Explain rear gear change and dyno effect?

phiebert

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I'm thinking of dyno'ing my RT/10 again soon because I think I have a better working NOS system than I had the last time I dyno'd. But I have 3.55 rear gears instead of the stock 3.07. When I dyno they run it in 4th which is the 1:1 ratio right. But doesn't changing the rear end make a difference to the ratio? If you turn the engine over one revolution on a stock Viper in 4th gear, the tire should move around one full rotation right? If you then change the rear end to a shorter gear you won't get a full rotation of the tire on the dyno in 4th right? So doesn't that affect the dyno? Wouldn't it be just like running in third versus fourth on the dyno?
 

Jack B

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The only effect you will see are some minor losses with the shorter gear. You will also see different mph relative to earlier pulls with stock gears
 
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phiebert

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You should add 3-5% to your 3.55 dyno as the numbers will be lower than with 3.07s

Is there a formula based on the gear change? Why 3 to 5%? Is that related to the change from 3.07 to 3.55s? Just curious!
 

Jack B

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I would like to offer another scenario, 3-5% is too high. Here are some logical assertions from a previous post of mine:

"An observation - I had a viper t56 on the bench and turned the input shaft by hand in all the gears. There is a substantial difference in the amount of force required to rotate the shaft between the different gears. At higher rpm's the those differences have to show up on the dyno. Although not the differential, there should be some correlation to changing the rear-end ratio and a comparison between different transmission gears.

On the dyno there is no doubt that there would be a recordable difference if you dyno'ed with a transmission gear numerically lower than fourth. On the other hand using a gear higher than fourth would put undue stress on the driveline. For those that start their dyno runs at much lower than 3000 make sure you don't stand to close to the car.

Losses of 15% are real world in a car with half-shafts. If you a assume a max loss of 4% beyond the rear-end, that leaves 11% losses in the transmission, drive shaft and rear end. The 3.55 gears require a 14% increase in rpm's to offset the change in ratio to obtain the same speed. There are going to be some fixed losses that do not change with rpm, therefore, the max additional losses would be 14% of 11%, or 7 hp. Understanding that there are fixed losses the net change on a dyno should result in something less than 7 hp, probably in the 3-5 hp range."
 

Ulysses

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The 1:1 gear is the number of revs of the engine relative to the output of the transmission. For a stock car, one rotation of the crank does not equal one rotation of the tire, but is equal to one rotation of the drive shaft. The rear end gear affects the the number of rotations the drive shaft (output of transmission) has relative to the tire. Stock 3.07 is 3.07 turns of the drive shaft to one rotation of the tire. 3.55 gear is 3.55 turns of the drive shaft to one rotation of the tire.

The dyno doesn't care about the change in gearing and only concerns itself with engine torque. Theoretically, a change in gear will not affect the engine torque number, however there will be a miniscule loss from the change due to physical forces, but not enough to really make a big difference.
 

Diablo Joe

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Thats backwards.3.07:1 means for every once the driveshaft turns the rear wheels turn 3.07 times hence worse traction when upgrading to 3.55 gears as the wheels are turning more.

A dyno can be affected by so many different ways I would believe the gear swap to be negligable(sp) You can alter the smoothing,tire placement on the drum,even contact patch of the tire and manipulate your dyno.Try bolting on a couple of spare tires to the rear and dynoing,It will show a nice increase in power.

Joe

Joe
 

Ulysses

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Well, maybe a picture will help my explanation.

You must be registered for see images
The pinion is driven by the drive shaft, the ring drives the wheels. The pinion teeth mesh with the ring teeth and the pinion drives the ring. Since the circumference of the pinion is smaller than the ring, the pinion will rotate more times than the ring in a given rotation of the ring.

Traction is affected with higher numbered gears because the amount of torque to the ground is greater (multiplied up).
 

99 R/T 10

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Thats backwards.3.07:1 means for every once the driveshaft turns the rear wheels turn 3.07 times hence worse traction when upgrading to 3.55 gears as the wheels are turning more.

A dyno can be affected by so many different ways I would believe the gear swap to be negligable(sp) You can alter the smoothing,tire placement on the drum,even contact patch of the tire and manipulate your dyno.Try bolting on a couple of spare tires to the rear and dynoing,It will show a nice increase in power.

Joe

Joe

Um, yeah. Joe, re-read your post. Ulysses is correct and your explanation is wrong.
 

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