattle or banging noise at around 2000 rpm... I thought maybe something was loose as it did not affect my driving, there was no engine light, or any other reason to worry, I just kept it in a high gear and got home.

A week later the noise has gotten slightly worse, and seems to be coming from the passenger side of the engine bay. The noise will not happen until the car has warmed up, and again it only occurs around 2000 rpm until I shift. I also noticed the car is behaving strangely when I downshift in the lower gears.

So I bring it into a local dealer, and after leaving the car for a day they tell me that my bottom end is shot and I need to replace the entire thing, which is going to cost me just over $20,000. Well the car is a 2004 and is just under 20k for mileage, so I find this very hard to believe as I had the car inspected by a dodge dealer before I purchased it and they gave it a clean bill of health. I also find it very hard to believe that over 20 grand of work needs to be done when there is no smoke, no leaks, no engine light, little to no change in performance, and the car still starts and drives!

The dealership refused to take apart the engine to see what the problem was (If I am going to spend this amount of money I would like to be sure it is necessary, regardless of the labor cost) which I found even more fishy. While I am not a technician or engineer, I have a basic understanding of how an engine works, and although I am not familiar with the Vipers engine in detail, as I have only owned the car for a few months, the story the dealership was giving me was absolute BS.

Can anyone help me either pinpoint what the problem is or point me in the direction of a dealer or technician who is willing to do so for a reasonable price? I really would like to avoid spending the money I was going to put towards a TT setup on what seems to be a costly and unnecessary repair.
THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR THE HELP!
-Roy

 

[Newport Viper]

does it have a 7/70,000 warranty? some 04's did

 

[ROYMAN]

nope. I even called up national HQ (if such a thing even exists anymore), and they told me I was SOL in the warranty department.

 

[FrankBarba]

Tator's Garage "Since 1918"

 

[PaViper]

Tator's Garage "Since 1918"

Beat me to it

 

[Steve-Indy]

Could be the well known problem seen on some 2004 Vipers...where the smaller crank damper bolt used that year backs out...and various BAD things happen !!!

Call Chuck !!

 

[Smog Dog]

Easy decision---use your first life line and go with the choice of the audience---call Chuck.

Bill

 

[99 R/T 10]

Call Chuck! Chuck # is 914-763-3136

 

[Flexx91]

Could be the well known problem seen on some 2004 Vipers...where the smaller crank damper bolt used that year backs out...and various BAD things happen !!!

Call Chuck !!

If that happened, you would see and hear a lot more than just a noise coming from the engine. As someone has already mentioned, some '04's came with a 7/70 so my first step would be to see if the car is covered. It would be difficult for a repair shop to expend their resources into determining the problem without your firm committment of paying the bill. As far the inspections goes, that's more of sales gimmick because no reasonable inspection can or will catch an internal engine problem or a potential problem.

Lesson learned: Get and keep a warranty on this car (or any car) or be prepared to pay the piper - especially for a used car (assuming you bought it used).

 

[Martin]

Definitely call Chuck. If something is really bad with the engine, you might consider picking up a good low-mile salvage engine (call JonB at Partsrack) for a lot less than that. If you're extremely lucky, you'll still have warranty coverage - but if the guys at Chrysler told you that you don't, I'd be expecting to pay the bill.

 

[JonB]

The warrantee issue should be cut and dried...... It either is, or is not covered.

My first call, (after Chuck) would be to the Viper Engine Warrantee Center, aka Arrow Racing Engines. When you describe the (common) symptoms of oil starvation to Arrow, they can tell you to the close nickel what they would charge for a rebuild.

And if that breaks the budget, PartsRack will core-exchange you a take-out motor from a wreck. Call to discuss, or for Arrow ctc....

Good Luck.

PS READERS: Keep your oil level Full, I mean FULL. I do NOT mean Over-Full. Clean, Fresh oil for performance events.......

 

[10 BANGER]

The warrantee issue should be cut and dried...... It either is, or is not covered.

My first call, (after Chuck) would be to the Viper Engine Warrantee Center, aka Arrow Racing Engines. When you describe the (common) symptoms of oil starvation to Arrow, they can tell you to the close nickel what they would charge for a rebuild.

And if that breaks the budget, PartsRack will core-exchange you a take-out motor from a wreck. Call to discuss, or for Arrow ctc....

Good Luck.

PS READERS: Keep your oil level Full, I mean FULL. I do NOT mean Over-Full. Clean, Fresh oil for performance events.......[/QUOTE]

I'm a bit under a quart OVER on mine. Should i drain it?

 

[supersnake]

Before I got to carried away, I would grab a oil sample kit, ( Not sure who that would have them in your area), But any heavy equipment dealers have them. They cost here $17.00 and will tell you what is in your oil,(metal, copper, brass, or other contamination) , Then I would pull off your oil filter and cut it open and see if you can see particles in the filter, If it comes out clean with no cuttings and your Oil sample is clean, Then you can look else where, at least you have elliminated bottom end failure.

 

[ROYMAN]

Before I got to carried away, I would grab a oil sample kit, ( Not sure who that would have them in your area), But any heavy equipment dealers have them. They cost here $17.00 and will tell you what is in your oil,(metal, copper, brass, or other contamination) , Then I would pull off your oil filter and cut it open and see if you can see particles in the filter, If it comes out clean with no cuttings and your Oil sample is clean, Then you can look else where, at least you have elliminated bottom end failure.

so if there is no metal in the filter and the oil test goes well, I can assume my bottom end is ok and it is a smaller issue?
I checked the filter and there is no metal.... also, I changed the oil before I read this... I have driven the car to my grandmothers house about 2 miles from the dealership with the new oil; will this throw off the test as the oil is brand new?

 

[Smog Dog]

I take it Chuck was not in when you called today?

 

[supersnake]

so if there is no metal in the filter and the oil test goes well, I can assume my bottom end is ok and it is a smaller issue?
I checked the filter and there is no metal.... also, I changed the oil before I read this... I have driven the car to my grandmothers house about 2 miles from the dealership with the new oil; will this throw off the test as the oil is brand new?

There will probably be contamination in the new oil as well if you are having problems as there would still be a bit of residual oil in the pan if not thoroughly drained, I would still do the oil sample and have it analyzed, but chances are if you did not find anything in the filter, I would think the amount you drove it there should have been something in the filter if you are having bottom end failure.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Can you tell where on the engine the sound is coming from? Does it sound like it is deep in the engine somewhere or just under the valve cover? Pulling the valve cover for a look see would be easy. Maybe you simply have a valve train problem (broken rocker or something like it). If you do need an engine call Peter Tonelli the owner of Westboro Toyota in Westboro, MA. They were a Dodge dealer until Chrysler took their franchise. Anyway, Peter used to race a Comp Coupe in World Challenge, its still in his showroom. To support his racing effort he bought a low mileage rolled and totaled 04 (I'm pretty sure it was an 04). He still has the engine in a crate and is willing to part with it. It would be closer (no shipping) and he could probably even install it for you.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Oh, one more thing. Why not join the club? Our New England region does a lot of great events. Our annual holiday party is on 12/5.

 

[ROYMAN]

I take it Chuck was not in when you called today?

still have not called....

school comes first and I have a 60 pager to finish before tomorrow at 6pm.

that way if I manage to get a good job after this crap I can pick up a certain gift for myself in 2012... or if its fitted with an italian version of a prius engine I can add a lambo to the mix

 

[ROYMAN]

Update!!!!
So I talked to a friend who listened to the engine with some kind of engine stethoscope... he said there was a possibility I had a stuck valve. He pinpointed the issue to the drivers side of the engine, towards the cockpit rather than the front of the car. He recommended I try this stuff called engine honey, add it to the engine and drive a few hundred miles, and change my oil again. After two days I drove less than 50 miles and the engine noise is almost completely gone! It only remains in 1st and 2nd, still around 2k rpm, and I can barely hear it! If my window is up and the music is on, I really don't even notice it anymore.

Does everyone think its safe to keep driving the car, or should I have someone take that in depth look at the engine that I thought was necessary from the beginning?
This whole scenario is pretty weird, and I really don't know what to make of it or where to go from here.

 

[ViperGTS]

Again. Chuck. Call him...

 

[DLTARNU]

Call Chuck Tator.

Alternatively, you can do the following:

1) Continue to ignore advice from the board.
2) Wait a few days, ask again, and get the same response.

 

[SnakeEye]

Call Chuck Tator.

Alternatively, you can do the following:

1) Continue to ignore advice from the board.
2) Wait a few days, ask again, and get the same response.

 

[plumcrazy]

Call Chuck Tator.

Alternatively, you can do the following:

1) Continue to ignore advice from the board.
2) Wait a few days, ask again, and get the same response.

ya beat me to it. and you said it much nicer.

 

[Fatboy 18]

If.... Your engine drops a valve or something brakes, you best have a credit card handy cos it will be expensive.

Its honestly up to you but we are only trying to help and there are a lot of people on here with plenty of experience

I would not hesitate to phone Chuck (and im in the uk).

Personally I would not be happy driving my car around knowing I had a problem.

But its up to you

Mark

 

[ROYMAN]

gah fine Im calling him tomorrow.
Don't be so harsh on a very busy noob.

 

[plumcrazy]

dont assume you are any busier than the guys you asked for help

tell us how ya make out

 

[ROYMAN]

so I finally called....
Chuck is a great guy, and gave me the best answer regarding the noise issue so far. Put 500 miles on it, conservative driving, and change the oil. see what happens. after putting some mileage on it, I can smell the additive a little which is strange to me, but the noise that originally had quieted a little is returning. My clutch is also acting funny in first; it is very difficult to put it into first from neutral sometimes, and I am experiencing a strange, almost grinding noise with a little jolting that seems to be coming from the rear... well the clutch and all components that I had the dealer put in are all under warrantee, so if that goes downhill I am all set.
Chuck thought the issue was a valve lifter problem as the car is not making idle noise. I was in a rush and did not talk to him as much as I wanted to at the time, so I really don't know what to do next. If a valve lifter is the issue, can't I just remove the valve cover and go from there, or is this going to be more extensive than I thought? Any thoughts on how to deal with this issue?
Thanks for the help guys. now back to studying for finals.
-Roy